My journey back to square 1

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 16, 2011

Update- $32.77 on Full Tilt.

Starting to run better, things looking more on the up and up.

Going with an idea of Mr.Monkey's i'm creating myself a list of goals for the week.

Bankroll - $32.77

Goal - To reach $100 by Sunday 2/20/11

Method - $1 and $2 6max sng's only (exclusion is occasionally some late night cash games)

Simple enough, not going to delve to deep just yet

Aldito · Feb 16, 2011

-Phil Ivey27 said:
Update- $32.77 on Full Tilt.

Starting to run better, things looking more on the up and up.

Going with an idea of Mr.Monkey's i'm creating myself a list of goals for the week.

Bankroll - $32.77

Goal - To reach $100 by Sunday 2/20/11

Method - $1 and $2 6max sng's only (exclusion is occasionally some late night cash games)

Simple enough, not going to delve to deep just yet

The rake on the $1,20s makes them so unprofitable, but they're all you're rolled for if you don't redeposit. You aren't rolled for the $2,25s so you'll be posting again in the next couple of days saying you lost it all once more.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 16, 2011

Aldito said:
The rake on the $1,20s makes them so unprofitable, but they're all you're rolled for if you don't redeposit. You aren't rolled for the $2,25s so you'll be posting again in the next couple of days saying you lost it all once more.

Well yes I might play a few $2 6max's but these are only because I am in red with my BR and you are right the $1 games have too much rake.

But i'll make a bet with you if you want that i'll hit $100 and won't bust

mrmonkey · Feb 17, 2011

Poker Orifice said:
I'm curious, you really seem to know why playchip tables are so worth playing... that there's something to be gained by playing them. What exactly is your experience on 'real money' tables? I mean... what are you comparing it to.. to know the difference?

While I don't agree with the way Liveone berated OP and I also think OP probably doesn't necessarily need to use playchips to gain BRM discipline, I am also an advocate of play chips teaching people how to play poker and play it right without the need for investing real money.

On the flip side of this question Poker Orifice, how much experience do you have playing the highest levels of play chips?

I know people love to trash play chips, and I agree that the lowest levels are just absolutely full of shovetards and are hard to learn much from... but the highest levels of playchip cash games are actually sometimes pretty close to what you will find from 2nl-25nlhe and 2-25plo, in my experience.

In any case, I've played on some 25nl tables that were worse than the best playchip tables, and obviously some 25nl tables are loaded with regs that no playchip table can ever represent. However, one can learn quite a bit from playchips that I don't think people who haven't spent plenty of time there realize.

BigJamo · Feb 17, 2011

Gday, I have also previously posted about having zero dollars, and where to get started.

I started with my regional tourney (Australian Freeroll), yeah it might take a will but, it pays $2 for the top 27 players, and $3 and up for Final Table. I had a few good tourneys over a couple of weeks, and ended up with $11.

So ... now I was set. I started playing microstakes in Ring Games (1-2c), and dabbled in a few Rush Poker sessions, (that was a bad idea at the time).

Since then, my bankroll got upto $97, Im now at $78, and going through a real dry spell, so at the moment im playing my bad run in Freeroll, thats just until the bad run is over, then its time to hit the cash games again.

Another way to build early Bankroll is $1.10 Sit-N-Go, 90 seat, Double stack, it pays top 18, which is better odds than most tourneys at 20% of players getting paid.

Otherwise, all I can say is that you seem to know what you want, and also know how to go about it, so, I hope all goes well with, and keep us informed, cause I too was one of the Bankrupt.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 17, 2011

Yes I like those 90 man super stacks but they take like 3 hours to play out and take forever to fill up.

Liveone1 · Feb 17, 2011

-Phil Ivey27 said:
What advice am I not taking and where am I crying?

If you ask me I was updating the thread..

Didn't like how you flushed your roll after building it when you were staked and said "non of this is my fault" after flushing it when you could've easily moved down and prevented the entire situation. I've done the same thing, but took accountability.

Honestly though, not still talkin crap about you. I took a shot early and it's over. I was just responing to orfice.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 17, 2011

Wait when did I say none of this is my fault?!

Liveone1 · Feb 17, 2011

Poker Orifice said:
Liveone
You're on here suggesting that others are failing to interpret what you're saying.... but you are actually doing this yourself. (please... try not to put words in my mouth.. tks)

Sure. What you described and have experienced is the very definition of playing with scared money and we all know that's a no no.

Wrong ^. What I've suggested is > they will tend to have a desire to practise BankrollManagement.

^ wrong, that's what you meant to suggest, but either way it's backwards. When your motivation to exercise BRM is not to lose (as you clearly stated and did mean to suggest) your precious freeroll winnings and that is the foundation for someone trying to "practice bankroll management" that is playing with scared money dude. It's impossible not to think about the money and focus exclusively on the game and play to win as is required to win. That type of motivation is improper if your looking to excel at the game.

To truly practice BRM you need to have an adequate BR that provides a cusion for you to survive the variance that may set in so that you can play the game correctly at all times and utilize aggression when necessary. Though I have built a nice tiny roll myself up from $4 a few times, before dumping it, a small $20 deposit isn't enough to rely on for most as volume is the key to maintaining your sanity while grinding away at 2NL (and making it worthwhile) as variance can be vicious with high volume (even low volume) and playing correctly.

all a bonus and you won't care about the money (you're big on that right?)

You've misinterpretted me on this ^ here too. I'm big on > play the game, make the best decisions at any given time.. 'forget about the money' ('forget about the money' isn't suggesting 'to not care about the money'... I'm saying "don't focus on the money".... focus on the game & how you're playing it, period!).

How did I misinterpret you? That's exactly what my point was, and I agree with you. Difference is, I took your train of thought and tried to show you how it applies to everything I've said in regards to building a bankroll from play money and that it actually drives home why it's worth while, though you don't realize it. I didn't twist anything, you simply refuse to see things any other way.

Also, now that you mention it, I see it better to neither care about nor focus on the money. Don't care about the money, don't focus on the money, whats the difference anyway? Wouldn't it be better to do both even if there were a difference when your at the tables? What are you trying to prove here?

I don't think you realize how all your philosophies dismissing play money are actually reason to embrace it. Nothing is being twisted or misinterpreted. Understand that with a free bankroll, thanks to play chips, the principle you just reinforced is easier to implement. You know, don't focus on the money and focus on the game. That's what I meant when I said all your winnings earned from a BR built from play money are a bonus and provide you with a mental edge (focus on the game, not the money). I thought I made that clear in my last post, but...

"learn how the software works" if that's how you'd like to interpret it.Really though, you learn how to deal with variance and your mind is forced to understand that the site isn't rigged to have some type of vendetta against you when you deposit. Thus forcing you to take accountability for your wins/losses at the table

You've really twisted another one of my quotes here. My saying that playchip tables are maybe good for 'learn how the software works'... is a reference to > learn how the bet slider is set up, learn how the table action works, learn how the timer works, player action, table setup, etc. etc. NOTHING about how the cards fall & whether or not it's about getting used to variance instead of some myths about 'rigged beliefs'.. or wherever you've gone with this one (somewhere out in left field from what I've read.. I mean "learn how the software works" gets twisted into 'variance & it's not rigged & learn how to deal with it.. don't blame it on site.. or some other bs... whoa, lol).

^ Yes, I'll admit I did inadvertently twist this one around. I'm glad I did though because that "bs" I got out of your quote applies to some of the many benefits of building a roll from play chips and shouldn't go unnoticed.

then no one should ever play at 2NL 5NL 10NL because they would have to unlearn it when they moved up to 100NL, 200Nl, etc

This isn't true. One can gain an understanding of the game & get a foundation in the basics while playing on 5nl & 10nl tables. Sure it's mostly ABC poker but there are plenty of players grinding out those tables who play fairly decently (meaning, a complete noob with limited knowledge/experience will likely have their ass handed to them if they just immed. start out playing 10nl). I believe that playing 10,000+ hands at 10nl would be solid advice for anyone with aspirations of moving up to be playing 100nl.

Yes, what I said does hold true. And dude, like an editor at a newspaper, you quoted me out of context and partially at that. I touched on everything you said in this paragraph, in your version of my quote, and exclaimed that as you move up you will obviously have to improve as there is something new to learn at each limit. In other words, I agree with what you just said, but disagree with how you refuse to acknowledge that the same principle applies to play money with the added mental benefit of playing the free money once you move up to 2Nl 5Nl 1000NL and the play improves and you're rewarded accordingly.

I'll repeat myself for you and say that moving up from play chips to 2Nl would require minimal adjustments if any at all and you will have gained a free bankroll and mental advantage from it as a bonus along with an understanding of variance so that when it hits you keep your cool. Again, to move up away from the play money tables as quickly as possible, as quickly as possible, as quickly as possible, as quickly as possible with an $80 BR, $80 BR, $80 BR in only 2 weeks, 2 weeks, 2 weeks, 2 weeks along with the understanding of variance you gain along the way you will need to play and maintain a fundamentally sound ABC poker game. Peroid. There's no other way.

This is because you view play money to be a waste of time and allow it to affect your game. The problem is your own.

What???

What's so hard to understand about that response? I didn't use any big words. I'll try to break it down for you further. You said that when you play at play money tables you can't play your A game and start playing badly. You spew chips, play bad cards and chase cards. Well, that is because you think that you are wasting your time playing with play money. So, naturally you will not take the game seriously and start playing like a fish because you don't see any means to an end, thus you can't respect it. Thus, it affects your game. That is your own issue and you should not assume that because you have a problem maintaining discipline while playing with play chips others will suffer the same fate and try to deter anyone from considering this route to a free bankroll in a timely fashion as an option.

I'm curious, you really seem to know why playchip tables are so worth playing... that there's something to be gained by playing them. What exactly is your experience on 'real money' tables? I mean... what are you comparing it to.. to know the difference?

Well, I'm actually a winning player at the micro levels and my win rate used to be triple what it is now at 2NL, but since I've started playing again I hadn't been taking it seriously though I will once I get this roll going. I'm rededicating myself to the game. Anyway, my problem with the game happened to be variance. I started to feel as though the site is rigged against me so that I can redeposit, even though I know it isn't true, and start to force my winnings. That causes me to move up, when I should be moving down, and moving down when it's too late and then chasing the memory of what once was as I look at my tiny BR in comparison to what it used to be and proceed to flush my roll. I figured out the solution to this, play money (I'll be proving this in a thread when I get the roll going as I grind it out once again, critique will be encouraged) and I explained the reasoning behind my support of play chips in my first post in this thread. This is what drew me to OP's thread in the first place as he is the exact same in this instance. IMO, he was on the right track until someone staked him. It's easy to take the easy way out while if something is worthwhile it tends to require more effort.

(ps.. this will be my last response, my last question.. cuz really... me spending time responding to your responses on here is probably worse than spending time on playchip tables). I guess I just don't like being quoted & then reading after how the perception of what I've stated is so very different from what I was saying.

Yea, that's why

Anyways, GL PhilIvey!! Keep on grinding away!

^^^

Liveone1 · Feb 17, 2011

-Phil Ivey27 said:
Wait when did I say none of this is my fault?!

As soon as you flushed your roll and redeposited and went down from $10 to $2. It's not that serious dude, lol.

On a side note, I'm glad things are going well for you and hope it continues and you hit your goal in 3 days from now.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 19, 2011

Update is this- yesterday a friend of mine told me that he plays at Absolute poker and that the players there are some of the fishiest players he's ever seen, all the way up to 50NL. I was grinding on FT and PS and just breaking even and decided to transfer it over to AB and give it a shot.

Transferred over $35 early yesterday, now am at $97.62. A few $'s away from my goal by Sunday! ($100)

matt0216 · Feb 19, 2011

Nice Job, keep grinding away.

Just wondering, how are you doing with BRM? Are you following it, or are you taking some shots you probably shouldn't be.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 19, 2011

matt0216 said:
Nice Job, keep grinding away.

Just wondering, how are you doing with BRM? Are you following it, or are you taking some shots you probably shouldn't be.

FOLLOWING lol

matt0216 · Feb 19, 2011

Lol, that's good to hear

jjbish · Feb 20, 2011

-Phil Ivey27 said:
Update is this- yesterday a friend of mine told me that he plays at Absolute poker and that the players there are some of the fishiest players he's ever seen, all the way up to 50NL. I was grinding on FT and PS and just breaking even and decided to transfer it over to AB and give it a shot.

Transferred over $35 early yesterday, now am at $97.62. A few $'s away from my goal by Sunday! ($100)

Here's a hint. DON'T tell people where the fish are, or the fish will be caught and gone. I guess I thought this was obvious, but guess not.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 20, 2011

jjbish said:
Here's a hint. DON'T tell people where the fish are, or the fish will be caught and gone. I guess I thought this was obvious, but guess not.

This is a forum and we share things here lol

Another tip would be - don't give away your strategy on here because they'll come and find you and exploit it!

I'm pretty ok with sharing this type of information in this thread.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 20, 2011

In before the end of Sunday!

Bankroll at AP- $110.43

Reached my goal and then some! Looks like I have a substantial BR to work with again! AP doesn't have 5NL so I might just be sticking to some sit and go's for awhile before I hit up 10NL.

P.S. They have 10NL HU tables! Woooooo, HU = best game.

gnk2727 · Feb 21, 2011

-Phil Ivey27 said:
In before the end of Sunday!

Bankroll at Absolute Poker- $110.43

Reached my goal and then some! Looks like I have a substantial BR to work with again! Absolute Poker doesn't have 5NL so I might just be sticking to some sit and go's for awhile before I hit up 10NL.

P.S. They have 10NL HU tables! Woooooo, HU = best game.

Glad to hear you're having some luck rebuilding your bankroll. My rakeback deposit was almost $80 on Friday and I managed to take bad beat after bad beat and suckout after suckout all the way down to $3. I then said eff it and took my whole roll to the .5/.10 SS tables and got it to $10. Then I split that amongst four .2/.5 SS tables and got it up to almost $25. I know its not proper bankroll management but Im at the point now with all the sick beats that I'm willing to risk it all to get it to a decent amount so I can play the games I want to play again.

Not to mention I'll need a decent roll to maintain my Iron Man status in March or all the time and effort I put in January and February to get Silver status will be tossed out the window.

If I end up having to deposit again I'm ok with that. Considering in almost 4 years of playing on FTP I only deposited $100 this January and back in 2009 I ran freeroll winnings up to almost $3k playing NL25 6max. I know I got the skill, I just gotta minimize my losses on the days my game isn't up to par and maximize my winnings on days when I can't be beat.

I have a dream that one day I'll be able to play poker full time and make a better life for my family and me. Until then I just gotta keep grinding it out.

gtrippp · Feb 21, 2011

jjbish said:
To give you a lil hope maybe?

I started with $0 and gained my initial BR the old fashioned freeroll way back when it wasn't quite as daunting. From there I have had 4 "real" BR's playing over rolled as hi as 2-4 plo. Each time I've had to cash it out due to life happens. But each time I had $5 to $ 25 left and started over. in fact now I'm at the micro's again . But if I want to continue to play I have to grow it myself.

As sickening, and disheartening, as it is. It happens! You are not the first or the last. But have you learned the way so that it is "your" last time?

I will spot you $10 on stars to get you going again if you PM me your stars name and city ( as long as you have a clean history. hate to get my acct closed, just being safe). And you show you will be smart with it.

BUT I expect $10 back in the future after you have rebuilt your roll. Nothing is free

that's really nice of u! still, i don't see the point. it sounds as tho he has money if he wants 2 deposit, but he just doesn't want 2 cuz he wastes it when he has it. why would u want him 2 waste YOUR money that u played smart poker 2 earn?
as 4 philivey27, there are so many ways 2 build a bankroll now. my fav being the private freerolls 4 certain forums like this one. i suggest avoiding any site that requires u 2 do a "survey" tho. the 25 cent sng's on pokerstars are pretty gud bankroll builders 2.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 21, 2011

gnk2727 said:
Glad to hear you're having some luck rebuilding your bankroll. My rakeback deposit was almost $80 on Friday and I managed to take bad beat after bad beat and suckout after suckout all the way down to $3. I then said eff it and took my whole roll to the .5/.10 SS tables and got it to $10. Then I split that amongst four .2/.5 SS tables and got it up to almost $25. I know its not proper bankroll management but Im at the point now with all the sick beats that I'm willing to risk it all to get it to a decent amount so I can play the games I want to play again.

Not to mention I'll need a decent roll to maintain my Iron Man status in March or all the time and effort I put in January and February to get Silver status will be tossed out the window.

If I end up having to deposit again I'm ok with that. Considering in almost 4 years of playing on FTP I only deposited $100 this January and back in 2009 I ran freeroll winnings up to almost $3k playing NL25 6max. I know I got the skill, I just gotta minimize my losses on the days my game isn't up to par and maximize my winnings on days when I can't be beat.

I have a dream that one day I'll be able to play poker full time and make a better life for my family and me. Until then I just gotta keep grinding it out.

Yeah dude sounds like you're on the right track for getting somewhere in poker, just keep playing and working on your game. GL with your current BR/deposit. Update how it goes.

gnk2727 · Feb 21, 2011

-Phil Ivey27 said:
Yeah dude sounds like you're on the right track for getting somewhere in poker, just keep playing and working on your game. GL with your current BR/deposit. Update how it goes.

Well here's an update:

Got it up to about $33 earlier today before getting rivered and sucked out about 6-7 times for my whole stack due to the donkey's getting super lucky. My favorite loss today was a hand where I had AA and limped in UTG in .5/.10 and UTG +2 made it .45 to go, UTG +3 shoved his whole stack for about $3 and I was licking my chops after everyone else folded. The only problem was that when I shoved my $7 UTG +2 decided to call me off with A6 suited. He rivered a flush. You can imagine my frustrations right now.

I know I'm playing well and this is evidenced by my +EV line in Pokertracker 3 being way way higher than my actual amount won. It's been like this for days probably a little more than a week now and it's not just cash games it's tournaments and pretty much anything I play.

I guess it's good to know that I've been really unlucky but I'm not gonna let it get to me. I'm gonna take 3 buyins of NL200 to the casino on Friday night and take the chance I've been wanting to take ever since I started playing poker almost 4 years ago.

-Phil Ivey27 · Feb 21, 2011

$1/$2 live is SUPER weak from what I've heard.

2NL online is ten times harder lol

gnk2727 · Feb 21, 2011

-Phil Ivey27 said:
$1/$2 live is SUPER weak from what I've heard.

2NL online is ten times harder lol

I last played live about 3 years ago at that same casino. I wasn't very good then and I lost my buyin when I flopped trip 7's and got rivered by a straight. The action should be very good there and from what I remember it was very fishy with a few regulars. It's a very good poker room though (The Horsheshoe in Indiana) and there are some regulars there but I'm not in the least bit scared. I probably play the same amount if not more hands than those guys do because I play online alot.

There are sure to be lots of fish, I hope to capitalize on some of them and walk out with 2-3x my buyin.

BigJamo · Feb 22, 2011

WTG Phil, Thought Id check back and see how you are getting alone.

Sounds like you got out of that hole, good to hear.

Dont play at Absolute Poker, but sounds like it a decent enough place to keep you out of trouble.

KEEP US UP-TO-DATE.

Aldito · Feb 23, 2011

gnk2727 said:
all the way down to $3. I then said eff it and took my whole roll to the .5/.10 SS tables and got it to $10. Then I split that amongst four .2/.5 SS tables and got it up to almost $25.

gnk2727 said:
Got it up to about $33 earlier today....limped in UTG in .5/.10

gnk2727 said:
I'm gonna take 3 buyins of NL200 to the casino on Friday night and take the chance I've been wanting to take ever since I started playing poker almost 4 years ago.

LOL

So jumping from 5NL and 10NL, straight to 200NL...hmm seems like a foolproof strategy lmao.

:cheers:

My journey back to square 1

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

Aldito

Legend

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

mrmonkey

Visionary

BigJamo

Aussie Elite

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

Liveone1

Rock Star

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

Liveone1

Rock Star

Liveone1

Rock Star

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

matt0216

Visionary

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

matt0216

Visionary

jjbish

Enthusiast

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

gnk2727

Rock Star

gtrippp

Enthusiast

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

gnk2727

Rock Star

-Phil Ivey27

Visionary

gnk2727

Rock Star

BigJamo

Aussie Elite

Aldito

Legend

About CardsChat

Our Community

Our Site