Lets Talk About LUCK !!!

YKCaiTLH1314 said:

Gambler depend on luck to win.
Poker player use skill and strategy to cancel the luck on gambler.

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desagree.. not always estrategy works, luck always works--- it change constantly thats the secret..

thetzarofpoker said:

desagree.. not always estrategy works, luck always works--- it change constantly thats the secret..

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Disagree.
Gambler blame on luck when they lose.
Poker player blame themselves and improve.
Nobody can improve on luck but you can improve on skill.


You quoted earlier on AA losing to 29.
Run the board 1000 times.
The 29 gambler won't even make it to the 100th dealing.

Luck is an undeniably important thing in poker, but not crucial. I think the experience and skills of the player are more important than luck.

my luck is around the corner, watching and laughing

when luck is not on my side. I play games of reduced variance which essentially consists of no longer playing flipet to have the goal of going to the showdown. It allows me to survive while waiting to see if luck will turn. but in the opposite case it is the loss to insure because at some moments of the game. You're forced to play flips. Personally this week she did not give me any gifts. I lost with all my AA KK and all the good hands that can go through your mind. but I know that in the long run it's normal. So I'm just trying to play my A game and get ready because I think doyle bronson was right when he said luck is what happens when preparation meets the opportunity.

Hello,

Luck is such a mystical force that splits, multiples, stretches goes and comes from a poker table. It can work very well or it can make you want to disappear when you fould a hand that hits full house on the river.
That's why I think you should pay attention, focuse and play chips smart. You never know when luck desides to blast your hand..

kraemer said:

But playing well guarantees that you receive the best result possible with the amount of luck you have.

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Agree with your post in general but this last sentence I take issue with. Since we can never know in advance how much luck we will have, playing well does not guarantee the best possible result. You can make terrible plays where you should have folded or should not have bluffed or called and instead end up winning tons of pots you had no business even being in. I would agree that playing well allows you to be more profitable without having to get lucky, but not that it has any correlation to results in a single hand or even a single session. We've all seen sessions where the fish hits every draw and runs up a huge stack playing horribly. If they made the correct calls and folds they would not have had to get lucky but they also would not have all those chips in front of them when they did get lucky. Double edged sword.

YKCaiTLH1314 said:

Disagree.
Gambler blame on luck when they lose.
Poker player blame themselves and improve.
Nobody can improve on luck but you can improve on skill.


You quoted earlier on AA losing to 29.
Run the board 1000 times.
The 29 gambler won't even make it to the 100th dealing.

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It`s not about improve luck, it`s about improving your beheibor when you are constantly losing goods an well played hands.. player`s actitud can call or call of luck.. well on my experience..

YKCaiTLH1314 said:

Disagree.
Gambler blame on luck when they lose.
Poker player blame themselves and improve.
Nobody can improve on luck but you can improve on skill.


You quoted earlier on AA losing to 29.
Run the board 1000 times.
The 29 gambler won't even make it to the 100th dealing.

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There is not a poker player here that wouldn't want AA VS 29. If I lose that hand, it is not good or bad luck. I'll take the odds over a the occasional suck out.

MrPokerVerse said:

Luck is a by-product of hard work. Winning consistently has nothing to do with luck. Might get a hand here or there, everyone does, you wont find success there though.

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You're talking about skill, it has nothing to do with luck.

Luck is nothing but art. Some people stare at art objects and see some painting or sculpture and have no special feelings about it, others observe art objects and see a miracle.

Everyone is lucky, the fact that we've been born is obvious act of luck. Some people are simply not using their luck to create new opportunities to get even more lucky. Confucius said " the journey of 1000 miles begins with a small step" so sometimes we have "to walk 1000 miles" to meet our luck, but quite often majority of people are too lazy or too scared to make the first step or they even walk in the wrong direction. There are 2 major ways to meet your luck: 1) to clearly see where you're going to 2) to try and walk as many ways as possible.

c0rnBr34d said:

Agree with your post in general but this last sentence I take issue with. Since we can never know in advance how much luck we will have, playing well does not guarantee the best possible result. You can make terrible plays where you should have folded or should not have bluffed or called and instead end up winning tons of pots you had no business even being in. I would agree that playing well allows you to be more profitable without having to get lucky, but not that it has any correlation to results in a single hand or even a single session. We've all seen sessions where the fish hits every draw and runs up a huge stack playing horribly. If they made the correct calls and folds they would not have had to get lucky but they also would not have all those chips in front of them when they did get lucky. Double edged sword.

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Not looking for a single hand or a session to gauge anything. If the less skilled players didn't stack off with the worse hand, they would never deposit again. Being ahead on a hand and losing it for me is odds, not luck. Getting in ahead is the win, regardless of the results.

thetzarofpoker said:

In my opinion having Luck is Essential to be a winner, lets talk about experiences, definitions, ways to call it, and ways to deal and manage it.. :icon_cycl

I think this could be very interesting and we can try others people methods they share..

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ive said it before but i will say it again, and im quoting kevin martin on this, im sure he heard it somewhere. "In the short term poker is all about luck, in the long term it is all about skill." i find this to be so accurate, like to win a tourney or have a winning session you have to have skill to be patient and pick your spots, but i find every session or trourney there is maybe 1 hand where i get lucky and crack aces, or outflop AK.

finaltable1 said:

You're talking about skill, it has nothing to do with luck.

Luck is nothing but art. Some people stare at art objects and see some painting or sculpture and have no special feelings about it, others observe art objects and see a miracle.

Everyone is lucky, the fact that we've been born is obvious act of luck. Some people are simply not using their luck to create new opportunities to get even more lucky. Confucius said " the journey of 1000 miles begins with a small step" so sometimes we have "to walk 1000 miles" to meet our luck, but quite often majority of people are too lazy or too scared to make the first step or they even walk in the wrong direction. There are 2 major ways to meet your luck: 1) to clearly see where you're going to 2) to try and walk as many ways as possible.

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Seems like Confucius was a fan of hard work. That or they enjoyed walking.

Skill and luck are brothers, skill needs hard work, luck needs skill to wait your time.

If you rely on luck to win, I have to assume your poker skills are not very good. Luck can swing either way, skill is knowing how and when to capitalize on luck and knowing when to walk away if your luck takes a turn. Even knowing how to stay in the game when your luck is bad without going broke.

thetzarofpoker said:

It`s not about improve luck, it`s about improving your beheibor when you are constantly losing goods an well played hands.. player`s actitud can call or call of luck.. well on my experience..

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Exactly why i mentioned earlier about skill and 'Strategy'.
If you aren't good enough to deal with villain cracking your Aces with 29, then you need to improve on your Anti-tilt strategy.
What makes the differences between me and Daniel Negreanu is;
He is better in skill
He is better in strategy
He is better to handle bad beat
He is better bankrolled
He is better in exposure with years of experience

Now, when you have the above 5 mentioned, then you talk about LUCK to win a tournament.
If you are depending on pure luck to win without any of these 5 elements, you are like dumping your money into the vast sea.
In fact, you'll have a better chance of winning with playing slot machine, better payout than poker at least.

Edited:
Forgot to mention this. If there's a chance for me to play with Daniel Neg, the outcome;
If i won = i'm lucky
If i lose = he is better

MrPokerVerse said:

Not looking for a single hand or a session to gauge anything. If the less skilled players didn't stack off with the worse hand, they would never deposit again. Being ahead on a hand and losing it for me is odds, not luck. Getting in ahead is the win, regardless of the results.

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Your point here and the point I was making are not the same. I agree with your point here. When discussing luck I'm talking more sustained events or infrequent events with life changing consequences. When you mention odds in your post you are setting an expectation that you will win a certain percentage of the time. Some players run well above that EV curve while others run well below. Both players could be of equal skill but have drastically different results. This is what I'm talking about when I'm talking about luck. If you watched someone go all in and get called holding a set against a flush draw and lose 10 times out of 10 would you consider that unlucky given that the odds dictate the average player in the spot wins around 7 out of 10. Now lets take it another step and say those 10 were not all in a row but those were the 10 largest pots that player ever played which resulted in losing tens of thousands of dollars. That doesn't seem unlucky to you? Now lets pretend that guys opponent was the same in all 10 hands. That doesn't seem lucky to you? I know I'm creating crazy scenarios but statistically speaking it takes thousands or tens of thousands of trials to get to a point where we can write off variance with respect to expected outcomes and there are many ways that players are at the mercy of variance and can have vastly different results based on it. In general playing poker, especially live, a player will often not last through the thousands of trails if they are well below that curve and go broke or give up in frustration first. That is my only point. You still do not have to be lucky to win. But luck is a huge factor in any players results.

MrPokerVerse said:

Seems like Confucius was a fan of hard work. That or they enjoyed walking.

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Confucius is the on who influenced eastern culture. Because of his influence in the past they've invented gun powder, paper, silk and many other useful things.

If you can compare eastern and western culture through most popular art today, which is visual art, you can clearly see the difference.

In eastern movies main character was beat by 2 criminals at the street, what he decides to do? he walks to the mountains, spends 5 years practicing martial arts, returns to his town and beats all criminal activity there...

What do we see in western movies? Main character meets an alien who gives him super powers, or he's insanely rich and smart since he been born, or radioactive spider bites him, and that's why he becomes a coolest guy in town and beats all criminal activity cause he's a super hero.:boring:

What is real and what is not? You can spend 5 years practicing martial arts and become a UFC fighter one day, or you can wait until radioactive chicken will bite you one day and you'll become a chickenman superhero and fly high above rooftops.

thetzarofpoker said:

In my opinion having Luck is Essential to be a winner, lets talk about experiences, definitions, ways to call it, and ways to deal and manage it.. :icon_cycl

I think this could be very interesting and we can try others people methods they share..

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If you really think so, then I sincerely sympathize with you. That is all I can say.

Without having a luck You can't win a tournament. One of component of this game is luck. When you play a tournament always come a moment when luck is needed.

finaltable1 said:

wait until radioactive chicken will bite you one day and you'll become a chickenman superhero and fly high above rooftops.

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Stay in the queue. You forgot to mention you still need Luck for that chicken to bite you among so many Superhero-wannabe out in the street :aetsch:

YKCaiTLH1314 said:

Stay in the queue. You forgot to mention you still need Luck for that chicken to bite you among so many Superhero-wannabe out in the street :aetsch:

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Exactly!:damnmate: "wannabe" It's a nice word btw!

What I was trying to say there in my posts above?:hmmmm2:

Oh yeah

I've tried to explain the difference between real luck that we can get by creating new opportunities for ourselves and the luck that lives in some peoples dreams and happens as often as tornado builds a working plane using parts of twisted sea ships.

Art creates culture, culture forms behavior, behavior creates lifestyle. From such point of view normal people must ignore majority of media products, cause movies/songs/games are forming virtual stereotypes in heads of the people, and instead of trying their luck in the real world people prefer to be unlucky in the reality but feel happy when they see their favorite actor/artist/game character. 100 year life is just 876K hours, and such things like Avatar movie or Breaking Bad/Game of Thrones are wasting billions of human hours for nothing, giving fake dreams and fake idols and making people too scared to test their luck in something real and useful for the society. Nuclear bomb will instantly erase thousands of human lifes, Game of Throne will do the same but slowly and "with pleasure". Who is more lucky? The one who lives his life or the one who observes how imaginary people are living their story at his screen?

YKCaiTLH1314 said:

That means you are a poker player to survive so many times of such brutal result. You keep playing again and again knowing that variance will happen no matter how skillful you are, am i right?
As for gambler, when they shove you in with 29, they are very well prepared to lose. Even knowing that their chances are like 15% against your Aces, yet they still do it. They are gambling with luck.
I believe you know very well that to go far, you need discipline and healthy bankroll. Never tilt and never go broke.

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imagine you are in a final table a have AA and BB is chip leader and goes all in.... and nobody calls, it just you to call... you Fold or Call ?? I´m Going to tell you the rigth answer.... It depends how lucky is threath you at that moment if you had have some bad luck in some hands better fold and wait, if you had have good results at that time better call. Luck is like sub atomic particles, it is all about chance, probability, momentum..

Play

I do not believe in luck, believe in the mood for one. Depending on how you are in the day is depending on how you see the game !!

thetzarofpoker said:

imagine you are in a final table a have AA and BB is chip leader and goes all in.... and nobody calls, it just you to call... you Fold or Call ?? I´m Going to tell you the rigth answer.... It depends how lucky is threath you at that moment if you had have some bad luck in some hands better fold and wait, if you had have good results at that time better call. Luck is like sub atomic particles, it is all about chance, probability, momentum..

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depending on how your placed i would think about that as it has no effect to the chip leader if you bust and my aces always seem to crack in this situation lol at the end of the day luck and greed has alot to do with it along with skill and bankroll management.