Only fish use the word "Luck"

  • Thread starter Thread starter klickitat
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So... you are kinda saying,if you flopped a set of K's and a fish calls your all in with A/rag and hits runner runner A's on the turn & river to give them a full house A,A,A,K,K, versus your K,K,K,A,A full house they are not lucky?They did the math?
 
My opinion is that the two cards you catch pre-flop is luck, but the way you play those two cards takes skill. The first cards that come to the board is luck. Then again, it takes skill to play your hand along with those cards. The same is true for the turn and river. So I'm a fish because I do use the word luck as you can see.
 
if no luck,better poker not to play,I sometimes get the feeling that the river is working against me,when you're sitting with a hand of aces and the flop 2,3,9,and against you fish with 2 and a Jack on hand,and on the river he comes Jack,what skills will help?
 
luck of course greatly helps, then how would not argue, but still need to play a stable analysis of that prishodit at the table, and even be a minimum calculation sootnsheniya Bank and the rates in comparison with the quality of cards in this hand
 
PLAYINBIG said:
So... you are kinda saying,if you flopped a set of K's and a fish calls your all in with A/rag and hits runner runner A's on the turn & river to give them a full house A,A,A,K,K, versus your K,K,K,A,A full house they are not lucky?They did the math?
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That's what it sounds like, luck is over rated. 😉

:top:
 
zubastik said:
if no luck,better poker not to play,I sometimes get the feeling that the river is working against me,when you're sitting with a hand of aces and the flop 2,3,9,and against you fish with 2 and a Jack on hand,and on the river he comes Jack,what skills will help?
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byne that arise such situations, you need to make a pre-flop bet that would have players with cards such as J2 just dropped his hand
 
I am not totaly agreeing with you. Luck is a real thing and you can increase or decrease your Luck by making the right choiches in the poker game. Luck and math (CAN BE) are the same it is just the term you use for it.
 
Most of the players (even beginners), consider themselves poker sharks, and are offended when their yes is deservedly called the fish, and because most of the lower limits and is a true fish.
 
anyone who thinks Luck plays more then 20% of the picture in poker is indeed a fish with ZERO understanding of the game.
Give me a full ring game 4 players who are certified plus 10 bb/100 players and 6 guys who have never played more then 5 games of poker.
Let them play 1000 games.
I Will bet EVERYTHING I own the 4 guys/gals who are plus 10 bb players will win OVER 75% of the games while representing 40% of the players.
The (bad) Luck part will be that they didnt win over 95% of the time.
 
poker is not 100proocent game that you can win becouse you very good player,sometimes luck change everything ...
 
The probability of winning jackpot in the lottery 1 to several million. Of course, it can also be called chances. And no luck. We agree with this? Then you can safely remove the word as not wanted. It all comes down to the odds, probabilities...
 
Even If you make the right moves sometimes you will need a little luck.
 
klickitat said:
Strong statement, maybe, but I believe it holds true and here is why.

First I come from Blackjack background and the lessons learned there directly apply to poker.

The first thing you need to realize is that you are playing the percentages and it is your job to make plays when those percentages are in your favor. If you make plays when they are not in your favor then it is called gambling.

The second thing you need to come to grips with is the fact you are not going to win every hand even when the odds are 99% in your favor. There is no luck involved, just a mathematical fact that you will loose 1% of the time over the long haul in those situations.

So starting with these two facts we approach the game knowing that we are not playing just one hand or even one game, but rather a period of time that includes many games with the bigger the sample the more likely variances are absorbed.

Catching cards or bad beats are only a product of the odds. If you play the odds over the long haul you will be successful. If is your job play those preferred times that increase your success.

Blackjack is but a simplified game of poker where you are not allowed to play against people, but the choice when to raise, call or fold are still the same. What holds true for both games is the fact that you need to be prepared to take advantage of the odds when they are in your favor. Gambling on long shots will more often than not drain your stack and leave you unable to maximize the value of a hand.


Remember that once the cards are shuffled the die is cast and there is no luck involved. There are only opportunities that pass by now and then. Be patient and wait for the best chance of success and remember that an 80% favor to win also means that 20% of the time you will loose. No luck, just math.
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how you want won in big mtt tournament, without luck... only maths and psihology... It's online poker with strange random number generator...
ok, I'm a fish... I don't tight player... I play in Loose agressive, and same time tight... and I use word like a "luck"
couse poker it's a game with gambling elements...
And when your preflop monster, or flop monster was bad beat on river and turn... when you chane to win on flop 90-95% - it's not a luck?)
 
luck=variance with positive outcomes. generally its only associated with small odds, but i would argue that there is a little bit of luck in everything (so increasing your pot odds increases your luck). Then again, it is only a superstitious belief I guess.
 
Well I am not a believer in luck, and I am aware that if you play by choosing the best decision will have better long-term results, we know that is a mathematical result but I like it a name and tell him luck.
It depends on the point of view of each person.
If this makes me look like a fish "hey here is fresh fish."
Do not trust. :evil:
 
I do know something, if it wasn't for bad luck, I simply wouldn't have any luck at all.
 
Don't think I agree with that at all. I mean even Webster's defines "Luck" as being when opportunity meets preparation.
Yah, I think I agree more with Webster's
 
dj11 said:
Since we are merely mortal beings, we don't have the time to use this theory. And if we did, the game (all games) would be net zero or worse (rake / fees).

We mere mortals decide that we do need a measurement and we choose something akin to a session. We have decided to use the word 'LUCK' to describe our outcomes. Really it might better be described as the ebb and flow of the odds. But that is clumsy, and luck sounds better.

There are those sessions where things work well for us, and those where nothing works. That is the ebb and flow. It might be mostly statistical, but it also involves stuff like our mental states, our moods, our health, or whether or not that rabbit foot is in the left pocket!

While my counter is simplistic, so is your original post.

When we speak of luck we are talking about all the combined factors which produce good or bad results during our sessions.

I play another online game that perhaps shows off the non statistical aspects of the ebb and flow a bit better. It is a word find game. Originally seen as Tangleword, or Boggle, I play it now as Serpentine Game. (google it). There are days where I am not observing well, and others where I have eagle eyes.

As my familiarity with that game grows, with increasing awareness of the twists and turns (pun intended) my overall performance improves. But then I might (and have) gone thru long stretches (2 weeks or more) of just piss poor performance.

I also play online backgammon, same thing is seen there, and ebb and flow.

Most of that ebb and flow as judged by results, I am now almost convinced, is a function of my (specifically) observational reactions to dynamic situations. I find that when I am doing good or bad at one of those, I will do the same at any of those (including OLP, and even solitaire).

So, while the statistics of poker are valid, it is all the other things AND those stats which go into the concept of 'Luck'. Those you call 'fish' just have less awareness of the totality of the ebb and flow of gaming. Or they may be discounting the importance of all the components in the art of the game (any game).

I offer the above as a partial description of 'Luck'. Not a definition.
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I found very interesting this "partial description of 'Luck'" , the observational reactions to dynamic situations as you say , if I understood right , which factors change from time to time and affect the result , even a pro cannot avoid them at all I would say, only a russian bot maybe 😉 ?

jaymfc said:
only a fish would believe everything they have accomplished in poker or life
was due to the math. luck runs so strong in life and poker. are some people
born smarter or better off than others ? lucky. and a million other things like that,
but I'll stick to poker.
did you see the "against the odds play" by Chris moneymaker, Jamie gold, Jerry yang
or many of the winners of the WSOP? mathematically those same plays won't work in the "long haul"
but how is the long haul gonna get that money back? it can't take the title back. is that lucky?
I 100% know what you are saying and totally agree on the mathematics.
but long haul doesn't even apply to most people. luck does .
I'm not one of the lucky ones who can explain his side well but believe me when I tell you luck is a
part of everything in life including poker. good luck 😛 JMO 🙂
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I agree 100% . Propabilities , mathematics , ok , all these are important to get better but luck is important as well, you need it to achieve a great win , a win that you might not be able to repeat due to variance or your abilities but if you succeed , who cares , Moneymaker did it , he hasn't made a big win since then , do you analyse his win based exclusively on mathematics and the poker rules or that he just had the hands he needed at the time he needed etc, he won , took all the money , he got lucky as we say ,

leosam18 said:
Being a member of CardsChat makes me one of the Lucky Guy !!!
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Till you are banned there is variance don't forget😀 just kiding🙂

PLAYINBIG said:
So... you are kinda saying,if you flopped a set of K's and a fish calls your all in with A/rag and hits runner runner A's on the turn & river to give them a full house A,A,A,K,K, versus your K,K,K,A,A full house they are not lucky?They did the math?
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If it happens to me I'm lucky.
If it happens to a fish he's an :as4:**hole lucky 😀
 
I agree, it's all probability. But how nice it is when good luck helps mathematics.
 
I do not think so, because poker is a game where it is important to not only your ability and skill to play poker, but luck plays an important role. Usually, it takes 20-30%, but still it is present.
 
My opinion is that you can be the best at math,and percentages to be in your favour but you must have luck to win,luck is involved in poker,we cant win without luck.
 
I think this topic is related to something more simple: are you a result oriented or a process oriented?

I'm a process oriented guy, and I'm into both: odds & luck. Math is a thing that I use in every single hands and I'm not allowed myself to call everything with everything. On the other hands, sometimes when you go all-in and still wait for a flush or river, you want luck happens.

Long story short story, what will you do? how do you consider the outcome? For me its fine, I tried my best and they got luck. That wont effect my plays after (much).
 
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