I have no confidence into pocket jacks and I don't consider them for premium hand, in my opinion QQ is not premium hand in online poker but I trust in it
According to my stats in PT4 (that I set up new 3 weeks ago) I played 33 times JJ and won almost 2 Million Chips. For me this is premium, but it looks like it depends, when you play them. First hand in a freeroll with a 5 handed multi-pot it is just a worthless pair, but this changes on a FT. Anyway, I love and hate this hand as much as most of us, one of the most difficult to play.
"almost 2 million chips" is a useless statistic. You need to look at your BB won column to put it into context. For example, assuming winning pots of perhaps 10bb:KRANKES said:
- winning 1 of 4 hands at 5000/10000 wins you 100000 chips.
- winning 9 of 10 hands to 50/100 wins you 9000 chips.
At last tourney a dude shoved his last stack against me, I had Pocket Jacks, It was the way he shoved that made me think twice, it wasn't just that he shoved... I got laughed at by the whole table when I folded (and said I had pocket jacks, because I can be a good sport and say my hand at times-usually for studying purposes lol), but I felt I made the right call. It goes back to my thought (and what Alexander Fitzgerald taught), that if you can't fold pocket pairs in a tourney, you will not make money. I don't trust jacks, I also despise AJ, I would rather shove 68 suited.
Was I wrong? Who knows, who cares, I still made money and I look at Jacks as a snake in the Effin grass.
Was I wrong? Who knows, who cares, I still made money and I look at Jacks as a snake in the Effin grass.
Premium or not, it's an awkward hand to have. For me, it is premium in certain circumstances and it has saved me from OOTM to getting to the final table several times, but it is not an all-in-able preflop hand. In fact I don't even 3-bet it unless there's a few players already in the pot before me. I have also folded it several times to three betting but most of the time I like to get them to the turn, sometimes river if I don't manage to take the pot pre-showdown, which in microstakes it isn't that manageable. Very board dependable unlike queens, kings and aces that can get away more easily on most boards. Tens, nines and eights are nearly on the same level for me, slightly more set hunting. However, they are an easy-ish foldable hand.
Lipki3 said:
It depends on "how good" of a hand qualifies as "premium." Personally, I do consider JJ a premium preflop holding. It is one of the best starting hands after all (top 10% of hands for sure preflop). However, JJ (and QQ for that matter) could easily be over-valued post-flop and for this reason, you don't want to never fold this hand as you can potentially lose a lot with it if unable to get out of the way when beat.
The premium of the premium hands are AA and KK because they are seldom ever dominated and having KK against AA is just a statistical rarity.
In the case of JJ, I feel like it holds a bit more power shorter stacked than in deeper stacked games, but nevertheless, I still consider JJ a premium holding preflop. Post-flop, even pocket Aces are simply One Pair.
Lipki3 said:
i would consider pocket jacks as a semi-premium hand, for me a premium hand is a hand where your odds pre flop is as great as 85% and above with very little room to get out flopped, which is AA's and KK's, only hand that can beat kings are Aces, queens and below lesson your odds, having the cards is one part of it, knowing how to use it to your advantage is another
That's been part of my issue that I haven't addressed in this thread. (And is my issue in a lot of discussions -- poker and non-poker.) What do you mean by "premium". That's kind of subjective and hand-wavey, right?Phoenix Wright said:
Anyway, JJ is in the top 2.5% of starting hands. The top 10% is pretty wide. Specifically, 55+, A8s+, ATo+.
It's hard to consider "top 10%" as premium when you might only be playing the top 20-25% to begin with. But again, what is "premium"?
