Poker and the ego

Irexes said:

Fine line between genius and stupidity. The jury is still out on where I stand.

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Monster hijack: Strindberg + helium

(Sorry about that).

NineLions said:

Excellent thoughts, as always Rex.

In Freudian terms, would this mean playing from the superego, while keeping the id in check?


One of the concepts I liked from Zen and the Art of Poker was that folding is a weapon, and to wield it like a big club.


I'd like to learn more about how to get the ego out of it. I remember reading about one of the good young high stakes players and he demonstrated for his brother how he plays at these high stakes games. He was in a big hand and his brother said aren't you excited? And he said, no, feel my heart, and it was just going at a normal rate. He said when he's watching his favourite sports team he gets excited, but not while playing poker.

That's where I need to work towards. I can still feel my heart race when I get in a big hand, and I am almost as aware of my inability to play properly against players whose game I don't respect, and conversely my intimidation when I play against players whose game I know is better than mine.

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There are two very good books to help get the ego out of your play. The first is a book called "The Power of Now", by Eckhart Tolle and the second, which may not be particularly accessible to poker players is "Trading in the Zone", by Mark Douglas.

The first book is more on the nature of the ego, how it manifests, its basic qualities etc...but he does give a good idea of how to stop acting out of your egoic mind. This is a bit of a spiritual text so if that turns you off then don't worry about this book.

The second book is geared for financial markets trading but is a brilliant take on what is happening in your mind when you trade/play poker. It also has an explanation of how your beleif system works and how it prevents you from acting from a probabalistic perspective. Alot of this is relevant for poker as it really cements that the game is about probabilities and edges in the long run. When this is firmly set in your mind, as working beliefs, you'll find yourself much calmer at the tables. Douglas talks about great traders being able to enter "the zone" and this is basically a Zen like state. The beleifs he gets you to create are conducive to getting into "the zone".

What is common to both books is the idea of staying rooted in the present moment. Douglas also states that he has never met a trader who didn't need to learn to stay in the present, as it is a mind function that most people never think about or master.

PM me if you want more info.

Very nice post Rex.

Well written. I was at work when I first pulled this up, so printed it out and read it later, and it is a helpful piece for any aspiring poker player. I know theres a few guys at my home games that can put me on tilt. Lately I've even been letting them get the best of me. Its tough to deal with sometimes, but this piece was a great reminder. no emotions, better play. Good stuff, look forward to reading more.

That is a most excellent post Irexes. It describes by far the strongest part of my game. I am living proof that you can be a solid player at just about any level by mastering the ego and eliminating plays that just don’t make sense.

Before anyone thinks im beating my own horn (or is that drum?) a tad to hard let me say I am not a pro nor do I have any interest in being a pro. I just like to play poker. I play for the sheer enjoyment of the game.

For all you that want to be pros I will all but guarantee if you can get a solid handle on what Mr. Irexes is saying here you will find yourself 80% of the way there. If not more.

They say in baseball that hitting is 80% mental and 20% physical ability. Id say those same percentages apply to poker... give or take 10. 80% mastering the ego and 20% mechanics.

Good luck yall

Very nice post rex, I have actually been trying to focus on this a lot lately. Sometimes I would get lazy and do things I knew were wrong just for a thrill kind of. I am trying not to play as frequently and making sure I am in a very good state of mind when I play now, it helps a lot.

Fantastic post lizard-necro-man.

There are so many great points you make that I'm reluctant to quote. I'll just say that the time where I played my best, regardless of the results, I was able to remove myself so that I could make the best decisions at that moment for the case at hand.

+EV for you here rexxy

Thanks for the feedback folks, much appreciated.

And this....

F Paulsson said:

Monster hijack: Strindberg + helium

(Sorry about that).

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... is awesome for reasons which I cannot begin to explain

Great post Rex! These are the things I have been focusing on the most lately. The psych stuff... Man, I thought I was reading Alan Schoonmaker!

If you liked "Zen and the Art of Poker", you have to pick up Schoonmaker's new book "Your Worst Poker Enemy". It's outstanding. It has a whole section on ego. You'd love it if you haven't read it yet.

Schatzdog said:

There are two very good books to help get the ego out of your play. The first is a book called "The Power of Now", by Eckhart Tolle and the second, which may not be particularly accessible to poker players is "Trading in the Zone", by Mark Douglas.

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Thanks Schatz. I will take a look at both, once our library system ends its strike.

I have done more study on the topic of Zen than of poker, but not all of Zen is directly applicable to poker, or is it the other way around? It may be a function of the newness of the thinking process required by poker; I can get "in the zone" when improvising jazz but that's because I've done it for years. My poker skills have a long ways to go to develop that kind of facility and comfort level so I'm sure that experience will improve the situation.

NineLions said:

Thanks Schatz. I will take a look at both, once our library system ends its strike.

I have done more study on the topic of Zen than of poker, but not all of Zen is directly applicable to poker, or is it the other way around? It may be a function of the newness of the thinking process required by poker; I can get "in the zone" when improvising jazz but that's because I've done it for years. My poker skills have a long ways to go to develop that kind of facility and comfort level so I'm sure that experience will improve the situation.

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No problem, I hope they help. I was just thinking about another book I've read called "The Inner Game of Tennis". This was a ground-breaking book on sports psychology when initially released. It explains the relationship between the conscious and subconscious mind in terms of the division of labour between the two when playing sport. This is another great read with definite Zen and poker application.

Anyway, good luck with it.