Is poker gambling?

TrapStar · Dec 12, 2008

nevadanick said:
HMmmm.. then I would say poker is gambling based on the 'uncertain outcome' criteria. But then, considering current world financial situations, wouldn't stocks and futures be gambling. ?? ...

Of course stocks are gambling. Everyone knows that. Stocks are more of a gamble than playing poker if you play tight enough. And I'm not talking about one poker game, I mean over the course of at least a year. If you are patient enough to play ABC poker, you are guaranteed to win in the long run, but maybe not win so much. If you like to play many different hands, see a lot of flops, and bluff a lot, than poker is definitely gambling. You have a better chance at winning a significant amount of money playing that way, but also good chance of losing a significant amount. If you play extremely tight and by the book, over the course of at least a year you will get probably around 110% return on investment....but that's no fun lol

So my answer to the question "Is poker gambling?" is it depends on how you play.

I'm sure you see donks all the time go all in preflop for $50 into a 75 cent pot, you think that's not gambling? And the guy that calls the donkey overbet holding ace high with no pot odds, you think he's not gambling?

pkrook · Dec 12, 2008

well...

of course it is...if it weren't it would be poker...

ray101bassman · Dec 13, 2008

Well you are gambling only if it is a none skilled game. So I play on my skills and if this wass a spelling contest I lose that is a fact but we are playing cards numbers and a lot of facters so no I really believe I am not gambling.

But shit my goverment knows better I guess thats why it is so )(*^%$$% screwed up.

ivantech · Dec 13, 2008

If your hopes of the outcome of a game is a prize or monies then your gambling whether your playing poker or chess. If no bet is made then our not gambling.

gambitire · Dec 13, 2008

Of Course Poker is Gambling!...if I'm sitting with pocket threes and i call your pre-flop raise I'm "gambling" that ill hit a three on the board,im taking a chance that fortune will be kind to me and that an event will or won't happen...which essentially is the meaning of the word

sd great 1 · Dec 13, 2008

poker is gambling for the simple fact that you pay to enter a game and have no gaurantee of an outcome. thus playing in a freeroll or just for fun
is not gambling but instead a competition. and most competitions are won by the person with the most skill. skill helps your odds of winning the bet it is still no gaurantee for you to win.

vanquish · Dec 13, 2008

sd great 1 said:
poker is gambling for the simple fact that you pay to enter a game and have no gaurantee of an outcome. thus playing in a freeroll or just for fun
is not gambling but instead a competition. and most competitions are won by the person with the most skill. skill helps your odds of winning the bet it is still no gaurantee for you to win.

so ur saying freerolls take more skill to win than regular tournaments

spranger · Dec 14, 2008

ray101bassman said:
Well you are gambling only if it is a none skilled game. So I play on my skills and if this wass a spelling contest I lose that is a fact but we are playing cards numbers and a lot of facters so no I really believe I am not gambling.

But shit my goverment knows better I guess thats why it is so )(*^%$$% screwed up.

So then Pete Rose shouldn't have been banned from baseball, becasue betting on himself in a skilled game wasn't gambling right?

vanquish said:
so ur saying freerolls take more skill to win than regular tournaments

What he's saying is that freerolls aren't gambling because you don't have to risk anything to win the money. In regular tournys there is a risk vs. reward, the two factors that make something gambling.

jokish123 · Dec 14, 2008

Yes poker is gambling. The definition of gambling is "to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes." In the game of poker, the player risks his/her money to win more money. Therefore it is gambling.

brianvoytek · Dec 14, 2008

Ummm...yeah...It's gambling. Tell all the gambling addicts out there its not and then you'll get a rude awakening. So many idiots out there have lost their house, families, etc because of poker and other games like it.

So yeah...it's gambling.

OnceMore · Dec 14, 2008

Of course it is.

whiteboy · Dec 14, 2008

it depends on the player. the people who play for entertainment are gambling. people who play seriously and to make money are not. there is simply an element of luck included

sd great 1 · Dec 15, 2008

vanquish said:
so ur saying freerolls take more skill to win than regular tournaments

let clear up what i meant. poker is a competition. having more skill than another person gives you an advantage in a competition. a freeroll is only a competition with a prize at the end. the gambling part only applies if you wager money at the begining of the game.

i think the poker sites also see it this way. .net sites which are legal to advertise for in the United States don't allow you to wager a bet prior to the game but do offer prizes if you win a freeroll. .com sites which advertising is not allowed in the United States bescause they do allow you to place a wager on a game prior to the start of it.

underdog140 · Dec 15, 2008

sd great 1 said:
vanquish said:

so ur saying freerolls take more skill to win than regular tournaments

let clear up what i meant. poker is a competition. having more skill than another person gives you an advantage in a competition. a freeroll is only a competition with a prize at the end. the gambling part only applies if you wager money at the begining of the game.

i think the poker sites also see it this way. .net sites which are legal to advertise for in the United States don't allow you to wager a bet prior to the game but do offer prizes if you win a freeroll. .com sites which advertising is not allowed in the United States bescause they do allow you to place a wager on a game prior to the start of it.

Click to expand...

I agree with you.More skill you have the better chance of winning but still is gambling.

AKQ69 · Dec 15, 2008

Poker is not as much of a gamble as playing the stock market. You can take a look at your hand and make a reasonable determination as to weather your in good shape or not. You may not get good information if you play the stock market. Ie. Lehman Brothers, AIG, Enron, Worldcom.... Now that's a gamble.

califantasy · Dec 15, 2008

TrapStar said:
Of course stocks are gambling. Everyone knows that. Stocks are more of a gamble than playing poker if you play tight enough. And I'm not talking about one poker game, I mean over the course of at least a year.

Respectfully, I disagree. In any form of casino gambling, the odds are against the average player due to the fact that there is a finite amount of money to win (limits which prevent martingale type systems), and the house takes money out of every bet through either paying less than true odds, or in poker or horse racing, the rake. In summary, the house has an edge that cannot be overcome without outperforming the game to a degree that you can beat the rake (or odds), and have money left over.

On the other hand, the stock market has given the long-term edge to the investor so to speak. The short term market fluctuations might be up and down, and in huge swings (like gambling), but in the long run, overall, investors profit, as opposed to gamblers. You can't pick any 30 year window in history where the equity market has failed to yield a profit.

Poker is a rare exception to most laws of gaming, since you play against other players, and can gain enough edge on other players to pay the rake, and still produce a profit. (Arguably, horse racing also falls into this realm).

AKQ69 · Dec 15, 2008

califantasy said:
Respectfully, I disagree. In any form of casino gambling, the odds are against the average player due to the fact that there is a finite amount of money to win (limits which prevent martingale type systems), and the house takes money out of every bet through either paying less than true odds, or in poker or horse racing, the rake. In summary, the house has an edge that cannot be overcome without outperforming the game to a degree that you can beat the rake (or odds), and have money left over.

On the other hand, the stock market has given the long-term edge to the investor so to speak. The short term market fluctuations might be up and down, and in huge swings (like gambling), but in the long run, overall, investors profit, as opposed to gamblers. You can't pick any 30 year window in history where the equity market has failed to yield a profit.

Poker is a rare exception to most laws of gaming, since you play against other players, and can gain enough edge on other players to pay the rake, and still produce a profit. (Arguably, horse racing also falls into this realm).

That is very interesting and very well put.

I would like to add that of course with the stock market there are so many uncontrollable outside influences that can effect your profitability, such as Uncle Sugar and infinite others. At the poker table it's just you and me and the cards. I feel if I can bring my mental acuity, my attitude and my guts I can get the job done.

diaryofanaxeman · Dec 15, 2008

no poker is not gambling, poker is skill based if it was gambling then people who make a living off it must be some of the luckiest people in the world

RogueRivered · Dec 16, 2008

I feel that if your expected value is negative and you keep playing, no matter what the game, then you are gambling. If you're expected value is positive, then that is no gamble, only a calculated risk. The stock market is a calculated risk over time; day-trading may be more of a gamble.

Certainly casinos are in the gambling business but they are not the ones doing the gambling. Their customers are the gamblers; the casinos are making a statistically sure-thing profit -- definitely not a gamble. A small edge is all it takes to turn a gamble into a sure thing. Just make sure you use good bankroll management to overcome short-term variance.

RogueRivered · Dec 16, 2008

Another thought -- any game in and of itself can not be gambling. Only players betting on it can make it a gambling game. Flipping a coin is not gambling, betting on it is. In poker, you have some players who are gamblers, and some who are using their superior skill to give them an edge and thus are not gamblers. I guess the trick is knowing whether in any given game you are the gambler or the most skilled. Experience can help teach you which one you are.

stardustvegas · Dec 16, 2008

not gambling

Its a game with odds and it also is a game of people watching gambling is based off luck so poker is stratagy not luck....

Lake1772 · Dec 17, 2008

Poker, by definition, is Gambling..
There is no way around it.

In poker, you wager money to win money.
This makes it "gambling". The medium is irellivent.

Although.. if you are playing a freeroll, i guess maybe it wouldnt be..
cause you didnt wager any money,,. you're playing for money but at no risk so that might not be defined"" as gambling.
Otherwise, yep. its gambling..

chalk all the other answers up to denial

hacklimit · Dec 17, 2008

Poker is both a game of skill and gambling. You have to know when to hold em and when to fold em, and at the same time you have to catch cards. The best players in the world cannot win on skill alone.

10crow10 · Dec 17, 2008

hold em = not really
Omaha = Hell yes!!

FlowJoe · Dec 20, 2008

zachvac said:
If you play one session it's gambling. If you play hundreds of thousands of hands over a long period of time, it's not gambling.

No then it's a professional addiction! Of course it's gambling. The game however has elements of skill that can sway the odds in your favor if mastered!! Just playing a zillion hands means nothing. You have to have a winning percentage to prove whether or not you have SKILLS. I appreciate the spin doctoring going on in the community to get congress to categorize us as skilled practitioners vs. gamblers. BUT the game has skill and gamble in it.....especially NO LIMIT!!
And YOU KNOW THIS MAN!!!!!
Peace,
FLOW :deal: :icon_sant

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