Can someone explain the ins and outs of rakeback to me?

I never heard the term before signing up here. I did a search of the forums but only found loose references to it.

I guess the gist is that you somehow get part of the rake you pay back but other than that I have no idea what I'd give up for it or how the process is accomplished.

Thanks in advance.

I'd like to know about this too.

Thanks guys.

Pokerstars doesn't offer rakeback.

If you already have an account at FTP and signed up with an affiliate you'll be denied rakeback. If you have an existing account, but didn't sign up with an affiliate you can contact rakeback pros and possibly be accepted to receive 27% rakeback. Rakeback is paid once weekly. GL!

Rake is the amount of money the sight charges you to play. If you are playing a $10 tournament the site will usually take a $1 entree fee, if your playing cash tables the site will usually take 5% of the pots from you at micro-medium stakes and less at the higher takes.

Rake back is when you get a portion of this back and it can be crucial. there are other factors to consider as well as Rakeback however. However I shall start with Rake back, I am not a cash player I specialize in sit and goes and Mtts so I will give my examples for these.

in general most professional players would agree that if you are a top professional at single table tournaments for your stake level a 10% return on investment is realistic. unless the play is completely atrocious you will have a hard time getting more then 10% for single table sit and goes. for mtts much higher ROIs are possible.

let us assume therefore that you are a full time professional player who plays 150 sit and goes a day that is perfectly realistic.

for $6.50 single table sit and goes if we played 150 a day we would have staked $975 in the day with 10% ROI we would make $97.50, assuming we worked five days a week that would be $487.50 a week.

during that week we would have paid $75 a day $75 a day would be (remember were working 5 days a week) $375 a week. assuming we worked 50 weeks a year and had two weeks off, by the end of the year we would have made $24,375 we would have also paid $18750 rake by the end of the year. without having to pay any rake at all our yearly earnings would be $43125. Thats a huge difference, however no site or casino will let you play rake free, but 30% rake back may not be unrealistic 30% of 18750=5625

24375+5625=$30,000
yes I can set up a bunch of figures that come to a round number like this within five minutes its called been autistic.

Thus you can see how drastic Rake back can be but Rake back is not the only factor. What are you getting rake back on for example.

if you are playing $10 sit and goes and paying a 40c entree fee so $10.40 and you get 10% rake back it is better then playing a $10 sit and go with $1 entree fee where you are getting 60% rake back. The reason for this should be so self explanatory that I shall skip explaining it because if u cant see why quit poker now before you lose everything.

entree fee for tournaments and rake on sites does actually vary. I remember on one site I worked the rake back to be huge I almost signed up with them until I realized that they charged huge rake actually 20% entree fee for tournaments and sit goes naturally I gave them a miss.

Rather then working out Rake back the best way to work out the best deal is how much Rake you are paying after rake back has been taken into account.

for example if we played a $10 sit and go with 40c entree fee and 10% rake back and another $10 sit and go with $1 entree fee and 60% rake back we would have payed 3.6% rake on the first sit and go and 4% rake on the second.

the first sit and go therefore is a better deal.

note for cash tables many sites charge the same rake but some charge the rake at intervals of $1 whilst others may do at intervals of $5, thus whilst both claim to be charging 5% rake on the first site at a pot of $3 you would lose 15 c whilst on the second you wouldn't have to pay any rake till $5 thus would lose nothing. This really adds up over time.

Not all sites offer rake back like Coolnout pointed out Pokerstars doesn't. However Pokerstars doesn't However pokerstars has a Vip reward program which you can exchange points for cash, and other nice rewards at one point I made a spreadsheet for Pokerstars working out the total rake back for each level eg silver star Gold star etc.

What I found out is that pokerstars is a great site in terms of Rake back if you call it that for high volume players, However for low volume players it is not such a good deal.

This tends to be the case with most sites that offer vip reward programs, on a side note avoid party poker at all costs there rake is atrocious.

However rake is not the only important factor you also have to consider other factors the main factors for a professional poker player to consider should be

1.Total rake charged after rake back factored in
2. average time duration of the sit and go or tournament
3. Player standard
4. game structure
5. stake level and expected ROI
6. Game availability
7. expected returns on an hourly basis (which is the sum total of the first 6 points.)

Please note the figures for pokerstars were based on calculations for 2009 since then pokerstars have changed there vip program and are now more competitive in most areas. The figures below should therefore be observed as theory based only and are no longer representative of poker stars.

I have researched which the best site to play on is for a large period of time and found for me it was poker stars yet I often point new players to other sites. Why? It's not because I want to keep all the benifits to myself its because Pokerstars is more suited to better players. Which is a good reason why poker stars has a much tougher standard of play, these points may seem to contradict and in a way they do but they balance out.

I like to play many tables at once generally anywhere from 12-35. if I went to a small site I could have to wait up to 5-10 minutes for a sit and go to start thus adding time to my sessions since I want to make the highest $ to hour ratio possible thats very bad. Since poker stars has such a huge player base games typically start in less then 30 seconds. that is very good. generally a supernova could earn 28% rake back on pokerstars before you also factor in all there benefits of free rolls and milestone bonus when it could typically pass 35-40%.

However if you were a gold star player for example you typically would have got 16% rake back and free rolls wouldn't have made much of a boost, also a gold star player is not likely to be a guy playing many tables at a time and thus game availability would not be such a huge deal to them. Thus a Gold star player would be far better of not playing on poker stars due to the fact that they are playing a higher standard of player, getting less rake back then if they signed up to a site that offers 27% rake back at sign up and they have no need for such game availability.

A good pro would like poker stars because despite the fact there is tougher competition they have a better deal for rake back then they would get else where and they have quick game availability.

game duration is also important single table tournament that takes 120 minutes is awful because you can find a simple table tournament that takes 45 minutes and the additional profit the extra time may bring is unlikely to compensate you for the time you lost.

Also certain structures may suit you more, depending on your style of play. Thus Rake back is very important and you should make sure you get the best deal do the research you don't necessary want the best rake back you want to pay the least rake after rake back has been taken off, however also note other factors are important to and this is not the sole only important factor in choosing your site.

to Conclude then the best site for Rake back or to play on is variant to your level of play playing style and attributes. Don't ask what the best site is, ask what the best site is for you.

Nice answer Luke

Thanks for that excellent answer. I guess the only thing I don't understand now is how the affiliates get rewarded. Surely something must be given up by someone somewhere.

I'm not a pro by any means but a definitely an avid enthusiast so rakeback is probably something I should look into.

[They are all about the same really.

The RB figure tends to be a standard figure for all RB sites. The only thing that distinguishes them apart is the number of freerolls they enter you for (mine does one per month) and when they pay out the rake. Mine is weekly but there are one or two that pay it out daily.

Stu_Ungar said:

They are all about the same really.

The RB figure tends to be a standard figure for all RB sites. The only thing that distinguishes them apart is the number of freerolls they enter you for (mine does one per month) and when they pay out the rake. Mine is weekly but there are one or two that pay it out daily.

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Okay thanks mate. Will look in to that.

I can explain it by an not that technical guy

Once weekly you get $s for me its friday and the more you play the more money you get.

If you like me have a slim BR its great when / if you go broke its there to back you up !

Rakeback seriously is really really great , get it if u can when signing up whit FT !

What is Rakeback?

Rakeback Definition

Rakeback is a refund of poker room rake that has been charged from a player.
Rake is how poker rooms make money

To understand what is rakeback, you must first learn how poker rooms make profit by charging rake from all real money players. Rake is the only way for poker rooms to make money, since unlike with other casino games, in poker the players are wagering money against other players and not against the house. Think of rake as a small entry fee taken by the poker room for organizing the games.
Poker players do not directly lose any money to the poker room, but the room is steadily raking in micro payments from every cash game pot and tournament entry. The proportion of rake taken online is roughly the same 5% of pot size as in brick and mortar casinos, and depending from stakes it can be anywhere from one cent to five dollars.
Rakeback is a refund of rake

Rakeback is a way for you to save on poker rake costs. By creating your new online poker room accounts through Rakeback.com you will save on average 30% of any rake you pay. Once your poker account is registered in Rakeback.com system, we can keep track of all rake you pay to the poker room. And based on revenue share agreement made between the poker room and Rakeback.com, we are able to credit your poker account with rakeback payments of your rake. Rakeback is typically paid once per calendar month, directly back to your poker account.
Please try the Rakeback Calculator tool to see an estimate of how much rake you are currently paying, and how big your savings could be if you were using rakeback.
How your rake is calculated

Some online poker rooms display the total amount of rake taken from a pot, but none show what your individual rake contribution has been. For accounting purposes however your personal rake is recorded in the poker room backend, and rakeback is based on these rake reports. There are two main ways that poker rooms use to calculate your individual rake contribution: shared and contributed.
In the shared method, rake is divided evenly among all players that were dealt cards. For example if there are ten players sitting at the table and total rake is $1, each player would be assigned 10 cents of rake.
In the contributed method, players must contribute money to the pot to get assigned rake. The rake a player gets credited with is proportionate to the amount of his/her pot contribution. If you were to contribute $50 to a pot of $150 and the total rake taken was $3, you would be assigned $1 rake.

Ive been on FT since December 2009. I will of course check other resources, but I signed up through the regular sign up link on their website, does anyone know if I still qualify? I play micro stakes, and not much money. I also play at PKR and Bodog, if anyone has info on RB 4 these sites.
Ty

It's a shame that PS doesn't have it. I play there a fair bit. Don't enjoy FT as much and hence no BR there. I also play a lot on Mansion Poker and they don't have one either it seems.
Probably have to spread out the BR some so I can take part in this.

belerophon said:

It's a shame that PS doesn't have it. I play there a fair bit. Don't enjoy FT as much and hence no BR there. I also play a lot on Mansion Poker and they don't have one either it seems.
Probably have to spread out the BR some so I can take part in this.

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Oh from your post it seems that you already have a few poker accounts.

If you signed up via an affilliate (most people do) then you cannot change affilliates and therefore most people are unable to get RB on existing accounts. In the case of FT the only RB affilliate you could change to would be RakebackPros. But if you have already signed up via an affilliate then this wont be possible.

Stu_Ungar said:

Oh from your post it seems that you already have a few poker accounts.

If you signed up via an affilliate (most people do) then you cannot change affilliates and therefore most people are unable to get RB on existing accounts. In the case of FT the only RB affilliate you could change to would be RakebackPros. But if you have already signed up via an affilliate then this wont be possible.

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No I only play atm on 2 different sites. I signed up on FT but with no affiliate. Never had any idea there were bonus' outside of the Points they give you.

I guess the only thing I don't understand is what do I have to give up for a rakeback program? That is to say, someone is not going to give me some of my rake back for nothing right? What's in it for them?

On a side not I just saw a place that buys PS tournament points for real dollars. Is this a legit thing also?

belerophon said:

No I only play atm on 2 different sites. I signed up on FT but with no affiliate. Never had any idea there were bonus' outside of the Points they give you.

I guess the only thing I don't understand is what do I have to give up for a rakeback program? That is to say, someone is not going to give me some of my rake back for nothing right? What's in it for them?

On a side not I just saw a place that buys PS tournament points for real dollars. Is this a legit thing also?

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Its very simple.

You give up entry to the free-rolls.

Reason: your rake is what pays for them, now you no longer contribute, you no longer get them.

belerophon said:

Thanks for that excellent answer. I guess the only thing I don't understand now is how the affiliates get rewarded. Surely something must be given up by someone somewhere.

I'm not a pro by any means but a definitely an avid enthusiast so rakeback is probably something I should look into.

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The affiliates make money either 1 of 2 ways. Which they choose when they sign up as an affiliate.

1.) They take a flat rate payout from each new player referral who deposits real money into their account.

or

2.) They take a life time of a percentage of Rake/Total net income.

With option 1 you generally want everyone to sign up through you, even the fish and donks who will blow their BR after their first deposit. This option however limits your ability to advertise "RakeBack"

With option 2 you really want to attract competitive winning players. With a "RakeBack" incentive. RakeBackPros for instance give you a 27% rake back contribution. In total an affiliate who signed up with option 2 and is making money off your success is getting 30% of the rake you paid and giving you your 27% and thus they only keep 3%.

I think I left something out but, someone can correct me if I forgot something.

Does anyone know at what bankroll level/stakes this becomes more important. I have pretty small bankrolls and play micro stakes, haven't been motivated to try to change over my existing accounts to rakeback deal. But at some point when I move up in stakes, I'd like to.

slgalt said:

Does anyone know at what bankroll level/stakes this becomes more important. I have pretty small bankrolls and play micro stakes, haven't been motivated to try to change over my existing accounts to rakeback deal. But at some point when I move up in stakes, I'd like to.

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Micro's have a huge amount of rake compared to higher stakes.