What's The Deal With Poker Bots?

pokerman27 said:

Not sure I get this? Why would you have them all play at the same table?

Also, why would a regular player play 100,000s of hands (sometimes millions) with a BB/100 of +9 and not move up?

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Because they're winning at that level.

Tenessee123 said:

this is such bs. thats why i like live play better. i think bots are cheating. losers that cant play the game and only want money use bots. i read an article one time of a guy that had 13 bots going at all times. he was raking in a grand a night on 25 cent tables.

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Did he try to sell you some land in Florida too?

Well, FTP and stars now have some security checks to avoid bots but...
I guess there are still some programs they can't detect.
Hence why it seems some players NEVER ever sleep.
I go to certain table early in the morning here, there he is...
5 hours later, he's still there...
15 hours later he was yet there and winning...

It's annoying

Poker Orifice said:

Did he try to sell you some land in Florida too?

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Haha love it

Well, FTP and stars now have some security checks to avoid bots but...
I guess there are still some programs they can't detect.
Hence why it seems some players NEVER ever sleep.
I go to certain table early in the morning here, there he is...
5 hours later, he's still there...
15 hours later he was yet there and winning...

It's annoying

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They check whether it's a bot by asking them to respond in chat within a certain amount of time. If you can see them there 24 hours a day you can be quite sure that the sites do, too. You need to understand that some people play online poker for a living, they are like poker playing machines, grinding away with 20+ tables running for hours on end. It's also not unknown for more than one person to use a poker account, although I think it breaks the T&Cs of most sites. Look how many usernames there are around like NatandDave or KevandSal.

A lot of people in the UK don't understand why I want to enter a CardsChat freeroll that starts at 1am, but I work permanent 2pm-10pm and go to bed about 4am usually. Just because people choose to live their lives differently to you it doesn't necessarily imply that there is anything illegal going on.

NoWuckingFurries said:

Haha love it They check whether it's a bot by asking them to respond in chat within a certain amount of time. If you can see them there 24 hours a day you can be quite sure that the sites do, too. You need to understand that some people play online poker for a living, they are like poker playing machines, grinding away with 20+ tables running for hours on end. It's also not unknown for more than one person to use a poker account, although I think it breaks the T&Cs of most sites. Look how many usernames there are around like NatandDave or KevandSal.

A lot of people in the UK don't understand why I want to enter a CardsChat freeroll that starts at 1am, but I work permanent 2pm-10pm and go to bed about 4am usually. Just because people choose to live their lives differently to you it doesn't necessarily imply that there is anything illegal going on.

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I do understand that, I have seen people playing a lot and they didn't seem any bot, they chat form time to time and reasonable things.

A guy at 15 tables or so for that many hours isn't normal... not chatting, not nothing.
Same betting patterns, same amount of time to answer a bet, etc...

Neoblast said:

A guy at 15 tables or so for that many hours isn't normal... not chatting, not nothing.

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I concur

Tenessee123 said:

this is such bs. thats why i like live play better. i think bots are cheating. losers that cant play the game and only want money use bots. i read an article one time of a guy that had 13 bots going at all times. he was raking in a grand a night on 25 cent tables.

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There are always going to be stories like this, however when you check all time earnings on PTR you will not see players earning these kinds of figures at these kinds of limits. Its an urban legend.

Neoblast said:

Well, FTP and stars now have some security checks to avoid bots but...
I guess there are still some programs they can't detect.
Hence why it seems some players NEVER ever sleep.
I go to certain table early in the morning here, there he is...
5 hours later, he's still there...
15 hours later he was yet there and winning...

It's annoying

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Of course you were also there over the same 15 hour period.

I suppose that the perfect field to implemet a bot is in limit holdem, a so called "solved game". Differently in no limit holdem there are more elements to factor in besides the pure mathematical principles.

I also assume that bots could only deal with ring games, as tournament play is even more complicated?

NoWuckingFurries said:

I also assume that bots could only deal with ring games, as tournament play is even more complicated?

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Different yes.. more complicated.. I'd say definately no.

The early stages play more like a ring game, but as the blinds increase and the M lowers the game becomes more push or fold.

So are you implying that ring games are more complex from the point of view of picking up tells from your opponents?

Otherwise I don't see how you can argue that ring games are as complicated as tournaments.

NoWuckingFurries said:

So are you implying that ring games are more complex from the point of view of picking up tells from your opponents?

Otherwise I don't see how you can argue that ring games are as complicated as tournaments.

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I'm saying that as the blinds increase, implied odds decrease thus making decisions more and more straight forward.

As stacks decrease there is less room to manoeuvre.

NoWuckingFurries said:

So are you implying that ring games are more complex from the point of view of picking up tells from your opponents?

Otherwise I don't see how you can argue that ring games are as complicated as tournaments.

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Because he's saying that in ring games you never face the push/fold decisions that you do in tourneys. At some point in a tournament, skill and complexity (i.e. "playing poker") mostly goes out the window and it's almost all about luck, fold equity on the various bubbles (money bubble, final table bubble, big bump in cash bubbles, etc.), etc. Eventually you just don't have the stack to "play poker," especially in the fast tournaments that are typical of most online tourneys. At the final table the average stack size is almost always short compared to the blinds/antes. Large, slow tournaments like the big buy-in Main Events are generally a different story, but the luck factor still plays a much larger role in a player's success than in cash. Any average Joe off the street (Chris Moneymaker anyone?) can run good and take down a single big tourney to become an overnight millionaire, but making a million and hanging on to it playing cash games is quite another thing. Witness how rare the big pros actually take down these large field tourneys, while the top cash players are consistently at the top of their game with rarely an amateur (or even a tourney pro) breaking through them. You find that most solid cash players do better in tourneys than the other way around.

I would say tournaments do throw in an added complexity of forced gear changing. Changing gears is important in cash games too, based on the players you're facing, but in tourney's it's always forced on you due to the blinds/antes, bubble situations, and different cash situations. So I wouldn't say that tourneys are without their own complexity, they just usually devolve into something that is often decided by coin flip rather than skill. In that sense, a ring game never changes and you must play consistently well all the time to be successful.

This push/fold scenario never happens in ring games, unless you're a SS strategist, or a fish with your whole BR on the table who just spazzes off the last of it. With ring, you must "play poker" constantly.

pickup said:

The only way to make real money in poker today is by playing as many tables as you can and play as tight as you can. It is easier to play tighter because you will make less mistakes with marginal hands, and the tighter you play the more tables you can play. This is why there are so many people that play so many tables at a time, which in turn makes players think that they are playing against bots, because all these people do is fold, fold, fold, and show up with monster hands when they do decide to play. Im not saying that there are no bots playing on these sites, there are just a lot less then you think, hardly any at all... they are really not profitable anyway, but whatever works, or makes people happy...

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Fmoltley232 said:

actualy dear i think the only way to make money is pker in todays age by playing tighter because you will make less mistakes with marginal hands, and the tighter you play the more tables you can play. This is why there are so many people that play so many tables at a time, which in turn makes players think that they are playing against bots, because all these people do is fold, fold, fold, and show up with monster hands when they do decide to play.

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I think Fmoltley is a bot.

if they where in any full tilt tourny's
the donks play would confuse even bots
and
make them explode within 5 mins
lol

Google shanky poker bot. I beleive it will answer most of your questions about bots. You see they go by the book. You can learn alot playing against a bot.

Hahaha! This thread is so funny!
It's actually easier to play against bots because it's a BOT and not a thinking human being!

most common bots are the bots that go all-in pre-flop with monster hands and fold everything else and you can easily steal their blinds and avoid their hands.
2nd type is the type that raises the same amount depending on the hand and that may also call instead of always folding, but when he calls it means a raise will make the program fold and that's the end of it. when he raises you may call and if nothing big hits the flop and you think he missed, you can raise and if he has nothing he will instantly fold, or if you hit big and you think he hit something you can raise and he will call...as simple as that.

However, I used to see those and happily play with them a long while ago! Nowadays they seem almost extinct...especially the type 2 ones, the only ones I see every now and then are the first type. So don't worry about them, you should be more worried about the human players than the stupid programs because you can't exploit their programming weakness.Cheers

Divebitch said:

I think Fmoltley is a bot.

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I should copyright my posts, lol

pickup said:

I should copyright my posts, lol

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Seriously. Here I was thinking here's a new guy who is maybe gonna look like an accessory to the crime because of this idiot. lol Eh, I think you're good.

pokerman27 said:

There are a few players (seemingly at all levels) that are constantly tagged by other players on PTR as bots. How much of this is people's jealousy of someone else's ability and how much is truth.

There are a few players at 2NL and 5NL that seem to have graphs so straight they're drawn with a ruler and they play a staggering number of hands yet never move up despite being easily rolled for levels 2 or 3 times higher. Surely if they are bots Stars would have busted them by now? So how widespread are they?

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There are two kinds of bots , automated-semi automated programs used by normal players ,bots what are reading the decision of a poker inspector or a tracker .They simply applies the decision of another calculator of percentage - hand history analizer program interacting with the poker client. you not even need to touch the mouse the program does all by itself. it simulates also the clicks on the mouse so even if the owners of the poker room would want to detect who is using this kind of programs (they are not inteesed at .. a bot can play as long as you want it doesnt gets tired it doesnt needs to eat ...generating in this kind more hands so more rake)they would not be able to...
on the other side is not easy to fine tune a bot of those for example.... this is an hand played by a normal bot program

Full Tilt poker game #22017599243: Table Exum (6 max) - $0.02/$0.05 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 21:10:03 ET - 2010/07/01
Seat 1: pjoe951 ($6.63)
Seat 2: TheMadOtter ($5)
Seat 3: Schnitzel83 ($5.09)
Seat 4: Angelo Franzini ($5.99)
Seat 5: Perkris ($3.95)
Seat 6: Domin8rix ($11.56)
Angelo Franzini posts the small blind of $0.02
Perkris posts the big blind of $0.05
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Angelo Franzini [Ah 8h Ad 2h]
Domin8rix has 15 seconds left to act
Domin8rix has timed out
Domin8rix folds
Domin8rix is sitting out
Domin8rix has returned
pjoe951 calls $0.05
TheMadOtter folds
Schnitzel83 calls $0.05
Angelo Franzini raises to $0.20
Perkris calls $0.15
pjoe951 has 15 seconds left to act
pjoe951 calls $0.15
Schnitzel83 calls $0.15
*** FLOP *** [Qd Qs 7d]
Angelo Franzini checks
Perkris checks
pjoe951 checks
Schnitzel83 checks
*** TURN *** [Qd Qs 7d] [Qc]
Angelo Franzini bets $0.68
Perkris calls $0.68
pjoe951 has 15 seconds left to act
pjoe951 folds
Schnitzel83 folds
*** RIVER *** [Qd Qs 7d Qc] [5s]
Angelo Franzini checks
Perkris bets $0.30
Angelo Franzini raises to $0.60
Perkris calls $0.30
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Angelo Franzini shows [Ah 8h Ad 2h] a full house, Queens full of Aces
Perkris shows [4h Th Qh 8s] four of a kind, Queens
Perkris wins the pot ($3.14) with four of a kind, Queens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.36 | Rake $0.22
Board: [Qd Qs 7d Qc 5s]
Seat 1: pjoe951 folded on the Turn
Seat 2: TheMadOtter didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Schnitzel83 (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: Angelo Franzini (small blind) showed [Ah 8h Ad 2h] and lost with a full house, Queens full of Aces
Seat 5: Perkris (big blind) showed [4h Th Qh 8s] and won ($3.14) with four of a kind, Queens
Seat 6: Domin8rix didn't bet (folded)

you see this Perkris has nuts and he is simply calling and not reraising or goin all in.

The second kind of bots i wont talk about else we ll finish in the rigged megatread

but if you are really interested i can continue......... but in the rigged megatread

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...igged-megathread-all-rigged-roads-lead-70058/

PooffyFooffy said:

From what I have read it is impossible for a bot to play nlhe, they are set up to play limit.
There are many people who do multi-table up to 24 tables, well maybe no many but quite a few.
We used to play alot of 2nl on stars for kicks and a chick would always sit at our table and she was playing up to 22 tables at once and every once in a while we could get her to talk. I think Chiefer has her locked in his basement now....

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nope .... i bought a few monts ago a nlh bot.... i bought also a profile plaing style lol..... it was acting pretty good at nlh but it was doing bs like that one of the
hand above ..... it was also folding very stong hands when it was getting reraised.... so i was shitting it.... there are bots what are playng excelent but the kit is expansive and also you need to fine tune em to be like your style of play is and thats not easy....... and those who are playng at 24 tables are bots .. noone can ... may be if you use a program what is pressing the time bank button and you play only frst group starting hands... may be.... but i dont believe someone can play 24 tables without to go in sit out almost eveytime at last in 19 of 24 tables lol... i play PLO at 4 tables and its just hard

17Fabrizio17 said:

I suppose that the perfect field to implemet a bot is in limit holdem, a so called "solved game". Differently in no limit holdem there are more elements to factor in besides the pure mathematical principles.

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The University of Alberta ran a Limit Heads up competition against 2 really good Limit HU specialists - I can't remember the result. But they were playing a form of 'duplicate poker' (whole 'nother story). But it was pretty evenly matched, and I don't think even the game theory / AI researchers consider that game 'solved' much less NLHE.

________ANGF said:

nope .... i bought a few monts ago a nlh bot.... i bought also a profile plaing style lol..... it was acting pretty good at nlh but it was doing bs like that one of the
hand above ..... it was also folding very stong hands when it was getting reraised.... so i was shitting it.... there are bots what are playng excelent but the kit is expansive and also you need to fine tune em to be like your style of play is and thats not easy....... and those who are playng at 24 tables are bots .. noone can ... may be if you use a program what is pressing the time bank button and you play only frst group starting hands... may be.... but i dont believe someone can play 24 tables without to go in sit out almost eveytime at last in 19 of 24 tables lol... i play PLO at 4 tables and its just hard

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Your admission of buying bots disturbs me, and your implication that people cannot possibly play 24 tables without bots makes me LOL. If t's hard for you to play 4 tables, then that tells me you don't have much experience multi-tabling and the necessary changes in strategy to do so -- you can't play the same game multi-tabling that you do single-tabling. And you certainly don't seem to be aware of the top grinders who do play that many tables. Hell, I'm a mediocre player at best and I have no trouble playing 12-16 tables, which is the most I've ever tried (FT only allows 18). I used to play 9-12 for hours on end every day for a couple of months, before burning out.

This thread is becoming more like the rigged thread with every day that passes - pity.