When you have a friend at the table

cAPSLOCK · Sep 22, 2009

Zorba said:
wtf did he think was happening when he was calling, was he playing for a split pot

^^
Here is the key.

He was playing for ALL YOUR CHIPS. That's what he wanted.

When he lost he threw a little guilt your way... understandable though contemptible.

Bottom line is he had at least 3 or 4 chances to save his chips. There is only one reason he didn't take one of those chances.

Grindit9 · Sep 22, 2009

Ive played multiple times in vegas with 3 friends at the table. 2 of them are kind of nitty so i do not play a lot of pots against them, but my other friend he also tends to play LAG like me in live poker. So i played a lot of hands against him. Best hand was UTG raises to 10 (1-2 game), i call in middle position and my friend raises to 20 in the BB. UTG calls i call. Flop: 3c-8c-Js Utg checks, i bet 40, my friend folds, UTG folds. I take the pot and turn over 72 off

. Obviously this move will kill you if you do it to often, but just wanted to turn it over in a decent size pot once as a bluff

.

wayschaff · Sep 22, 2009

i personally dont care who i sit with to play. me and my boss used to play heads games for 5 or 10 bucks when werent busy. if you sit down with me and lose its not my problem. everyone plays for the same reasons, so they wouldnt have a problem taking my money. and i for sure wouldnt feel bad about taking money from friends and family. my family knowns not to play poker with me because i am a very serious play and i dont like to mess around with ppl who dont know how to play. which is why i hate playing for free when playing live.

Johnnybmoto · Sep 22, 2009

I play against my dad all the time at the casino. I have quite a few people tell me they were surprised at how hard we play against each other.

kybcat · Sep 22, 2009

If he is a good friend he would know how you play and would have got out

whoopwhoop · Sep 22, 2009

I wouldn't play with friends unless it is a home game. At casinos, I go with my friends and we always sit at different tables. It usually works out pretty well.

Nexus6 · Sep 22, 2009

For me it depends on how my stack is doing and how his or hers is doing. If Im up allot and he or she is down allot I will take it easy on them and win a smaller pot. If he or she is a friend outside poker then this stands true even more. But if she or he is a poker friend then this pretty much doesn't apply , I just take their money.. The Poker friend no matter what they say totally knows the truth without any words being said. Your friend if he is a poker friend is acting like a unexperienced player. If he is a friend outside of poker and he was loosing allot and you where winning then you could apply what I said above.

bluespadepoker · Sep 22, 2009

If you check that to showdown, some eyebrows are going to be raised. You had the best hand, and didn't give him an opportunity to trap himself.

ted80 · Sep 23, 2009

i usually play everyone the same. i may not have check-raised my friend though, but sometimes that's a move you want to make if you know they'll c-bet. i probably would have bet it out. if your friend was that great he would have probably realized he was beat. there weren't many hands he could have held that would have beat you...even if he did give up a good handful of chips before folding. and you gotta realize...if he'd sucked you out...he would have been riding you for months on end. buy him a big mac meal and hope he learned his lesson

Divebitch · Sep 23, 2009

Lonsdaleite said:
It would definitely be soft playing and almost collusion. You knew you had the better hand. He played poorly. He kept on calling, which is basically him saying he was willing to take your money, but whine about losing to you. If he wanted to be friendly, he would have folded. He was trying to take your money. It says a lot about your friend. Dump him, he's not really a friend and you can't trust cheaters.

Not sure I would dump a friend for that, but you make excellent points (in bold).

As far as collusion goes, would you be allowed to say something like "buddy, you might be in big trouble" as you shove your stack to the middle? If you were stupid enough to say that to a stranger, they might actually think it's part of your bluff.

But don't the pros say stuff like that all the time on TV? Tell you the truth, friends could easily sport a 'tell' to indicate they should fold or that they are bluffing. Bet it happens all the time. Let the floor guy prove my nose didn't itch.

At any rate, right or wrong, if HU, I'd try to do something to get a friend to fold, like shove. lol If he calls, his problem. He had no right to be mad at anyone but himself for his bad call.

Jarod1231 · Sep 23, 2009

Its not collusion if you two are the only ones in the hand in a cash game... however if there is a third person in the hand it would be considered collusion... or if you guys are pf raising back and forth trying to force everyone out of the hand and then checking it down to river its collusion

BM0529 · Sep 23, 2009

I have a friend who plays with me at the same table maybe 1 or 2 times every other month and the rule we have is that if one raises it up pre-flop or bets the flop and the other has a monster he makes a decent raise to let the other know to get out of the way....if the other calls we will attempt to check it down thereafter assuming nobody else calls or moves in on us. One time we both had K-Q and the flop came Q-Q-10...he bet 10$, I made it 35$, he called and then we both checked it down after that occurred...the entire table did question what the hell we were doing after the hand checking the turn and river however.

2-7MakesMeRaise · Sep 23, 2009

I would take chips off whoever is giving them!
I dont go easy on anyone. Infact I love taking my freinds money

moemtg · Sep 23, 2009

I agree

Homegames yeah take em out... but I would never sit with a homie at in a casino... there are plenty of tables to go around... dont piss off your friends!

Moe.

ean · Sep 23, 2009

BM0529 said:
I have a friend who plays with me at the same table maybe 1 or 2 times every other month and the rule we have is that if one raises it up pre-flop or bets the flop and the other has a monster he makes a decent raise to let the other know to get out of the way....if the other calls we will attempt to check it down thereafter assuming nobody else calls or moves in on us. One time we both had K-Q and the flop came Q-Q-10...he bet 10$, I made it 35$, he called and then we both checked it down after that occurred...the entire table did question what the hell we were doing after the hand checking the turn and river however.

Yes, I understand BM, but do realize also, that even if you have this "understanding" with your friend, that it means you HAVE changed your play, if only slightly, just for each other.

chuG · Sep 23, 2009

Me and my friends might pay a set amount of money for a night in a club or a stay in the cinema or even a meal out. Were paying the same for the same experience, it just so happens that in this experience the money is returned to one or two of you.

Hell whenever one of us wins (which is normally on of us lol) then we might buy the rest tins.

ted80 · Sep 23, 2009

the more i think about it though. i try to beat my friends when there's competition. isn't that the whole point? in relation to the discussion. in high school, i ran cross country, track & field, baseball. with the running sports...many of those guys were my friends...and i was pretty good. good enough to get into college with it. never in any race did i think "well, this guy's my friend, he's hung in there the whole way with me...i can outkick him, no problem...but, i'll just let him have it"...never! beat me if you want it that bad. we're still friends after, whatever. then again money wasn't on the line. it was a hell of a thing, my little brother turned out to be better than me...all of a sudden, he started beating me often. he's the biggest jerk i know on top of it all. you know, one of those guys who's arrogant to a fault. willing to end friendship with his best friend over a minor disagreement. can't lose an argument, can't lose at anything. you think i took it easy on him? he's still my brother...i mean i was happy for him he was good...but damn, when i could beat him, i did it, and made sure to humiliate him as best i could...still brothers right? what's to argue about at the end though? i/you got beat, better luck next time.

swrittenb · Sep 29, 2009

There was a Full Tilt chat session with Phil Ivey where this came out:

QUESTION FROM BGM1: could you ever bluff a godess like shannon elizabeth on pokertable or be gentleman?

ANSWER FROM Phil Ivey: i would bluff my grandmother

Love it! As soon as someone sits down at the table, you have to put everything else aside.

Zorba · Sep 29, 2009

BM0529 said:
I have a friend who plays with me at the same table maybe 1 or 2 times every other month and the rule we have is that if one raises it up pre-flop or bets the flop and the other has a monster he makes a decent raise to let the other know to get out of the way....if the other calls we will attempt to check it down thereafter assuming nobody else calls or moves in on us. One time we both had K-Q and the flop came Q-Q-10...he bet 10$, I made it 35$, he called and then we both checked it down after that occurred...the entire table did question what the hell we were doing after the hand checking the turn and river however.

Sorry to say this to a fellow CCer but what you are doing with your friend here is straight out cheating.

ukaliks · Sep 29, 2009

Poker is buisness at the table. No1 is friends while playing in a hand. Off the table or out of the hand it's back to reality and all the friendly talk comes out, but during a hand im going 4 the kill, friend or not.
Anyways if u checked ur jacks all the way the casino would of seen it as soft play and u'd get told off so meh.
If he is upset bout it then tell him to aviod tables with u if he doesnt wanna loose against u.

Bobjim37 · Sep 30, 2009

I actually found this fron Daniel Negreanu, should conclude the matter

Daniel Negreanu – Tip of the Week

Soft Playing is Cheating: Go big, or go home
What I'm about to say may surprise you. You might be a cheater and not even know it.
If you are in a poker game for money and are taking it easy on one of your buddies, you are cheating yourself, your friend, and every other player in the game. I realize that's a bold statement, but it's absolutely true.
In the poker world, we have a term for this type of play. It's called soft playing. When two friends, spouses, relatives or flat-out cheaters don't bet against each other, they're soft playing.
Soft playing destroys the integrity of the game of poker and it's wrong, dead wrong.
I realize that many players have no idea that this behavior is so unethical. More often than not, soft playing (not to be confused with slowplaying) is done innocently with no harm intended. Perhaps a gentleman doesn't want to take a lady's last $20. Or, one player doesn't want to raise his friend because his friend is losing too much money.
Well, if you are so concerned with your buddy losing money, or if you're trying to get a date by not betting against a beautiful woman, try taking them both out to dinner after the game. The poker table is no place for compassion and kindness. I'm sort of kidding, but I think you get the idea.

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/php...&zoneid=5&source=&dest=http://www.pokervt.com

Mortis · Sep 30, 2009

I wouldn't play cash games with friends. A tournament would be totally different.. but if you did just check it down with your friend, they could consider that "softplaying" in the casino, which (as far as I know) is not allowed. At least it's not in online games.. but I have never played live cash games before, let alone a cash game with a friend.

luckforsome · Sep 30, 2009

To be honest Id be disappointed to read that you didnt clean him out..why would you sit at a cash game, with one aim only(MAKE MONEY).then check when u know you can get money..if your friend thinks its unfair, then he should be playing bingo with his granny...id bet he woulda cleaned u out twice at once if he could...so fair play, Poker is poker, friends are friedns...they dont mix...

doops · Sep 30, 2009

I play often with online friends, and have played in casinos with friends also. We have no issue with taking each other out, at any time, ever. We are even nice about it, no matter which side of the beat we are on.

As to you busting your friend... he busted himself. He did not respect your bets, he did not play rationally (i.e., a reraise early on might have clarified to him where he stood, or a fold early on since he did not have enough to take you on), and he screwed himself over. He played stupidly, and you were actually pretty straightforward to keep betting and letting him know you were strong. You did not play sneaky (which is, of course, perfectly acceptable.) He's playing a competitive game, and not for a minute should he be thinking you are going to play poorly. What, you are supposed to go easy on him, like he is a little kid or something? Do NOT think you did this to him. He did it to himself.

Grindit9 · Oct 1, 2009

Zorba said:
Sorry to say this to a fellow CCer but what you are doing with your friend here is straight out cheating.

You do not have to be sorry about this, its collusion and it should be frowned upon.

When you have a friend at the table

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