The Art of Bluffing (Day 11 Course Discussion)

Phyrrura · Oct 18, 2020

The ultimate art

bluffing is the result of all the poker abilities combined, you need nice reading skills, odds skills, value betting adequately. It's sure the ultimate fun too.

Rob Hobson · Oct 18, 2020

Recreational players think the pros bluffs frequently, as they see in tv. They do it very seldom. bluff is a brilliant part of the poker but not really a strategy itself.

PLAYFUL1 · Oct 18, 2020

Bluffing in Poker is not the greatest thing to do. Too many variables to consider like pot odds , positioning and chip stacks, That's why Playful isn't any good in bluffin there is not enuff time

Collin Moshman · Oct 20, 2020

Rob Hobson said:
Recreational players think the pros bluffs frequently, as they see in tv. They do it very seldom. Bluff is a brilliant part of the poker but not really a strategy itself.

I think that's an interesting point because it really depends on who they're up against. Against other pros they should bluff a lot more as part of a GTO-type strategy. But when pros are playing against recreational players, they probably shut down their bluffs a lot of the time knowing that they're going to get called too often -- in part for "story equity"

("I played against Johnny Chan and called because I thought he was bluffing!")

Daddysprincess99 · Dec 8, 2020

This chapter is the hardest for me cause:
Takeaway #2: Make sure that you’re picking hands to bluff that won’t likely win at showdown.

Ha I'd be too afraid to try this with a calling station or someone with deep stacks :argh:

Collin Moshman · Dec 9, 2020

Daddysprincess99 said:
This chapter is the hardest for me cause:
Takeaway #2: Make sure that you’re picking hands to bluff that won’t likely win at showdown.

Ha I'd be too afraid to try this with a calling station or someone with deep stacks :argh:

Interesting! Do you mean because if you have a hand with showdown value you would want to value bet it instead against the calling station?

Daddysprincess99 · Dec 9, 2020

Collin Moshman said:
Interesting! Do you mean because if you have a hand with showdown value you would want to value bet it instead against the calling station?

No, that wouldn't be so bad. I meant that if I didn't connect on the flop then made a weak hand with the turn that probably won't get better at river I would be nervous to get called on a bluff knowning that my hand don't have much showdown value

Phyrrura · Dec 30, 2020

Guess I'm better at this by now

The bluff, like any other arts, is a skill we can always be improving, guess I'm mastered it a lot since the last time I came here.

If I can give some tip, is just try on your bluffs and you'll lean a lot with your succesfull bluffs, but mainly with your mistakes.

antonis32123 · Jan 5, 2021

The c-bet is classic , so it is 2 more players ok to bluff with cbet but three more players (4 total) no , correct?? It makes sense

i like the scare card , if you are in the blinds , the pattern is paired , you donk bet or just bet if the all limped (better ) , and you take it there , one good example , or with one player on the turn a scare card to take advantage of , try to scare him out of the hand , very cheaply it's ok for me , dependingly on the foe , that's why good notes come in handy , or good memory , lol

Katie Dozier · Jan 5, 2021

antonis32123 said:
The c-bet is classic , so it is 2 more players ok to bluff with cbet but three more players (4 total) no , correct?? It makes sense

i like the scare card , if you are in the blinds , the pattern is paired , you donk bet or just bet if the all limped (better ) , and you take it there , one good example , or with one player on the turn a scare card to take advantage of , try to scare him out of the hand , very cheaply it's ok for me , dependingly on the foe , that's why good notes come in handy , or good memory , lol

While there are a lot of exceptions, in general, yes that’s correct! Way to go

imnoobpoker · Jan 10, 2021

Thank you for day 11. When I just started playing poker, I was more on the bluffing side then playing real poker. After training and following these video's (until now), I'm less bluffing and playing more real poker. Also this results in better stats then before, thank you for that!

However, in the video the last hand, I have a question about this. The play the Hero makes, I do that sometimes. However, if my opponent has the same stack of chips against my 1000 chips (as in the video), the opponent will re raise me. Why should he fold, when he has more chips then I do and he can kick me out of the tournament. What is the best way, to avoid these situations of re-raising from a better stack player.
-> in the video the opponent fold, but low stacks is not that very often the case.

Collin Moshman · Jan 10, 2021

Players who make wild plays because they have you covered are (generally) making a mistake. Unless it's the bubble or they're exploiting clear risk aversion, they shouldn't raise and reraise you just because they can bust you.

When I say "shouldn't", I mean that if a reraise won't be profitable at a given effective stack, it still won't be profitable if your opponent has a lot more chips and the effective stack stays the same. So don't worry, just focus on identifying player types and responding well to maniacs who are raising/reraising a lot by calling them down much lighter

fundiver199 · Jan 10, 2021

imnoobpoker said:
Why should he fold, when he has more chips then I do and he can kick me out of the tournament.

Except in bounty tournaments there is no reward for kicking other players out of the tournament. The way, you level up and ultimately win the tournament, is by accumulating chips. Even in bounty tournaments you will often see people getting it in to light, when they can win a bounty, and lose a big chunk of their stack as a result.

xOneCoolHandx · Jan 20, 2021

Quiz

1, Not really even with your whole range. Straight draws got there but flush draws did not and this card is really good for the opponents range overall and I would be checking with some overpairs, some sets and straights to induce my opponent to bluff.

2. Great scare card to bluff that doesn't complete the flush or give 4 to a straight. If I hit a jack here, I would probably check behind or call a bet.

kanycta99 · Jan 20, 2021

bluffing at micro stakes is unjustified. call more often. bluffing in the later stages of the tournament is already necessary. but you need to study your opponent.

Collin Moshman · Jan 21, 2021

kanycta99 said:
bluffing at micro stakes is unjustified.call more often.bluffing in the later stages of the tournament is already necessary.but you need to study your opponent.

I agree to bluff less at the micros, but there will still be plenty of good bluffing opportunities if you're looking for them

Floki360 · Jan 31, 2021

What a great course

This is definitely good stuff, this course you can sell for money. My game improved so much, thank you.

Collin Moshman · Feb 1, 2021

Floki360 said:
This is definitely good stuff, this course you can sell for money. My game improved so much, thank you.

Thanks for these nice words Floki, we're glad you're enjoying the course!

David macdonald · Apr 28, 2021

You definately need to evaluate you opponenets play and have the right scare cards in play to bluff. Bluffing is so important in poker.

henriquemaduro · May 23, 2021

At the Hand 11-1, if villain calls the turn, what river situation did we should keep betting? another non-diamonds low card?

Tomek416 · May 23, 2021

David macdonald said:
You definately need to evaluate you opponenets play and have the right scare cards in play to bluff. Bluffing is so important in poker.

I agree. I tried many times to bluff when there is a flush or straight draw on the board, and I got burned only a few times.

Dhembhe · May 23, 2021

Bluffing works best against rational players

Dhembhe · May 23, 2021

Bluffing should be used sparingly, as indiscriminate use decreases its effectiveness

Marcos1315 · Jan 10, 2022

I had used this (https://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=299681&stc=1&d=1641824191) as the range of the opponent (question 2 of the quiz) on the river. Some hands suited are only spades (32s, for instance). I think the opponent would've called the c-bet with those hands.
Based on UTG standard range, hero has sets with 9 and 7, overpairs and a lot of overcards.

I didn't change the range after the flop because villain could be slow-playing the turn and playing the river carefully because of the Ace.

Based on that, I did some calculations.

If hero checks, he wins 20% of the time, 32 400.

If hero bets (900, as it was) and villain calls only with Ax, two pairs or straight (32.5% of the combos), hero loses 29 250 and win 109 308, getting 80 058.

This logic is correct? It makes sense?

barbados · Jan 13, 2022

Bluff is a dialogue from an old movie:
— Do you have a fiancee? - There is! Only she doesn't know about it yet. —What's her name?" —I don't know that yet...

The Art of Bluffing (Day 11 Course Discussion)

Phyrrura

Rock Star

Rob Hobson

Legend

PLAYFUL1

Legend

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

Daddysprincess99

Enthusiast

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

Daddysprincess99

Enthusiast

Phyrrura

Rock Star

antonis32123

Legend

Katie Dozier

Poker Expert

imnoobpoker

Rock Star

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

fundiver199

Legend

xOneCoolHandx

Legend

kanycta99

Rock Star

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

Floki360

Rising Star

Collin Moshman

Poker Expert

David macdonald

Legend

henriquemaduro

Visionary

Tomek416

Visionary

Dhembhe

Enthusiast

Dhembhe

Enthusiast

Marcos1315

Rock Star

barbados

Legend

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