Holdem tip from a long time player

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gofish

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The mistake I see most beginners make is they only rely on the strength of their hand to determine whether they should check or raise. In my experience most fail to look beyond this and consider their position and ranges of their opponents.

You are playing the game all wrong if you are only relying on hand strength. If you're losing a lot then this maybe the reason why.

First and foremost, whether it is a cash game or tournament, always start out playing really tight for a while and only play monster hands, unless you're big blind where you can always loosen up your range a bit. Instead use this time to focus on observing your opponents at the table. Look for their betting patterns, their ranges, are they aggressive? etc. It is really important to understand what starting hands they min raise, 3 bet or 4 bet with, that way when you have a strong hand like AK+ you will know if you have their range beat.

Secondly, using the above knowledge make sure to take advantage of that when you're 'in position'.

For example let's assume a 9 seat table. You're big blind and player 3 has min raised on the button.. from observing his previous hands you know this min raise is most likely a hand like Q10. You have KQ, which means you can feel safe raising here with a 3 bet. Now if player 3 just calls you can put a bigger percentage on a hand like Q10 for example. On the other hand if player 3 has a really tight range and play then this min raise maybe AKs+, so you should only call this bet with KQ and then proceed very cautiously.

Believe it or not hand strength is actually a small part to play. The most profitable players will always use the above knowledge to their advantage.

Good luck at the tables. 🙂
 
gofish said:
only play monster hands, unless you're big blind where you can always loosen up your range a bit.
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That's interesting. Are you advocating playing more loosely from the big blind than from the button?
 
Bobomb said:
That's interesting. Are you advocating playing more loosely from the big blind than from the button?
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Eek. I explained that badly. What I mean is if only one other play in the pot and you can check or min call to see a flop then do that, usually from big blind pre-flop. So I mean more loose in the sense of making min calls against one player. Later on after being tight then of course loosen up from the button too.

So yes, when playing tight early on only call with slightly weaker hands if against one player and if only min raise. And only continue if you hit a big hand.

IMO
 
I agree 100% with the above written. I wanted to emphasize that it is necessary to study the enemy at the table and not to hurry with high stakes!
 
Some are just stronger due to the large stack and sometimes doing ridiculous moves with nothing except over pair
 
gofish said:
For example let's assume a 9 seat table. You're big blind and player 3 has min raised on the button.. from observing his previous hands you know this min raise is most likely a hand like Q10. You have KQ, which means you can feel safe raising here with a 3 bet. Now if player 3 just calls you can put a bigger percentage on a hand like Q10 for example. On the other hand if player 3 has a really tight range and play then this min raise maybe AKs+, so you should only call this bet with KQ and then proceed very cautiously.
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Don't put players on single hands preflop. Villain can easily have AQ if there opening range includes Q10.

Instead, put your opponent on a range of hands they could be opening with and accordingly to how your hand fairs against that range. As the hand progresses, you can adjust that range. If your start with a range of 20 possible opening hands, by the time you get to the river, you should have only a few hands you can put your opponent on.
 
ohshootmybad said:
Don't put players on single hands preflop. Villain can easily have AQ if there opening range includes Q10.

Instead, put your opponent on a range of hands they could be opening with and accordingly to how your hand fairs against that range. As the hand progresses, you can adjust that range. If your start with a range of 20 possible opening hands, by the time you get to the river, you should have only a few hands you can put your opponent on.
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Yes, I didn't mean a single hand. I meant a range, I wasn't sure how else I could give an example of having their range beat though.

Thanks
 
gofish said:
The mistake I see most beginners make is they only rely on the strength of their hand to determine whether they should check or raise. In my experience, most fail to look beyond this and consider their position and ranges of their opponents.
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Interesting. In my experience, most beginners do the opposite and seem to completely ignore the strength of their hand, instead trying to play iffy hands out of position like they see on TV. Beginners play other beginners, so there really is no knowing their opponents ranges. Beginners tend to play pretty much any two for pretty much any amount.

Just my two cents.
 
G-Bucks or Galfond Dollars. It works to balance your game, to explore leaks and control the bad runs.
 
gofish said:
Yes, I didn't mean a single hand. I meant a range, I wasn't sure how else I could give an example of having their range beat though.

Thanks
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Use an equity calculator and plug in a hand range vs your hand.

For example, lets say villain will open the pot with: 77-AA, 78s-910s, all suited/unsuited broadway, A8s-AKs, A10o-AKo for a range of 13.5%

With KQs, you're a slight favorite at ~51% pre. But with KQo, you're a ~48% underdog.
 
I agree. You dont play your hand, you play the player you are up against.
You can even win with garbage hands if you play your situation right, and you can lose with a monster hand if you fell in love with it and did not bother to read the cards on the table anymore.
 
ohshootmybad said:
Use an equity calculator and plug in a hand range vs your hand.

For example, lets say villain will open the pot with: 77-AA, 78s-910s, all suited/unsuited broadway, A8s-AKs, A10o-AKo for a range of 13.5%

With KQs, you're a slight favorite at ~51% pre. But with KQo, you're a ~48% underdog.
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Careful here, if you are using this information to determine if you should raise or not. If you're considering raising, not calling, then you need to run your equity against the range of hands he continues with after your bet. If he's folding the worst of his range, it is possible that you won't have an advantage anymore.

Also, a 51% showdown equity (which is what the calculators show) doesn't mean calling pre-flop is going to be instantly profitable either. You have several streets left where more money could go into the pot and where you might be forced to fold. Certain hands will have a harder time realizing their equity when out of position, especially if your opponent is aggressive.
 
vinnie said:
Also, a 51% showdown equity (which is what the calculators show) doesn't mean calling pre-flop is going to be instantly profitable either. You have several streets left where more money could go into the pot and where you might be forced to fold. Certain hands will have a harder time realizing their equity when out of position, especially if your opponent is aggressive.
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Hi Vinnie, can you give a practical example? I'm sure I've faced your example and maybe even followed your recommended course of action but I have a difficult time picturing it atm.
 
gofish said:
First and foremost, whether it is a cash game or tournament, always start out playing really tight for a while and only play monster hands, unless you're big blind where you can always loosen up your range a bit.
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Can't say I agree with that. Big blind you're in poor position for the whole hand. Why would you advocate playing a lot of hands out of position?

I'm hoping you meant late position like the button or cutoff..?
 
LOL.... and we wonder why many new players just play according to the cards they are dealt!
 
I appreciate any and all advice I can get on this forum
This is what It's here for. Let's all help eachother and learn from eachother!
 
darthdimsky said:
Hi Vinnie, can you give a practical example? I'm sure I've faced your example and maybe even followed your recommended course of action but I have a difficult time picturing it atm.
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There are many spots, and it can depend a lot on the other player's range and behavior. A typical example would be something like a medium pair. In the above hand range, 99 has a 52% advantage over the given range of AA-77, all suited and unsuited broadways, suited connectors down to 87s, and suited Aces down to A8s.

There are very few flops, turns, and rivers where you will be happy against an aggressive opponent with 99. Basically, you're only happy with flops where you hit a set and the cards stay low. Even a flop of 7-3-2, which is really good for you, has a lot of ugly turns and rivers. Two thirds of the time the turn or river will bring a 10 or higher. It won't, necessarily, mean you're beat but you'll be stuck guessing with few outs to improve.

Even the flops that "hit" his range, you still have a lot of equity against. A flop of K-3-2, hits part of your opponent's range. And, it's one you're probably going to have to give up on against a bunch of action. Even if you call the flop, you probably will give up on the turn or river. But, you have a significant amount of equity against his whole range. Only 29% of his range hits that board. And, you're stuck guessing out of position when that happens.

You can't really set-mine and give up when you miss, unless the button is hyper aggressive, because you don't often make enough when you hit.

There are other spots, but this is just an example. Of course, in this spot, you might choose to 3-bet pre-flop and that's a different dynamic for this specific hand. There are other hands where your equity is close, but your playability is horrible post flop. That's calling with A-x and K-x type hands where the x is likely worse than your opponent's kicker for similar hands. Against his whole range, you're probably good and hitting the Ace or King would make you the best hand, but it's going to be hard to tell where you're at.
 
vinnie said:
There are many spots, and it can depend a lot on the other player's range and behavior. A typical example would be something like a medium pair. In the above hand range, 99 has a 52% advantage over the given range of AA-77, all suited and unsuited broadways, suited connectors down to 87s, and suited Aces down to A8s.

There are very few flops, turns, and rivers where you will be happy against an aggressive opponent with 99. Basically, you're only happy with flops where you hit a set and the cards stay low. Even a flop of 7-3-2, which is really good for you, has a lot of ugly turns and rivers. Two thirds of the time the turn or river will bring a 10 or higher. It won't, necessarily, mean you're beat but you'll be stuck guessing with few outs to improve.

Even the flops that "hit" his range, you still have a lot of equity against. A flop of K-3-2, hits part of your opponent's range. And, it's one you're probably going to have to give up on against a bunch of action. Even if you call the flop, you probably will give up on the turn or river. But, you have a significant amount of equity against his whole range. Only 29% of his range hits that board. And, you're stuck guessing out of position when that happens.

You can't really set-mine and give up when you miss, unless the button is hyper aggressive, because you don't often make enough when you hit.

There are other spots, but this is just an example. Of course, in this spot, you might choose to 3-bet pre-flop and that's a different dynamic for this specific hand. There are other hands where your equity is close, but your playability is horrible post flop. That's calling with A-x and K-x type hands where the x is likely worse than your opponent's kicker for similar hands. Against his whole range, you're probably good and hitting the Ace or King would make you the best hand, but it's going to be hard to tell where you're at.
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Thanks for the detailed reply! 🙂
 
darthdimsky said:
Thanks for the detailed reply! 🙂
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No problem. It was less illuminating than I thought, mainly because I was using the tight range from the post I responded to. Against a loose aggressive button open, like someone opening 60% of their hands on the button, you have hands like K7s, Q9s, JTs, 33, A2o, K9o, etc... all of which have >50% equity against the opening range of the button, but all of which have playability problems on most flops.
 
Sound general advice, which lends itself to the artistry of poker in consideration of the mathematics.
 
vinnie said:
No problem. It was less illuminating than I thought, mainly because I was using the tight range from the post I responded to. Against a loose aggressive button open, like someone opening 60% of their hands on the button, you have hands like K7s, Q9s, JTs, 33, A2o, K9o, etc... all of which have >50% equity against the opening range of the button, but all of which have playability problems on most flops.
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I actually started visualizing it when you gave the 99 example with the 30% odds of T+ hitting the board. Then everything you said fell into place. This is where I exploit my nitty table image for a 2/3rd pot as a probe. I face problems when there are 2 T+ cards on the flop because they tend to flat with second pair/flush/straight draw making it difficult to decide on the 2nd and possible 3rd barrel.
 
Actually, there is a 79.2% chance that the flop with contain at least one card higher than a 9, when you hold 9-9. On the flops where you are fortunate enough to hold an over-pair, the turn will be a 10+ 42.6% of the time. Survive that and the river will bring a 10+ 43.5% of the time. Your odds of dodging both is only 32.5%.

29% of the time, the flop will contain two cards higher than a 9 and about 5.8% of the time it will be three broadway cards. So, 35% of the time you're going to flop really poorly. But, that's not a huge deal. All hands have some flops which just kill them.

It isn't that these hands can't be played, or don't have value. It is that it is really hard to realize their full value when out of position. If you have some fold-equity (post-flop), it helps a lot.
 
vinnie said:
Actually, there is a 79.2% chance that the flop with contain at least one card higher than a 9, when you hold 9-9. On the flops where you are fortunate enough to hold an over-pair, the turn will be a 10+ 42.6% of the time. Survive that and the river will bring a 10+ 43.5% of the time. Your odds of dodging both is only 32.5%.

29% of the time, the flop will contain two cards higher than a 9 and about 5.8% of the time it will be three broadway cards. So, 35% of the time you're going to flop really poorly. But, that's not a huge deal. All hands have some flops which just kill them.

It isn't that these hands can't be played, or don't have value. It is that it is really hard to realize their full value when out of position. If you have some fold-equity (post-flop), it helps a lot.
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I am super excited to try out all your math you dished out on an EV calc (which I can't atm cuz Stars is open).

I'm going to say this at the risk of sounding like a huge fan girl. You are the most mathematically inclined player I've met on the CC forums and dispense your knowledge so willingly I've become a huge fan of yours. Lots of respect to you sir! 😀
 
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