BelgoSuisse said:
Well yeah, but my point wasn't that it doesn't matter, just that it's not as important. Missing value on the flop or turn isn't a huge deal since you can just bet larger on later streets to make up for it in most spots. Missing value on the river is a disaster since there's no further action. If you only bet 2/3 pot instead of like 3/4 or full pot on the flop, you can just pot the turn and pot the river to make up for it. If you only bet 2/3 pot on the river, and you could have easily gotten away with full pot or more, it sucks and can kill your WR if you're constantly missing value like that.
And I don't want people to get confused and think I'm advocating you should always bet really big on the river. It's about picking the bet size that yields the highest EV. It just happens to be that in the micros, this is generally a larger bet since most people don't think too much about bet sizes when deciding how to act. So a full pot bet is most likely going to get called just as often as a 2/3 pot bet.
Hey folks. Just thought I'd post in this thread considering I've started playing cash seriously for the first time. Playing 10 NL at Stars and I'm up 5 buy-ins after almost 3k hands. So I think I've made a decent start, but it's early days. Will probably play another session tomorrow 🙂 Wish me luck everyone.
P.S Can we post hands in here for analysis or should we post them in the HA forum?
P.S Can we post hands in here for analysis or should we post them in the HA forum?
Windows vista has me on life tilt atm!!! I hate it soo much.
Bought a new laptop yesterday which has came pre-loaded with vista obv, i've tried setting up pokertracker and sql but its just not working grrrrr, decided to buy an OEM Xp from amazon but before i ordered it i thought i'd check to see if there were xp drivers for all my devices, my wlan adapter doesn't have any xp drivers!!!! this is sending me crazy b/c i haven't played poker for like 2 weeks now and i'm going nuts, vista can go suck my plums because its terrible!! i want xp back but i don't think i'm going to be able to unless i sacrifice my wireless connection 🙁
Bought a new laptop yesterday which has came pre-loaded with vista obv, i've tried setting up pokertracker and sql but its just not working grrrrr, decided to buy an OEM Xp from amazon but before i ordered it i thought i'd check to see if there were xp drivers for all my devices, my wlan adapter doesn't have any xp drivers!!!! this is sending me crazy b/c i haven't played poker for like 2 weeks now and i'm going nuts, vista can go suck my plums because its terrible!! i want xp back but i don't think i'm going to be able to unless i sacrifice my wireless connection 🙁
orangepeeleo said:
You have to be logged in as administrator or something like that to make it work. It always gave me an error message until I disabled (or enabled, can't remember now) some server level ... something or other. Sorry I can't be more exact, but it's a setting you have to change to make things work. Every time I install a new program on Vista, it doesn't work at first until I change that setting (whatever it is).
Anybody remember what it's called? I'm on an XP machine right now, but my poker laptop is Vista, and it's fine, really -- just a little different.
Anyone got a good article on hand ranges? I'm lacking in that department because at 10nl and below it was just nutpeddle. Now im at 25nl and starting to see some halfway competent regs (compared to my spewtard skills). Like i looked at c9's post and just went "uuuuuuhhhhhhh".
Caseace48 said:
Lol i'm kinda getting the hang of it now, the UAC in vista is just a huuuge pain in the ass and it was giving me all sorts of problems the other day, i'm sure i'll get used to it though, the main reason for my monkey tilt was of my own doing though, never ran the stack builder prog after i installed postgres so it wasn't working properly, serves me right for trying to fly through the installation and get some poker in lol.
In other news, I started stacking tables instead of cascading them yesterday and it's so much better for me, i can see me getting up to 10+ tables like this b/c it's sooo much easier 😀
Alright guys, let's get a discussion going since this thread has been mostly whining or bragging or otherwise just copying the May chat thread 😛.
Topic is handling 3-bets pre-flop. For those of you who have HEM, go into your reports and if you don't already have them, add these two stats: vs 3Bet call and vs 3Bet fold.
Over 223k hands, my vs 3Bet call is 42.7% My vs 3Bet fold is 47.4%.
As you can see, I call 3-bets pre-flop a lot, but there's a simple reason for that. At the lowest stakes, people just do not know how to 3-bet at all. You'll see 3-bet sizes as low as min-raising, to 1.5x, to 2x, etc. Obviously it also depends on stack sizes, your opponent's playing tendencies, blah blah blah. At probably 25nl and above, you start to see some appropriately sized 3-bets (roughly 3x or more). Question is, what's your calling range generally? With what range are you choosing to flat with? What range are you choosing to 4-bet with the intention of calling a shove? What range are we choosing to muck? I think this may be a leak that a lot of people may have. Playing 3-bet pots can tend to get tricky, and first we must start from the very beginning, pre-flop action, before we can delve into the fun flop stuff. 6-max and FR players, post your two 3-bet pf stats and let's get a discussion going.
Topic is handling 3-bets pre-flop. For those of you who have HEM, go into your reports and if you don't already have them, add these two stats: vs 3Bet call and vs 3Bet fold.
Over 223k hands, my vs 3Bet call is 42.7% My vs 3Bet fold is 47.4%.
As you can see, I call 3-bets pre-flop a lot, but there's a simple reason for that. At the lowest stakes, people just do not know how to 3-bet at all. You'll see 3-bet sizes as low as min-raising, to 1.5x, to 2x, etc. Obviously it also depends on stack sizes, your opponent's playing tendencies, blah blah blah. At probably 25nl and above, you start to see some appropriately sized 3-bets (roughly 3x or more). Question is, what's your calling range generally? With what range are you choosing to flat with? What range are you choosing to 4-bet with the intention of calling a shove? What range are we choosing to muck? I think this may be a leak that a lot of people may have. Playing 3-bet pots can tend to get tricky, and first we must start from the very beginning, pre-flop action, before we can delve into the fun flop stuff. 6-max and FR players, post your two 3-bet pf stats and let's get a discussion going.
kleitches said:
3bet Fold: 70%
3bet Call: 22.2%
I think its a case at the micro stakes is that a 3bet generally means a stronger hand. You wont get many people squeezing or playing back at you from the blinds at all with weaker hands so when people do 3bet it is generally a stronger hand. This is where you take advantage by 3betting wider but not too wide vs villians because people dont really fold to 3bets much either which is what something zach picked up from 50nl.
These are all villian dependent and also position dependent. What are villians 3bet %, are they playing back at you from the blinds alot, are they a squeezy player. Also if you flat it may depend on you hand range, because if you 4bet with a strong hand from EP its just saying I have AA/KK so people may flat instead. However in late people may 4bet shove like JJ/QQ blinds vs button to make it look like a semi bluff shove.
Question is, what's your calling range generally?
With what range are you choosing to flat with?
What range are you choosing to 4-bet with the intention of calling a shove? What range are we choosing to muck?
I know this was probs the answer you expect "it depends" but I used to ask the same questions and it really does depend. There isnt a set way to play poker you have to adjust to villians,tables,position, stats all these things must affect your plays. Also I have only 4bet bluff from the blinds twice so far over 50k hands at 50nl and one guy shoved and one guy folded lol so I dont know much about 4betting sorry.
The best article on ranges is probably OMGClayAiken's, but it's very advanced reading, tbh. And not really applicable at low stakes. But worth a read anyway.
'G Bucks' Conceptualizing Money Matters.
'G Bucks' Conceptualizing Money Matters.
