Collin Moshman said:
Hey Collin, just watched the day 16 vid, really informative stuff.
Just need some clarity on something! Before the first hand example (Jd5d) you discuss checking top pair back on a fairly dry board to allow others to catch up. But then in the Jd5d example you bet the flop and suggest 3 bets. Why is this? Is it because Ax Kx Qx hands are likely to call? Was a bit confused as you'd just explained why you checked a Kx hand in the flop. 🙂
thanks
Thanks Doofus and great question.
With the Jd5d, top pair is normally very strong in a blind-vs-blind spot and our opponent can call with plenty of draws, weaker hands and floats. This includes hands like 93, K4, T7, A2, and 8h6h. So I would be aggressive looking to get value given how strong our hand is and how many worse hands can call at least one bet ... hope that helps!
With the Jd5d, top pair is normally very strong in a blind-vs-blind spot and our opponent can call with plenty of draws, weaker hands and floats. This includes hands like 93, K4, T7, A2, and 8h6h. So I would be aggressive looking to get value given how strong our hand is and how many worse hands can call at least one bet ... hope that helps!
Day 16's Topic of Pot Control at the 16:07 mark used the same example of Hero holding 66 with 29929 on the board as Day 9's Topic of Implied odds at the 15:35 mark.
I liked the idea of a river raise as opponent will have a hard time folding to a small raise if they believe there will be a chopped pot.
I liked the idea of a river raise as opponent will have a hard time folding to a small raise if they believe there will be a chopped pot.
Extremely important topic!!
Quiz answer:
I knew the strength of the hand, but I answer 2 bets (because I thought that would mean I would only bet 2 streets) and check the flop.
Now knowing that the number of bets and the number of streets I would bet are two different things, my answer is 3 bets or more.
And I would bet the flop too. I was thinking about letting them get a free card or making them more likely to call my bets later, but it's dangerous against so many opponents. The probability of some of them getting a card to beat you is high. Kx hits a second pair, a flush draw, a pocket pair hits a set, etc.
I think almost every hand needs some protection on the flop in a pot with so many players.
Quiz answer:
I knew the strength of the hand, but I answer 2 bets (because I thought that would mean I would only bet 2 streets) and check the flop.
Now knowing that the number of bets and the number of streets I would bet are two different things, my answer is 3 bets or more.
And I would bet the flop too. I was thinking about letting them get a free card or making them more likely to call my bets later, but it's dangerous against so many opponents. The probability of some of them getting a card to beat you is high. Kx hits a second pair, a flush draw, a pocket pair hits a set, etc.
I think almost every hand needs some protection on the flop in a pot with so many players.
Hm... to say that I am puzzled is to say nothing. I really know in advance how I will act. And even a little bit further. However, I cannot call myself a great poker player. But I am not against such a plot development in my poker career.
Finished day 16...14 to go
I have a question for you guys on the first example that Collin gave. With J5s there on the river, Collin said that he would check/call......my question is: If opponent bets Pot or push all in would you call?
I have a question for you guys on the first example that Collin gave. With J5s there on the river, Collin said that he would check/call......my question is: If opponent bets Pot or push all in would you call?
Day 16: Pot Control and Hand Planning
Stresses the point that your starting hand has a story and you should have an idea before you even enter the pot how the story will develop and turn out before you enter the hand.
Things to consider are position, opponent stack size before you act, and how many bets you should be able to get in on every street and the criteria for folding the hand, all before seeing the flop.
I'm "old school" J5s is a dreadful hand but Ill try to ignore the hand and just enjoy the post flop commentary which I usually like from Collin.
Liked the AA commentary to let the opponent catch up.
I like JTs to see a flop. It can hit a monster and still get away if the betting gets crazy . I'm not folding that for a min raise before the flop.
Really liked the 66 commentary throughout the example from the reason to call to the reason to bet the river was good.
The ebook goes over what the video covers. The K6 example in the ebook gives me a tummy ache but gives warning of how to play the hand and what to do if it doesn't work out but in preplanning I just believe its best to stay away from those hands.
The problem I have with suggesting those type of hands is that beginners and intermediate players is that they will play too many hands that they don't have the experience for and get in over their heads. I really, really don't like those hands and they should be as a last stand, desperation act where you're going to be a 55/45 underdog and thats it. These marginal hands are how the best of the top players mess around with and have a ton of experience playing and can get away from them if the action gets nasty. I cringe watching folks try to emulate that stuff when they're starting out.
Besides the examples, its a good video and gets the preplanning concept of a hand over so that's the most important aspect but the hand selection in the last few lesson examples are killing me. It might be nit picking but . . .
But a good lesson and an important concept to grasp.
Stresses the point that your starting hand has a story and you should have an idea before you even enter the pot how the story will develop and turn out before you enter the hand.
Things to consider are position, opponent stack size before you act, and how many bets you should be able to get in on every street and the criteria for folding the hand, all before seeing the flop.
I'm "old school" J5s is a dreadful hand but Ill try to ignore the hand and just enjoy the post flop commentary which I usually like from Collin.
Liked the AA commentary to let the opponent catch up.
I like JTs to see a flop. It can hit a monster and still get away if the betting gets crazy . I'm not folding that for a min raise before the flop.
Really liked the 66 commentary throughout the example from the reason to call to the reason to bet the river was good.
The ebook goes over what the video covers. The K6 example in the ebook gives me a tummy ache but gives warning of how to play the hand and what to do if it doesn't work out but in preplanning I just believe its best to stay away from those hands.
The problem I have with suggesting those type of hands is that beginners and intermediate players is that they will play too many hands that they don't have the experience for and get in over their heads. I really, really don't like those hands and they should be as a last stand, desperation act where you're going to be a 55/45 underdog and thats it. These marginal hands are how the best of the top players mess around with and have a ton of experience playing and can get away from them if the action gets nasty. I cringe watching folks try to emulate that stuff when they're starting out.
Besides the examples, its a good video and gets the preplanning concept of a hand over so that's the most important aspect but the hand selection in the last few lesson examples are killing me. It might be nit picking but . . .
But a good lesson and an important concept to grasp.
Day 16 finished
First of all, I thank Cardschat for this interesting course.
In poker it's necessary to plan a hand in advance, ie to plan the decisions to be taken according to the reactions taken by our adversaries. This of course depends on the profile of each opponent, his stack and his position.
The quiz answer:
We have AK, a very strong hand and we have hit K, it's obvious to raise to value our hand, most of the time we will be called by a weaker hand like weaker K or some 8 suited or flush draws.
I see it's necessary to bet flop, turn and river except if 2 hearts appear in turn and river, it's in this case that it's necessary to check on the river.
First of all, I thank Cardschat for this interesting course.
In poker it's necessary to plan a hand in advance, ie to plan the decisions to be taken according to the reactions taken by our adversaries. This of course depends on the profile of each opponent, his stack and his position.
The quiz answer:
We have AK, a very strong hand and we have hit K, it's obvious to raise to value our hand, most of the time we will be called by a weaker hand like weaker K or some 8 suited or flush draws.
I see it's necessary to bet flop, turn and river except if 2 hearts appear in turn and river, it's in this case that it's necessary to check on the river.
Most often, pot control is used with good, but not the strongest hands. One of the basic principles of playing no-limit poker is that we want to get the biggest possible pot size with the nuts; and vice versa, we don't want to build up the pot a lot, having a weak or medium-strength combination in our hands. Thus, if we only have a pair and the pot is already quite large (eg 80 blinds) - we have good reason to believe that we are already behind. It's unlikely Villain would build the pot to this size with a worse hand than ours. Thus, if we flop top pair, it's best to play pot control against an aggressive opponent. In this case, we play a check-call out of position, and in position we simply call the opponent's bets or check back. This method of play, in addition to keeping the pot size small, allows us to get another advantage - we can provoke our opponent to bluff bets with a weak pair or without a made hand at all.One of the simplest and most fundamental concepts of the game is this: the stronger your hand, the bigger pot you want to play. Obviously with monsters you want to extract as much value as possible.On the other hand, you will often have hands that, although they have showdown value, are not strong enough to fight for a big pot. With these hands, you want to get to showdown cheaply so that on the one hand you get value from the worst hands, and on the other hand, you lose a minimum of money to the best hands.
Pot control, a concept that I really like, knowing how to do it, you avoid losing a lot of chips in certain hands, speaking of which Collin, the last hand with AK, you say bet all 3 streets, I disagree in theory, the three bets it depends on the turn and the river, doesn't it? A third heart would not make us so comfortable and I say this not because I saw the cards at the end, but really because of the flush possibility.
16/30.
16/30.
mine depends more on the behavior of the other players at the table in a tournament being active in the first hour is crucial. It's important to handle the chips and cards well, although sometimes they leave out fantastic incredible hands and also the clock in the increase of the blinds 🙁
Good lesson! The general principle is that we are playing to have a small pot with a small hand and a large pot with a strong hand.
I think that sometimes I am guilty of making a large bet on the turn if I think I have the best hand. I want to take the hand down right then and there and not give opponents a chance to outdraw me on the turn and river. By sizing the bets I maybe can get more calls and improve my win rate.
I think that sometimes I am guilty of making a large bet on the turn if I think I have the best hand. I want to take the hand down right then and there and not give opponents a chance to outdraw me on the turn and river. By sizing the bets I maybe can get more calls and improve my win rate.
Day 16 completed, becoming a skilled poker player involves thinking strategically, it's crucial to take into account key factors like pot size and effective stacks. This awareness allows you to develop a general strategy to respond to your opponent's actions as the hand unfolds. Adapting to the dynamic nature of poker is essential for success at the tables. Thank you for the lesson!
Hello Poker fans,
My plan is to make three bets of half pot if the board is remains un-coordinated (no other heart). If villain bets before me, I am willing to go 3x raise if it is half pot-sized and call if larger. If there is aggression on a heart on the turn or river and I have no read on the opponent, I will fold to any bet larger than half the pot.
I am usually wary of players who get super aggressive and shove on draws holding Ax suited. With that in mind, I would stick to half pot bets to avoid villain feeling pot committed and shove.
I must say that the practice of deciding how many bets is not one that I use but instead would go step-by-step depending on the community cards.
Thanks for this pretty common spot - it was fun and instructive.
Cheers!
My plan is to make three bets of half pot if the board is remains un-coordinated (no other heart). If villain bets before me, I am willing to go 3x raise if it is half pot-sized and call if larger. If there is aggression on a heart on the turn or river and I have no read on the opponent, I will fold to any bet larger than half the pot.
I am usually wary of players who get super aggressive and shove on draws holding Ax suited. With that in mind, I would stick to half pot bets to avoid villain feeling pot committed and shove.
I must say that the practice of deciding how many bets is not one that I use but instead would go step-by-step depending on the community cards.
Thanks for this pretty common spot - it was fun and instructive.
Cheers!
One of the biggest lessons I took from this topic is that not every strong hand wants to play a huge pot. When I first started playing, I often treated top pair like the nuts and ended up building pots that I wasn't comfortable playing for stacks.
Hand planning and pot control have helped me think ahead instead of reacting street by street. Before I bet, I try to ask myself: "How many bets am I willing to put into this pot with this hand?" That simple question has saved me from a lot of difficult situations.
A question for Collin and Katie: How should we balance pot control with value betting at the micro stakes, where many opponents call too much? Sometimes it feels like checking to control the pot leaves value on the table against weaker players.
Hand planning and pot control have helped me think ahead instead of reacting street by street. Before I bet, I try to ask myself: "How many bets am I willing to put into this pot with this hand?" That simple question has saved me from a lot of difficult situations.
A question for Collin and Katie: How should we balance pot control with value betting at the micro stakes, where many opponents call too much? Sometimes it feels like checking to control the pot leaves value on the table against weaker players.
Day16. Excellent lesson. Breaking down how to properly analyze actions and build a clear plan for the hand before making a decision is super helpful. My thoughts on the quiz questions: 1) We bet three streets; we have top pair with a top kicker. We will often be ahead and get paid off by worse hands. 2) Plan of action: Bet the flop, turn, and river for value unless an opponent raises or a highly threatening card appears—such as one that completes a flush draw or gives the opponent a possible set. Therefore, the plan for the river might need adjustment. Thanks for another great video!