I have began to notice that a lot of players will bet when they are on a draw. I'll see it relatively often if hero has a flush draw or an open-ended straight draw where they will bet when they flop a draw and are checked to in position. Some of them even being pot sized bets. Would it not make sense to check and pick up the free turn? I kind of understand that it gives fold equity to bet, and I can kind of understand if you are out of position and would rather not play out the rest of the hand out of position if you miss, but you would think that those folds become more valuable as action if you hit your draw, specifically in position, right? Just curious, still learning about holdem and this situation seems to come up a lot.
louaylouay said:
It's going to happen, and it's going to happen every single game. They do it because they don't care about the amount of money they have invested in the game.
They don't know how to play, they don't know odds, they don't care about odds, they don't care that they don't know how to play, they don't care about the money they spent to get in the game......they're just there to risk it all to get it all...and if they don't, then then they can come here to CardsChat and complain about the guy that took all their chips and it makes them feel better.
It's going to happen. There is no way to keep it from happening. There is just too much human nature at play in the game.
The less the game costs to get into, the more you see these things happen in the game.
But it happens in high-roller games too. Just nowhere near as often.
Penny people and Thousand dollar people.....just don't think the same, and don't act the same. (mostly...there's always that..one guy)
freerolls, 10cent touraments, $1 tournaments, $10 tournaments, .01/.02 cent Ring games, ...any of the small buyin type games. You need to expect it at those games.
And..they will take all your chips doing it if you are not playing realizing that will do it to you.
It's really a gamble in those games.
I've never sat at a high-roller table ring game, or played one higher than .25 cent.....
but I've watched a lot of them on the sites...and the play is different.
I can only tell you by watching those high games that it still happens, just not as often.
No where near as often.
The cheap seats are chip fest sometimes.
Even a tight playing 1ct/2ct Ring game can change from guys folding to guys calling everything in just a matter of a few minutes.
It's amazing to see it while it's happening. It's like watching the brains in human beings being reprogrammed to play a different game, and the table goes from low hands played to huge hand counts, and...the other stats change...it's really like watching a movie. lol
anyways...
expect it to happen if you're playing poker live or online.
Because it is going to happen, and the lower the price of the game, the more often it will happen. So if you want the big one.....play game to game as solid as you can and the good will come.
I've read alot places here inside of CardsChat.....and some of these players.....are really,really,really good. But they are not making a living off of freerolls either. :ahhhhh:
I personally just like to raise and go allin with anything just because I can and no other reason. I don't even have to have a hand. 😎
good luck at the tables,
There are three problems with checking back:
1. Most of the time you don't complete your draw.
2 When you complete your draw your hand is not always well disguised, (especially true with a flush)
3 There's now less money in the pot than otherwise would've been if you had betted.
Now let's see what betting the flop does for each of these problems.
1. You now can win the hand by making your opponent fold. So you don't need to worry about completing your draw.
2. When you do complete your draw, your hand is now more disguised. Making it more likely to get paid.
3. When you do get paid, you win a bigger pot.
1. Most of the time you don't complete your draw.
2 When you complete your draw your hand is not always well disguised, (especially true with a flush)
3 There's now less money in the pot than otherwise would've been if you had betted.
Now let's see what betting the flop does for each of these problems.
1. You now can win the hand by making your opponent fold. So you don't need to worry about completing your draw.
2. When you do complete your draw, your hand is now more disguised. Making it more likely to get paid.
3. When you do get paid, you win a bigger pot.
Since I do not speak English, I will answer the sentences that I understood. If you are out of position and have a vulnerable hand on a dangerous flop (for example, top pair), then make a bet about 0.67PSB. In the case of a call, the opponent will most likely have a draw. On the turn, his chance of winning falls by half, so you have to make a big bet, because his call is very unprofitable. If you do not have blockers on the draw (for example, the card of the suit that has the draw), then it increases the likelihood that it has draws. Weak players in such situations often bluff when their draws are destroyed. So you can check-call. Sometimes you can bet at 0.33PSB if you have a good hand and you think that your opponent's hand is weaker. The game without position with the draw is very difficult and I think that you should read several books on the strategy of the game, because it is impossible to describe it in a few words.
They can win the small pot if everyone folds to the semi bluff.
They can continue bluffing and representing a strong hand made on the flop all the way to the river if callers haven't improved their hands.
And finally, if they do catch their draw they will have built a larger pot and still might get their lucky catch paid off further because it didn't look like a passive draw,
(or they could miss and get caught out and lose a lot of chips).
They can continue bluffing and representing a strong hand made on the flop all the way to the river if callers haven't improved their hands.
And finally, if they do catch their draw they will have built a larger pot and still might get their lucky catch paid off further because it didn't look like a passive draw,
(or they could miss and get caught out and lose a lot of chips).
In addition to what has been said so far: To raise or not on a draw also depends a on how aggressive everyone has played so far, how the hand has gone - lots of action, multi-way pot, position, do the other players show weakness? There are many reasons that can make betting on a semi-bluff good value play.
Well if you bet in that spot, not only are you rapping a pocket pair or top pair or 2 overs, you also have a flush draw. So your hand in that spot goes from a flush draw to anything your opponent puts you on. I don't always raise, but I like to when their are multiple people in a pot and I have position. Only because most of the time I get a free river card out of a bet on the flop, if I choose to check it through.
darpblog said:
This is spot on. It also helps put you in control of the action more as you're now the aggressor.
I used to wonder too why people bet their draws but I now see more value in it because if we look for the free/cheap turn or river all the time we'll get exploited more in today's game (either on purpose by villian giving us bad odds through correct bet sizing or by donk overbets when villian makes any hand lol). By leading out our strong nutted draws we increase the chance of taking control of the hand, controlling the pot size, and dictating the odds we're paying to draw too as villians won't always re-raise our draw bet
I'll cbet a draw hand all day. Usually I've raised pre-flop anyway and just keeping with appearances of a strong hand. You always want to be drawing to a better hand and leave yourself outs. Yeah sometimes you brick and other times you score big.
Betting it out but carefully is the way to play it. I heard it is 1 out of 3 times you will hit your flush draw from the flop. I agree with the good advice. Being the better here puts you in a position to win the chips in the middle. If you have overs, straight draw, and flush draw on the flop. This is what you want to have to be betting the board contiously.
Most cases you'll hit and win the hand. Checking leaves you the option to save chips cause it might be brick, brick, you never know.
There's a few ways to play it. And it also depends on the chip counts, blinds, positions, and also where you are and how long the tourney has been going on.
This is a good thread. I've always looked into this type of play.
Most cases you'll hit and win the hand. Checking leaves you the option to save chips cause it might be brick, brick, you never know.
There's a few ways to play it. And it also depends on the chip counts, blinds, positions, and also where you are and how long the tourney has been going on.
This is a good thread. I've always looked into this type of play.
eberetta1 said:
For me this is very situational. And it mostly involves needing to have a good understanding of the OPs at the table.
1. If the pot is multiway on the flop and/or turn I will almost always take the check down in position or not. Additionally, depending on the size of the bet and the number of callers before me I'll stick around to catch (hopefully).
2. If I am heads up and in position, this is when I like to bet my draw. Many times you can win the pot outright, but it also adds value to your hand if and when you hit your flush/straight. I normally will do this type of bet on the flop and if I get a free card on the turn take it. This can confuse your OP into thinking you might have a high pair, or two overs and if your card comes on the river, you can get paid out a lot.
3. Going back to point 1, I will bet my draw either in or out of position if the pot was limped pre flop. I do this more out of position, than in, as in many cases when the pot is mulitway and you're last to act, you probably will be calling a continuation bet anyway.
4. In summary, the primary reason to bet your draw is to add value to the pot so that when you finally catch your card, you can get the max if you're called.
Robmrjet said:
You must not watch much high stakes poker dude. The high stakes guys will bet their draws very often as well. Its about implied odds and getting added equity in your marginal hands. You will also see higher level players do things like bet a small pair (to the board) out of position, or even three bet raise. Again, they're most of the time playing to the OPs styles, or in some cases just hoping that their OP puts them on a range completely outside what they have, thus creating a perfectly deceptive scenario that if and/or when the hand improves to the nuts they can get maximum value.
Daniel72 said:
I will bet my draws if my hole cards are over cards to the board almost every time. Some times I will even three bet in position, which can increase the deception when my draw comes. Also, in the case of flush draws, and being heads up, if I have the nut flush draw I will always bet that draw.