Is Online Poker Rigged?

Stingray said:

And what if it even was more hands? You are avoiding the question of what lands on the board. Also it is commonly known that online poker has more action hands than live. AA vs KK or even AA vs KK vs QQ. This you dont know?

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Again I say it is "perceived" that online has more action hands than live because when players play live they are not seeing as many hands as they do Online. I am not avoiding ANY questions. What is your "question"

puzzlefish said:

Instead of calling people liars, provide more details. Where do you play - what sites? There are many people - a majority in fact - that believe in online variance and fair poker site RNGs. You are a minority. Check out the rigged megathread on these forums.

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I wasn't calling them a "liar" I said they were exaggerating.

20% of my play is online at the below places

I play at ACR
Ignition
Bet Online
Intertops

80% of my play is live

some sort of "backdoor" at ACR?

Derifish17 said:

I've never thought it was rigged until now I've played live for a few years and seen some crazy run outs but lately I've joined a new poker site and I'm playing the hand perfectly and then the most crazy run outs of all is happening and it keeps happening not just once or twice but very regular it seems to stupid sometimes. How do professional players like Fedor holtz win millions? Do they never get crazy run outs where they lose hundreds if not thousands like me

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I was playing in a tourney at ACR today and a guy mentioned that he knew a guy showed him a "backdoor" and he's cashed out $60,000 over the past two years. Has anyone else heard of this "backdoor"? It seems to me there's "something up" besides the bad beats 80% of time you play at ACR. There's "lags", so do people have "peeks" to see what's in someone's hand, or what's coming on the flop? Certainly makes ya wonder when people can play ace EVERY time they get it, no matter what position, etc, and they catch the ace 80% of the time...all the while I try the same exact strategy and get BURNED 80% of the time, cuz the site WON'T flop an ace...pretty much anytime I try ANY face card pocket pair pre flop, someone calls me with their ace RAG, and they catch the ace...80% of the time! It's the weirdest thing ever! After playing over 40 years of "live" poker, the "variances" in online are pretty much at the "will of the site", and I will say this time and time again, "A site is only as good as the people who are PRE programming it"...and they missed the mark at ACR.

Stingray said:

Again you are spamming and calling me a lier. You are not counting all the stallers online right? I have seen it for the past month every day ok? The table I play online is 8 handed vs 10 handed live. Look it was even televised and on the tv table it Only happened once all tournament that some Got their AA cracked. It is not much more hands online. Today I played only 20-30 hands and I Got AA cracked on river. Is this a Lie also? Wtf is wrong with you? It does not add up to more hands. Your calculation is not exactly very accurate. What should I Call you then a lier or similar also?

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I still don't understand what you are referring to when you say I'm "spamming" you. Is this some new internet term I'm unaware of??????? Never called you a liar I said you were exaggerating."You are not counting all the stallers online right?" You can count all the stallers online and its still a 4 to 1 advantage towards online getting more hands per hour. I'm not making this stuff up it's all over the place online and you can go to your lobby and watch EVERY table and see that they are averaging 80-100 hands per hour. I've been a live poker dealer for over 17 years and I know exactly how many hands per hour dealers can deal. "The table I play online is 8 handed vs 10 handed live." This is even more in my favor of you seeing more hands online than live.... "Look it was even televised and on the tv table it Only happened once all tournament that some Got their AA cracked" what does this have to do with Anything???????? Today I played only 20-30 hands and I Got AA cracked on river. Is this a Lie also? Is it a lie? I don't know only you know if it's a lie or not.... we would know it wasn't a lie if you showed proof.... but even if it did happen the fact that your Aces got cracked online twice within 20-30 hands and that on some TV table it only happened once all tournament doesn't mean that next game that guy on the TV table played at his next tournament it didn't happen to him twice in 20-30 hands.. Anything is possible.... it's random... crazy things happen randomly all the time.
Wtf is wrong with you? It does not add up to more hands. Your calculation is not exactly very accurate. What should I Call you then a lier or similar also? I think I have answered this portion of your comment... If not I will gladly answer any questions that you feel that I didn't address.

MemphisGrind my previous post was not directed at you, but at Stingray. Should have quoted or used @Stingray.

If it was just bad play and I was outplayed in a hand, it would be much easier to expect. I've played live and played online and the difference in bad beats has been insane! Live, my hands seem to hold up the right percentage of the time. Online has been the complete opposite. And I'm not saying all online sites as before when Full tilt and Poker Stars were alive and well in the USA, my results were the same as live poker. I was consistently cashing 500$ checks! Even 888 was decent. I just feel certain sites have a monopoly in the U.S. market and they are taking advantage of it.

puzzlefish said:

MemphisGrind my previous post was not directed at you, but at Stingray. Should have quoted or used @Stingray.

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aghhhhhhhhhh ok

Challenge...100 hands online vs 100 hands live.i predict number of JQKA on board around twice as many online,I predict maybe 1 1-2 outer live and 2 to 5 1-2 outers online.i also predict Numbers of less favourite hands winning will be at least 4-5 times greater online.Thats just for starters but could prove something if all were confirmed...try it twice to be sure if you want lol lol lol

oneybiggs said:

Challenge...100 hands online vs 100 hands live.i predict number of JQKA on board around twice as many online,I predict maybe 1 1-2 outer live and 2 to 5 1-2 outers online.i also predict Numbers of less favourite hands winning will be at least 4-5 times greater online.Thats just for starters but could prove something if all were confirmed...try it twice to be sure if you want lol lol lol

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what a ridiculous test & what a joke of a prediction
I predict you're terrible at poker & I predict the number of hands you play badly to be about 5x as many as your average bad player.

Poker Orifice said:

what a ridiculous test & what a joke of a prediction
I predict you're terrible at poker & I predict the number of hands you play badly to be about 5x as many as your average bad player.

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lol why haven't I seen this thread sooner... This is some funny stuff. :-D

For sure!!!

Some games no matter online or life are rigged for sure. But I do not think that there is foul play in the big hands, that would be far to obvious, most of the scams are far more subtile.

This thread must be renamed...as paranoia in poker😊

Just posted about that
It happens really too much with me, I got feeling that there is no fair ! Only payback to biggest losers !

/Regards

My experience in casino tournaments is exactly the same as on line in terms of cards being dealt. My test for on line is to watch the pros on pokerstars...particularly in the bigger mtts that are running now. They get the same cards as I do. And, I think if there was any hint of rigging the pros would not only drop out but also start talking about it.

I don't personally think online poker rooms are rigged but some of them allow or don't fight against collusion while other ones host poker bots which are now available on almost all networks. The biggest frustration for a grinder is not to know if he still plays against another human or is actually fighting against a computer.

I think its a fair game but its possible they got it rigged tho. But seen the bad hands also in live poker

If its rigged from the shuffle, I do not believe it's set to favor any player.


Good article. I would have liked it if there was an update on the algorithms currently in use. As for collusion or issues with the site that is always a risk and nothing to be surprised about. And easy to weed out I believe.

But the real question is, is the site truly doing a random shuffle? Which begs the question is anything truly random? Or are we just working off of incomplete data?

I remember when this first came up in the mid 2000's. Unfortunately I do not remember where I read it but the article expressed the idea of attempting a random shuffle. As per the article, the computers of the time were not capable of doing a truly random shuffle so they added a "fairness" algorithm. (Note - its been years since I read this so I apologize if I am misrepresenting here, this is to the best of my memory). It had to do with how many computations the high end processors could do at the time.

The following snippet is in response to someone asking about how to create an algorithm that would make a "truly random" number generator

"..A deterministic device will always produce the same output when given the same starting conditions and inputs - that is what it means to be deterministic. "Truly random number" is more of a philosophical viewpoint, as what does it mean to be random is the crux of the philosophical navel gazing (folks aren't even certain if atomic decay is random or follows some pattern we just can't figure out yet). A cryptographically secure random number generator is going to take some external source of entropy to make the device non-deterministic. .."

souce: https://softwareengineering.stackex...it-impossible-to-produce-truly-random-numbers

Note: the above issue does not bother me as I believe if it is valid, then all of us are dealing with the same thing so there is no edge assuming nobody cracks the algorithm.

I am not sure of regulations or rules for poker sites or if they have to be checked through on a certain time basis to keep them from being manipulated in any way. But... i would like to believe if it were rigged especially in the top sites used with credibility, that someone would have blown the whistle on it after them being open for so long. All in all poker is a game of chance and although some players have much higher level of skill in the game even the best player can get beat by a complete amateur in a single hand. I don't think its rigged i think people just can't control their emotions to make a fully focused and clear headed decision. Can't count how many times I have gotten upset from insanely bad beats from turn or rivers on what i thought were "guaranteed " wins pushing all in .

I've come to the point to let it go when an unbelievable bad beat happens to me. "Well, that's poker." It's taken me over 10 hard and fun years to learn this. LOL

irishdara said:

I've come to the point to let it go when an unbelievable bad beat happens to me. "Well, that's poker." It's taken me over 10 hard and fun years to learn this. LOL

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My advice is don't just let it go. Keep notes and follow the money - follow the nuts.

I know this part of the forum will appreciate this hand.

It's time to find another pass time or find a site that doesn't use a laser to populate its shuffles....

How can anyone be so unlucky? How do I exorcise these demons? Anyone?

@PokerStars in tournament "$11 Mini Battle Royale [Late Edition, Progressive KO], $20K Gtd"

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/29569372_DF1286CEA0 … #BOOMPlayer

The flop came Q J T, the turn was an A, and the river was a B

Something tells me this game was surely rigged.

I can guarantee that the current US friendly sites are most certainly allowing cheating on there sites at all levels of play. It is proven!!! That is what criminals do...LOL If anyone genuinely puts there "trust" into these sites, I pray you find the light. History will look back and see you as the naive. With that said, I do enjoy our private games. They have little incentive to pursue gain within our games. Just saying...As much as I love my family, they have been involved with gaming for years. This is the new frontier. And everyone who deposits, you have been cordially warned. Your call. I don't wish to be attacked or criticized. I am just stating facts! REAL FACTS!

Rigged?

Would people say it is rigged if they were winning alot? i don't think so! it is easier to find flaws on about the system if you lose. It is best to make sure we play right before starting any accusations. We learn to crawl before learning to walk it it the same with poker! Patience is a virtue that winning oblige

scolopin77 said:

Would people say it is rigged if they were winning alot? i don't think so! it is easier to find flaws on about the system if you lose. It is best to make sure we play right before starting any accusations. We learn to crawl before learning to walk it it the same with poker! Patience is a virtue that winning oblige

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I see it rigged for me and I see it rigged against me. It's all about repeating coincidences moving from one hand to the next. You can either keep repeating the mantra of variance or you can go ahead and start doing what many have already done by adapting to non-randomness in the short term that masquerades as variance.