Ways to cheat in online poker (and are legit players safe?)

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puzzlefish

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I was thinking about VPNs and bots tonight. I think by now most are aware that poker bot rings do exist and operate on online poker sites. However, to what extent can they be used to cheat? For example, is it possible that a network of bots, each on different VPNs, can be operated as a team from the same warehouse to collude for the purposes of chip dumping, soft play, and getting a significant edge on online poker tables through hole card sharing? What do you think?
 
puzzlefish said:
I was thinking about VPNs and bots tonight. I think by now most are aware that poker bot rings do exist and operate on online poker sites. However, to what extent can they be used to cheat? For example, is it possible that a network of bots, each on different VPNs, can be operated as a team from the same warehouse to collude for the purposes of chip dumping, soft play, and getting a significant edge on online poker tables through hole card sharing? What do you think?
Click to expand...


I think unfortunately it's very possible..
 
puzzlefish said:
I was thinking about VPNs and bots tonight. I think by now most are aware that poker bot rings do exist and operate on online poker sites. However, to what extent can they be used to cheat? For example, is it possible that a network of bots, each on different VPNs, can be operated as a team from the same warehouse to collude for the purposes of chip dumping, soft play, and getting a significant edge on online poker tables through hole card sharing? What do you think?
Click to expand...
Q. Have you tried playing from a VPN???
If yes, did it work??
If no, why even ask about VPNs???

As far, as I know you can get banned for using a VPN on most sites, As for bots, they are easy to beat.
VPN = proxy sever!!


Also why would a poker site be using bots???
I've have not ran into a bot at all, check the player he/she is playing more than one table..
 
kidkvno1 said:
Q. Have you tried playing from a VPN???
If yes, did it work??
If no, why even ask about VPNs???

As far, as I know you can get banned for using a VPN on most sites, As for bots, they are easy to beat.
VPN = proxy sever!!


Also why would a poker site be using bots???
I've have not ran into a bot at all, check the player he/she is playing more than one table..
Click to expand...

As far, as I know you can get banned for using a VPN on most sites
I have used a VPN and it works. edit I was helped by a pretty intelligent computer friend of mine. didn't mean to make it seem as if it was acceptable.

As for bots, they are easy to beat.
There are different types of bots, beating A single bot yes is beatable but as OP described they are talking about a ring of bots that chip dump collude and gaining an edge on the table.

Also why would a poker site be using bots???
The site does not create the bots, people purchase bots and make bots. They program their bots. The site tries to get rid of bots, but people suck. The site has nothing to do with it.
 
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Yes I am not suggesting anything here about poker sites using house bots for their own benefit. Sorry for any confusion there.. This is strictly about bot ring operators being able to target and profit from playing on online poker sites. VPNs do work. I know poker sites do not like them or forbid them, but there are ways to get around this.
 
Here's a thought experiment for organized crime, just to elaborate further on what I think may be happening. Keep in mind online poker has been around for a while and so has bot development along with it. This is a rough outline of the steps in the plan:

1. Obtain (by consent or, more likely, borrow without consent) identities of people in various countries that can be used to authenticate bot accounts. Create the necessary virtual financial vehicles needed for deposit and withdrawal purposes.

2. Design bots. Modify as needed to avoid detection. Start with one instance until it is undetectable. Then create communication algorithms and poker collusion strategies for multiple running instances of this bot, so they can cooperate as a team.

3. Use identities from step 1 to create accounts for multiple bots on a target online poker site. Create log-in and running schedules for bots so they are not all operating at once, along with counter-surveillance schedules to further help avoid detection.

4. Run attacks on a variety of poker tables. The more of your bots that can be at the same table, the greater the edge for that team of bots.

5. Withdraw funds in small amounts to existing financial vehicles for the bots, then transfer to a centralized account once clear of the online poker site.

This kind of approach is what I am talking about and would explain a lot of weird calls and weird variance that comes along with them online.
 
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Why wouldn't an online poker site use bots in the same way that a casino uses prop players? And I have suspected bot rings operating on BOL because if you look at the .50/1.00 tables, the same players are at almost every table except for like 1 or 2 players for the most part. I know people multi table and I get that but it just seems like it is 7 against 1 or 2 suckers.
 
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rmcmullen2003 said:
Why wouldn't an online poker site use bots in the same way that a casino uses prop players? And I have suspected bot rings operating on BOL because if you look at the .50/1.00 tables, the same players are at almost every table except for like 1 or 2 players for the most part. I know people multi table and I get that but it just seems like it is 7 against 1 or 2 suckers.
Click to expand...


I agree with sites using bots. what do they have to lose? whos a governing body? No one There is NO ONE alive who makes shit tons of money that are the up and up so why would a poker site be?
 
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abwil2 said:
I agree with sites using bots. what do they have to lose? whos a governing body? No one There is NO ONE alive who makes shit tons of money that are the up and up so why would a poker site be?
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They could lose their whole business if exposed. And for sure their licenze in those parts of the world, where online poker is regulated. Like for instance the EU, which is a way more important market for online poker sites now than North America.
 
I don't think legit players are safe in online poker. You don't know who is at the table and whether the card dealing is fair (dealing is favored towards particular players, or against them based on their multiple deposits and size of deposits) even though the site claims otherwise. There is no oversight on online cardrooms.
 
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rmcmullen2003 said:
And I have suspected bot rings operating on BOL because if you look at the .50/1.00 tables, the same players are at almost every table except for like 1 or 2 players for the most part. I know people multi table and I get that but it just seems like it is 7 against 1 or 2 suckers.
Click to expand...

Sounds pretty normal to me. 1-2 suckers (fish) per table is pretty much the norm even at limits much lower than 100NL. And with likely a limited number of tables running, its no wonder, that the multi tabling regulars are on most of the tables. Where else would they be, if they want to play even like 4-6 tables? On 888 poker for instance, there is right now 4 100NL tables running. So if I was playing that limit, I would surely try to get on all of them.
 
I thought about this and asked a shady buddy of mine that runs a few bots. This is what he said you can run one program per computer, per site, per ip address. Even said the latest has adjustments on timing so its not the same exact timing each time.Its getting harder to identify. He said the programs(bot) don't work together but you don't need them to. But there are actually groups and individuals working together sharing card info destroying bots and other people. So you have to pay attention because the ones seeing 3,4 whole cards truly have the advantage over bots and players.

He believes that groups working for the sites do in fact have similar groups. Put two or three at the same table. He said always avoid a table that's only one person is siting at the table with a huge stack. Sign of a bot someone isn't paying attention to that's out lasted everyone else. . He should restart table with just max buy in.

He must do well because he doesn't have a regular job and live pretty good.

Some how he has a list of bots other than his own. He wouldn't give me this list but was nice enough to update his list. So yes they are out there.
 
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I love how people are still defending sites saying why would they etc...Did you not just see the live cheating scandal and if not...where the hell have you been?? Under a rock?? Online poker has been a cheater's haven for years. It's not what it was pre black friday. If there's a way someone can make money, there is a way someone can cheat them out of their money!
 
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kidkvno1 said:
Q. Have you tried playing from a VPN???
If yes, did it work??
If no, why even ask about VPNs???

As far, as I know you can get banned for using a VPN on most sites, As for bots, they are easy to beat.
VPN = proxy sever!!


Also why would a poker site be using bots???
I've have not ran into a bot at all, check the player he/she is playing more than one table..
Click to expand...

MemphisGrind said:
As far, as I know you can get banned for using a VPN on most sites
I have used a VPN and it works. edit I was helped by a pretty intelligent computer friend of mine. didn't mean to make it seem as if it was acceptable.

As for bots, they are easy to beat.
There are different types of bots, beating A single bot yes is beatable but as OP described they are talking about a ring of bots that chip dump collude and gaining an edge on the table.

Also why would a poker site be using bots???
The site does not create the bots, people purchase bots and make bots. They program their bots. The site tries to get rid of bots, but people suck. The site has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...



I suspect it depends on the site you play on. I use a VPN as well and have not had issues so far. Except for Bovada whom gave me a friendly warning because I connected the vpn to a server in a different country than the one I signed up with (that was a few years ago). I rarely use Bovada today. So assume they still enforce that.
 
I've played on-line for many years. The easiest and most common cheating is via collusion between two players at the same table... via phone.
 
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Dude, I think everything in life has a 20% chance of going wrong (like aces) and I believe high power sites like PS wouldn't be possible. Encryption security is strong because they tend to lose a lot if leaked confirmed fraud information is leaked. Everything goes from where you put your money. Research the app's trajectory and if you still don't have confidence try live poker. But even in live there is a way to cheat, meaning there is nothing 100% sure
 
Bot rings like this are definitely a possibility for organized crime usage, which would be a problem for poker sites but not too big a threat to regular (not-total-fish) players. Any bot, even as part of a ring, is going to play according to a strict algorithm (by definition) and have exploitable weaknesses. They might make money against fish by sheer volume, but the real threat is that they could move relatively large sums of money around without a reliable trace.
 
On freerolls I saw playing multiple players from the same country with the same name, there is a possibility, that all these players is actually only one. Would they be seated by the system on the same table, knowing, that they share the same address? What about sit and goes with only one table? would the system allow players with the same address to sit at one table? If all this possible, then anyone can cheat even without trying much.Although I believe ban from forum would be on it's way 😀
 
Unfortunately yes, I think it's possible to cheat at online poker. The sad thing is that with modern technology and especially the internet these things are possible, you just have to be cautious when online.
 
I think that all the work of bots is dependent on the operator's actions, which is on the site during the tournament.
 
man, i really believe. and i keep repeating my self about the reason dont deposit money on online poker. i just dont trust. and im greatful and thankful for cardchat for providing with freerolls. because that is the way i actually play real money is by using the money i win from the freerolls.
 
This is paranoia dude, those kind of thoughts can't help you to win.
 
I am completely sure that if it is possible if you are at the tables and analyze the situations in which you lose a hand that seems impossible to lose it and that is something that is repeated very often then if they do this kind of traps of course
 
I invite you to read the article of party poker and its work about this you will realize how much paranoia there are as you say traps and traps
 
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