This is a tough question but a valid concern. If you played against a doped athlete you would feel cheated if they won but strictly they are not doping. Too class them as a separate group is borderline discrimination. Inn today's world I think there are ways to handicap men women sports especially women's to make the playing field fair
jfitzg414 said:
Excellent idea , if they had to start several hundred feet/metres etc. behind the girls their own age ... that would be a way to make the race more fair.
There are handicaps in other sports where women and men compete together.
Yes that was my thought also, handicapping on a sport by sport basis should even the field and all participants would know the what they were facing. I think we should be able to figure this out without sectioning people. I would hate to see this decided by the courts or end violent but I do believe they should be able to compete in their chosen transgender sporticnbe56 said:
I don't think they should compete against the girls because of the advantage that
they have in physical competitions but would be great on the quiz bowl team or
art competition or music or anything that is not physical.
I understand the mothers of the girls being upset about this because they may be
competing to try for college scholarships and feel that they were cheated.
they have in physical competitions but would be great on the quiz bowl team or
art competition or music or anything that is not physical.
I understand the mothers of the girls being upset about this because they may be
competing to try for college scholarships and feel that they were cheated.
Becky do you feel that you could not level the playing field with a handicap structure it is done in many sports and works fine. This would allow fair competition for scholarships if all participants knew the handicap structure or appealed and amended the handicap so all had a voice.
Becky Eubanks said:
That's pretty much how the parents feel , as their girls Are being beat by the transgenders - so if the petition works , then the transgenders won't be allowed ... but maybe in the track and field events they could use a handicap .
If transgenders have an unfair advantage then it's unfair. Which is possible as obviously men do have different physiology to women.Other wise from a gender point of view i'm completely ok with it.
I'm not ok with unfair competition though whether that be from a gender advantage or drug advantage such as steroid use.Lot's of research needs to be done on the subject obviously,but has sport ever been a level playing field ?.Maybe it will just result in athletes reaching a higher standard,who knows.
It does seem to be one way though doesn't it ? because it's transgender men.Because if a transgender women beats male athletes i couldn't see there being any excuses to be fair.
I'm not ok with unfair competition though whether that be from a gender advantage or drug advantage such as steroid use.Lot's of research needs to be done on the subject obviously,but has sport ever been a level playing field ?.Maybe it will just result in athletes reaching a higher standard,who knows.
It does seem to be one way though doesn't it ? because it's transgender men.Because if a transgender women beats male athletes i couldn't see there being any excuses to be fair.
Well, that is what these parents are ticked off about is the transgenders competing in the track and field against girls - these are young teens , so it is unfair ... as far as I can tell. I feel for these girls and the parents are the ones that now have the battle to make it fair.MettaGame said:
so,either have a separate division or give them handicaps. Either way - if they keep up as is - it is unfair.
I agree to - they would need handicaps - kinda like in golf .step055 said:
Shahzade said:
Yep - it is what the parents are fighting for now.
So far we have a lot of votes for not playing in the girls division and I am tending that way to.
jfitzg414 said:
Hopefully no violence - just come to a mutual fair set of rules - if not handicaps , then a separate division .
They have a separate decision of all sports for the handicapped ( disabled ) |Even have their own Paralympic Games !
They did not think of handicapping so now we are where we are. You will not be able to handicap all sports but the boards will have to figure that on a 1 by 1 basis. I have granddaughters in college women softball and do not know how you handicap that. Track and Field and golf is obvious but some sports I do not see how to handicap.
There is certainly a gender advantage for strength you would think. Even at a kids competition level they still play to win and i feel they should be able to play but just give them a separate locker room and they play on the sex they were born toos team.
So, every sport is going to have to be judged/decided on as it happens /needed then if they are going to keep allowing transgenders to play in girls/women's sports.jfitzg414 said:
cbrig6 said:
LOL separate locker room ? - this is happening in the USA - you knw where they are allowing transgenders to use the ladies rooms - even if they aren't totally transitioned !
So, play - compete yes - but not against girls !
There are two ethical dilemmas with the topic of Trans competing in sports in the opposite gender class than they were initially born as.
The first dilemma is at a level of science in relation to hormones, chemical "on-goings" in the body which can be further researched as to why the male has a specific hormonal advantage in consideration with aggression and physicality - dating back to primitive eras of survival and genetics. One of these hormones is called Testosterone. It is a natural compound and not supplemented and considered cheating if indeed it is supplemented. Now one can argue that the use of Estrogen as a hormonal balancing implementation can disregard this initial dilemma. Yes, but then this is still a form of supplementation (similar to growth hormone & steroids) and cannot always be monitored so accurately.
The second dilemma which is the contradiction to the first dilemma, is a moral dilemma. This rarely has to be discussed further. On the one hand the argument is they are kids let them play. But like in poker where one loses/wins the opposite occurs to the opponent. You win I lose. or I win and you lose. And as is the case with any game where a winner is established we want to ensure that on a moral level everything is ship shape and fair. It becomes quite the predicament because schools and meets want to be as INCLUSIVE as possible without "screwing over the rest of the competition" for the sake of having an "open minded image".
So its a vicious debate that goes in circles as with any other ethical topic. This only stimulates loop discussions that doesn't actually find a solution in the end and no matter what someone will be pleased and someone will be upset.
The only other option is for there to be a new category in events (especially when this becomes an issue at professional levels where monetary gain is now in question) and that category can be named "gender fluid" race class group. Given its trajectory this will indeed bring numbers in future iterations.
Similar to the Special Olympics where each competitior shares a form of disability (by no means am I comparing trans to disabled people for the record) but the idea is the same. The trans are "gender fluid" and sign a waiver accepting this premise prior to any form of competition.
My opinion is to find a solution where gender fluid athletes can have their own class/category of competition as this can generate the most utility for the collective. Again, you will always have those fanatics who are crazy against the thought of Trans/Gender Fluid people - and they will just harass them on youtube and other forms of public exposure. For those, I think karma will be visiting them in some form sooner than later. Let people be what they want and lets work together to find a solution to provide utility to the collective. We are all humans in the end. And life needs to be respected.
anyway thats my two cents would love to hear your thoughts about this
cheers!
icnbe56 said:
Awesome! I gave this topic some further thought and came up with another solution in the shower where I often do my best thinking. 😛arty:
There can easily be an option (in schools as a trial) for a CO-ED category of racing. The same parameters apply in a sense that every athlete should be CLEARLY told what is involved in this category. Females, males and gender fluids would have equal opportunity in this grouping. A waiver could be signed or something to acknowledge that in this category all genders, and gender fluid persons are accepted and permitted to compete here.
This actually does two things, it solves the issue of unfair "genetic" advantage AND it also does not "segregate" the gender fluid/trans people any further than they already are... This way they can compete in the same group as their peers. :reddy:
icnbe56 said:
As for assigning locker rooms - this is a riddle I have no solution for yet, perhaps again assigning a "gender fluid" locker room??
It is very difficult to accommodate and I think it would need some serious discussion and thought on "the locker room" type issues as this can certainly put anyone in an unnecessarily awkward position.
To prevent any sexual harassment incidents as well because it only takes ONE of these incidents to cause an outrageous debacle between parents and their kids and the schools itself.
You could be the most open minded gal or guy , but I mean for lack of better description here, seeing someone else's gizmo is awkward. 😕