First one just cost you the limp. Second one, 10 rivers beat you after the turn, and checking it gave him that card for free. I'd bet the turn, against his set you're about 77% there. When the board paired you were calling about 27k to win about 240k, so you only need to be good about 1 time in 10.
2nd hand ...
If I'm reading this right, the pre-flop here is very fishy, sorry. You limp-called 4x UtG?? Ooof. Never say never but UtG is almost NEVER a limp. Not 25bb deep at a 7 seat table. Basically from this seat we want to open our strongest hands and fold everything else. Q9s is not strong enough to play here and we certainly shouldn't be calling 4x with it after showing Villain a capped range (capped range means that we are unlikely to have strong cards due to our limp - strong cards would open bet, not limp). Especially as a player of limited experience in an exploitative environment, just fold that meh hand. Want to play Q9s? Open it from the BT or maybe defend with good pot odds from the blinds (although that's tougher to do for an inexperienced player so okay to fold too).
Then you donk the river for 3/4 of your stack. If you're betting large there, just shove. You're clicking the pot button with no awareness of your own stack. That extra 21k behind does nothing for you. He's not going to call. He's either folding or putting you all-in and if he puts you all-in you're not folding so just stick it in yourself ... or size down, although I think at this point jam is good. The flush busts and there is a decent amount of non-boat Jx and Tx that could pay you off while a jam kills any of his bluffs.
Judging by both hands it looks like you might be a chronic limper. If so, stop it. We want to be tight and aggressive, not wide, limpy limp-cally and passive.
Your pre-flop on the first hand, we overlimped 22 from CO (overlimp means there was a limp before us) which is actually an okay play, but then when it comes back around we fold to a smaller bet than we called in the 2nd hand even when a caller between gave us juicy pot odds and we had a chance to close the action. We had a relatively cheap price and could have won a monster but we let it go.
Comparing this to the 2nd hand, we open limped (no limper before us) from the worst seat at the table with a hand very much out of range, then called a large open with poor pot odds heads-up. We had an expensive call out of position while holding a hand that is not as good as it looks after showing an aggressive Villain a capped range.
Going by many of your posts (including this one) you seem to be fixated on avoiding coolers. There's not much that we can do to avoid coolers and suckouts. He had a set of J and we turned a straight. If not for the river, we gave him a cooler too. It works both ways. Don't worry about the coolers. Work on your pre-flop. There is tons of info out there about pre-flop, position ranges and sizings. Once you get that down (and it will take a bit of time) the post-flop spots will make far more sense. I was the same way. "How do I get out of this turn spot?" I would ask. And people would tell me, "Don't get into it in the first place by playing the pre-flop so badly. Go learn pre-flop." Trust me. I've been there and have the scars. : )
If I'm reading this right, the pre-flop here is very fishy, sorry. You limp-called 4x UtG?? Ooof. Never say never but UtG is almost NEVER a limp. Not 25bb deep at a 7 seat table. Basically from this seat we want to open our strongest hands and fold everything else. Q9s is not strong enough to play here and we certainly shouldn't be calling 4x with it after showing Villain a capped range (capped range means that we are unlikely to have strong cards due to our limp - strong cards would open bet, not limp). Especially as a player of limited experience in an exploitative environment, just fold that meh hand. Want to play Q9s? Open it from the BT or maybe defend with good pot odds from the blinds (although that's tougher to do for an inexperienced player so okay to fold too).
Then you donk the river for 3/4 of your stack. If you're betting large there, just shove. You're clicking the pot button with no awareness of your own stack. That extra 21k behind does nothing for you. He's not going to call. He's either folding or putting you all-in and if he puts you all-in you're not folding so just stick it in yourself ... or size down, although I think at this point jam is good. The flush busts and there is a decent amount of non-boat Jx and Tx that could pay you off while a jam kills any of his bluffs.
Judging by both hands it looks like you might be a chronic limper. If so, stop it. We want to be tight and aggressive, not wide, limpy limp-cally and passive.
Your pre-flop on the first hand, we overlimped 22 from CO (overlimp means there was a limp before us) which is actually an okay play, but then when it comes back around we fold to a smaller bet than we called in the 2nd hand even when a caller between gave us juicy pot odds and we had a chance to close the action. We had a relatively cheap price and could have won a monster but we let it go.
Comparing this to the 2nd hand, we open limped (no limper before us) from the worst seat at the table with a hand very much out of range, then called a large open with poor pot odds heads-up. We had an expensive call out of position while holding a hand that is not as good as it looks after showing an aggressive Villain a capped range.
Going by many of your posts (including this one) you seem to be fixated on avoiding coolers. There's not much that we can do to avoid coolers and suckouts. He had a set of J and we turned a straight. If not for the river, we gave him a cooler too. It works both ways. Don't worry about the coolers. Work on your pre-flop. There is tons of info out there about pre-flop, position ranges and sizings. Once you get that down (and it will take a bit of time) the post-flop spots will make far more sense. I was the same way. "How do I get out of this turn spot?" I would ask. And people would tell me, "Don't get into it in the first place by playing the pre-flop so badly. Go learn pre-flop." Trust me. I've been there and have the scars. : )
amirpc said:
Yea, maybe but he is out of position. If he donks turn after limp-calling, check-calling isn't he basically telling Villain that he has a 9 for the straight? I mean Villain opened and c-bet. I would expect a barrel so ideally I'm thinking to check-raise, check-jam that turn (Q9 is actually nut on the turn, we actually prefer to not flush the river), but Villain checked back. You're more experienced than I so I'm curious as to your thoughts on that.
First one nothing odd, you have 25BB stack, if you act first you can open 2-2.2BB. Now someone limp UTG so limp is OK. After a 3-bet and flat and 4-bet shove this is a no brainer fold. The only reason you post is probably result driven, is you did not hit FH flop you would not have paid attention too it. And that 77 wins also does not matter.hoachec said:
Only important thing in poker is play correct, use exploits and all your knowledge to turn long term MTT play profitable.
Second one, you play a 129K stack around 32BB, UTG Q9s IMO is too wide. Limp is also too exploitable/fish. You can open in MP. If you really feel like this is a soft Freeroll table then open with a 2-2.2BB bet. After you open and get a 3-bet from JJ you could give up or peel if the price is good. He plays 38 VPIP but I do not know based on how many hands.
In most cases Q9s UTG here is fold, if you open and get a big 3-bet fold as well. It is very strong if you get 3-bet with 8 max table UTG open. Unless you open very wide and shown a lot of fish/bad hand action open and become a target for light calls.
If you are already in it gets complicated, exactly why you want to pick your spots correctly. Flop check/call is understandable, you get a good price 14k to win 71k need about 20% equity which can be possible with 4 gutter cards, one over and backdoor flush draw. But not all cards are clean outs.
Turn check/check, logical for him as every 9 makes straight. River is the interesting one, his range does contain JJ, for 77 88 TJ I assume flat would lean more to his logical line.
But then I would prefer to check/call river, as you have to think in ranges and logic. What does he call you on the river? What does he shove? If he holds QQ KK AA he is not going to bet/raise as he has showdown value and every 9 completes the straight. What do you want to get value from? You are only targeting 9s which often would bet the turn after continuation range bet flop and are not involved a lot in pre-flop 3-bet vs UTG.
amirpc said:
Interesting. You say that Villain has 10 outs but only if he has a set or 2 pair. We're not putting him on a back door flush draw when he raised the flop unless he has something else and just happens to be suited clubs as well. He has a lot more than JJ (or TT) here. His 3-bet pre could very well be AA, KK, AJs, or even AK is a gut on the turn, or AQs a gut on turn (double gut actually now that I look closer), or even QQ (another gut, although Hero blocks it). All of those hands have far less than 10 outs and some are even drawing dead (unless they happen to be clubs).
