Shove or Fold Poker: Three Key Spots with Katie Dozier and Collin Moshman (Video)
bruno13xs
Legend
Bronze Level
an excellent video, but 15bb and 20bb is very little stack you need to flatten a little but your opponents, but as it is a shortstacked position and you feared 3 push and all in option, you will depend a lot on your hand to make your decision, if it's a good hand like AA all in if it's average like AKs AQs you push or fold
Ventoman777
Rock Star
Silver Level
For me, a good short stack strategy includes all-in for every suitable situation. Just because you have a short stack does not mean that you have less chance of winning a hand, it just means that you have to adapt your game a little to each situation.
Bozovicdj
Legend
Silver Level
The video seems like a very good intro into push/fold strategy for MTTs.
Whoever plays poker, had to have been in a spot where they were shortstacked and had very few options pre flop. I'd say that a lot more substance can be added to this topic.
For example, shoving ranges vs particular opponents, shoving ranges against particular stack sizes etc.
Regardless, following good old push fold charts is profitable in the long run for sure
Another thing I would like to see in the future videos is really putting the chart results into words many can understand.
We have seen how chart changes depending on whether everyone folded to us in the BU, if CO made a min bet or if CO shoved his super short stack. Next level is explaining why the chart changed the way it did.
Reason this is needed is for people who don't use charts and are not paying to use HUD or calculators... If they can understand the general idea behind the results, they would be able to "calculate" real time what hand should they shove/fold with in different spots.
Whoever plays poker, had to have been in a spot where they were shortstacked and had very few options pre flop. I'd say that a lot more substance can be added to this topic.
For example, shoving ranges vs particular opponents, shoving ranges against particular stack sizes etc.
Regardless, following good old push fold charts is profitable in the long run for sure
Another thing I would like to see in the future videos is really putting the chart results into words many can understand.
We have seen how chart changes depending on whether everyone folded to us in the BU, if CO made a min bet or if CO shoved his super short stack. Next level is explaining why the chart changed the way it did.
Reason this is needed is for people who don't use charts and are not paying to use HUD or calculators... If they can understand the general idea behind the results, they would be able to "calculate" real time what hand should they shove/fold with in different spots.
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Glad the advice is helpful! Besides buying ICMizer, you can learn from it by doing the free trial and then cancelling, or getting a one-month subscription. Alternatively there are free tools which we talk about more in our upcoming course, including this one for shove/fold decisions.
Miguel Chacon
Visionary
Silver Level
Thank Katie and Collin for this great Video ...
I used to apply this situation when I was around 10BB or lesss Now I realize over these few months and with this video confirming it that it have to sooner around 20BB is already lot of situations wher is All in or Fold Poker thanks Learning lot from you guys loving the videos!!
I used to apply this situation when I was around 10BB or lesss Now I realize over these few months and with this video confirming it that it have to sooner around 20BB is already lot of situations wher is All in or Fold Poker thanks Learning lot from you guys loving the videos!!
Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Awesome improvement to your game, Miguel! I’m so glad to hear that you’ve made that adjustment, well done! [emoji106]
Thanks so much for the nice comments everyone!
Chalada12
Visionary
Silver Level
Great video, shoving is very important in poker , but not always , thank to this video , i learn a lot on how to do so and i m really happy as i m always improving my game thnx to CC and it videos and the great people in here .
Amanda A
Legend
Bronze Level
Thanks so much both of you. Great video! I've heard similar stuff but not stated in that way before and it makes a lot of sense. I think too many people only start shove or fold poker when they have 10BB regardless of antes and raises. Collin, I'm reading your book on sit and go strategy and learning a lot. I'm also working with ICMizer and it really opened my eyes to how wide it is correct to push or call with in certain situations. In the example where if someone raises before you and you are looking at a shove of 20 BB how much do you tighten up your shoving range given that you are facing a raise? I know it is opponent dependent, but generally? Also if you give your opponent an opening range of say 30 per cent, what kind of range should you have to shove over the top with? Top 20 per cent of hands? Is it useful to think in these terms - I want my range to be 10 % tighter than his opening range, or is it more useful to think about opponent's calling range after your shove? Thanks!
Ivansito26
Legend
Silver Level
It is a key point when pushing everything in one hand or fold because in a crucial tournament you should know how to make the best decision, and good video and explain and teach us when making a shove or fold, it is always exciting to see how they help us with these videos should take the idea of doing live classes
sergik1992
Legend
Silver Level
Thanks for the video! The main lesson for me in this video : I have to pay more attantion to work with poker software)
One more thing: to my shame I only recently opened to myself that I have to play not so agressive in games without ante (all CC freerolls pokerstars) ))
One more thing: to my shame I only recently opened to myself that I have to play not so agressive in games without ante (all CC freerolls pokerstars) ))
Bev
Legend
Bronze Level
I thought I had done this one , thank goodness I just caught it today !
Anyway , for whatever reason I find myself down to the last chips - whether I had a big oopsie or I had to sit out of the tournament , now I have to to see what luck I have in trying to stay in the game. So, with that said I just resign myself to the fact that I have to shove and let the chips fall where they may. Not much else you can do at this point.
In the cases of being disconnected , or having to sit out , and you just get back in online - then you haven't got a a "history " of what has been coming out - so that is a total stab in the dark going all in.
But if you had a big oopsie , then I try to shove when I get some decent cards if my stack will hold out that long.
Anyway , for whatever reason I find myself down to the last chips - whether I had a big oopsie or I had to sit out of the tournament , now I have to to see what luck I have in trying to stay in the game. So, with that said I just resign myself to the fact that I have to shove and let the chips fall where they may. Not much else you can do at this point.
In the cases of being disconnected , or having to sit out , and you just get back in online - then you haven't got a a "history " of what has been coming out - so that is a total stab in the dark going all in.
But if you had a big oopsie , then I try to shove when I get some decent cards if my stack will hold out that long.
XYZ2123
Visionary
Bronze Level
Thank you for this video. Its definitely important to understand shove/fold strategy to run deep in an tournament when shortstacked. The advice hear is on point, but it is also important to adjust based on the tendencies (if you know them) of your opponents.
m0t22
Visionary
Silver Level
Loved the comments, congratulations.
I particularly have problems raising / folding, I need to adjust my shoort stack strategy.
I've been playing less screens and watching more spots to try to capture player information and thus use scenarios to my advantage.
I believe this 18bb to 25bb range has a good fold equity versus the wide open players, and when we call, in most cases we can be in front of the calling range or flip. I think it is a very lucrative move.
However we cannot do this in scenarios where the aggressor's range is minimal and we have little information. I believe I risk some scenarios with pockets pairs just by calling for set value, but I don't know if it's a good move. I like to pay mostly being out of position (blinds.)
I particularly have problems raising / folding, I need to adjust my shoort stack strategy.
I've been playing less screens and watching more spots to try to capture player information and thus use scenarios to my advantage.
I believe this 18bb to 25bb range has a good fold equity versus the wide open players, and when we call, in most cases we can be in front of the calling range or flip. I think it is a very lucrative move.
However we cannot do this in scenarios where the aggressor's range is minimal and we have little information. I believe I risk some scenarios with pockets pairs just by calling for set value, but I don't know if it's a good move. I like to pay mostly being out of position (blinds.)
Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Thanks so much for the extremely nice comments, everyone! Really means a lot and I’m so glad you’re enjoying these videos [emoji4]
Thanks so much for your kind feedback and awesome questions, Amanda! Any chance you wouldn’t mind posting these questions in the AMA thread that Collin and I have stickied in the Tournament poker forum? These are such great questions that I feel having them asked/answered there would allow more people to be helped by them as I imagine there are probably a lot of people out there wondering the same exact things! Thank you if you’re up for doing that!
Thanks so much for your kind feedback and awesome questions, Amanda! Any chance you wouldn’t mind posting these questions in the AMA thread that Collin and I have stickied in the Tournament poker forum? These are such great questions that I feel having them asked/answered there would allow more people to be helped by them as I imagine there are probably a lot of people out there wondering the same exact things! Thank you if you’re up for doing that!