I've played online for around 15 years. Sit n Go's used to fill up very quickly. You could find games starting all the way up to $530+ without much of a wait. Now the highest I can find are $50 SNGs on Party Poker (which is my preferred site). Does anyone have any thoughts as to why they aren't as popular. I'm aware that Black Friday and the introduction of Spin'n'Go's will have had an effect but would love to see regular SNGs have more liquidity.
I think, there are three reasons. The first is, that volume in online poker has declined, which of course makes it more difficult for SnGs to fill. This is self reinforcing, because if people need to wait to long to get into a game, they give up and start playing something else. Like MTTs where you can always late reg into, whatever is running, and be dealt the first hand within seconds.
The second reason is, that SnGs have become difficult to beat at least at limits, where the money matter just a bit. This is because, SnGs are simple games, and with the current availability of training sites and programs like ICMizer it has become more difficult to find big edges.
Some poker sites like 888 Poker and PokerStars have magnified the problem by charging a very high rake for the low buyins, which make them difficult to beat as well. And when a certain game form is difficult to beat, then regulars will either stop or move to other game types. Like again MTTs, where you get to play much longer for the same or sometimes even less rake.
When regs stop playing SnGs, because they dont make money, then it become even more difficult for them to fill, and then recreational players lose interest as well. The bad cycle continue. The final reason is the one, you mentioned already, Spin n Gos. These have attracted a lot of the recreational money, which used to go into SnGs. Which again has contributed to making it more difficult for regulars to profit, which again.... I think, you get the point 🙂
The second reason is, that SnGs have become difficult to beat at least at limits, where the money matter just a bit. This is because, SnGs are simple games, and with the current availability of training sites and programs like ICMizer it has become more difficult to find big edges.
Some poker sites like 888 Poker and PokerStars have magnified the problem by charging a very high rake for the low buyins, which make them difficult to beat as well. And when a certain game form is difficult to beat, then regulars will either stop or move to other game types. Like again MTTs, where you get to play much longer for the same or sometimes even less rake.
When regs stop playing SnGs, because they dont make money, then it become even more difficult for them to fill, and then recreational players lose interest as well. The bad cycle continue. The final reason is the one, you mentioned already, Spin n Gos. These have attracted a lot of the recreational money, which used to go into SnGs. Which again has contributed to making it more difficult for regulars to profit, which again.... I think, you get the point 🙂
Johnny78B said:
Above a certain limits its only turbos and/or heads-up. Also just because a certain SnG is in the lobby does not mean, it tends to fill. Even something as low as the 4,5$ 36-180 man only fill during certain hours of day. So if you want to play outside this time, you can register for it, but you might have to wait 7 hours, before you are actually going to play.
I think most players realized that if they were gonna choose a game that would, more often than not, come down to just push/folding, they could just play a shorter, possibly much more profitable game like Spin and Gos. In my personal experience, the last time I focused on Sit and Gos, which was several years ago, I had to play anywhere from 6-12 games at once for it to be worth my time.
They used to run all the time about 8 years or so ago on Pokerstars. I remember playing in 180 mans a lot and they would constantly fill and it wouldn't take very long at all. If you are American like me you will be lucky to play in an sng with more than two tables(18 players) because the player pool just isn't that big and people like to play tournaments, cash, or spin n goes instead.
These tournaments have lost their former popularity for two reasons! First of all they have long been calculated on the servers! And secondly, because of modern technology, they have a lot of scammers ( team play)! All this scares the players away.
I think it's simple now, recreational players care more about playing spin and go. I mean by this they are looking for faster games and where they have the option of better prizes, I think it's crazy but that's what the trend says in recent years years
fundiver199 said:
These are excellent points from Fundiver 🙂
To continue on with his point, I think a big part of the burst of SNG popularity back in the day was the ability to play a poker tournament without it taking hours and hours—which was revolutionary back in the day.
When 9-man superturbos first came out, they were very popular and Spin n gos are basically a more extreme version of those!
Also, I think that there are trends within poker and SNGs are just not as cool as they once were these days—but I have faith that they’ll come back in a bigger way before too long!
Back when online poker started,i played sit and goes every day.Like you said they filled up fast.I think part of it is people now for some reason want to rebuy,or re enter.The games are so wide open,people play reckless in a multi tourneys because they know they can rebuy.In a sit and go when your out thats it.
Katie Dozier said:
Exactly. And if you count the enormous popularity of Spin n Gos, which reportedly account for up to 20% of poker revenue on some sites, then maybe SnG have actually not even become less popular. A lot of people are just playing this new variety instead.
What Spin n Gos have done, other than add a lottery element to the price pool, is to get rid of the traditional poker lobby and player list. When you buy into a Spin n Go, you can not see, how have already registered or how many.
And from the perspective of the poker sites this gets rid of the problem with bum hunting, which has largely destroyed the heads-up scene. When you look through the lobby on PokerStars, its very obvious, that the high or even mid stakes heads up SnGs is all about a shark sitting and waiting for pray.
And since obviously the sharks know each other, they will never register, when another shark is already sitting. Its a bum hunters heaven, and reportedly heads up SnGs are the game form, where new players last the shortest amount of time, before they have lost their money.
Poker sites could start to seat people in traditional SnGs in the same randomised way, but from the perspective of the sites and the recreational players, they both get, what they want, from the Spin n Gos, so there is no need to change the traditional SnGs. Poker sites leave them hanging around, as long as they generate at least some volume, but some new sites like GG Poker dont even bother to have them.
And again from the perspective of recreational players traditional 9 mans are perhaps just a bit to in between and without enough excitement. With MTTs and especially large MTTs there is homerun potential, if you make a deep run, and Spin n Gos give the same because of the lottery style price pools. With a 9 man you can win your money back 4 times at most, which just does not generate the same amount of excitement 🙂
Katie Dozier said:
There is definitely also an element of that. The original "Poker After Dark" TV show was a 9 man winner takes all SnG. For me personally these were the first televised poker games, I watched 🙂
It's just that there are more interesting disciplines with more profit and weaker fields. Of course the new formats are more dispersed but You have the choice to play few tournaments with less risk or a little more risky but in larger numbers and play a longer distance.🙂
I think less recreational players are around that invest a lot of money, because
people realized that poker is not a game in which you make a lot of money fast.
And the gamblers have turned to even faster formats like spin&go where skill is
not a big factor over a small number of games.
people realized that poker is not a game in which you make a lot of money fast.
And the gamblers have turned to even faster formats like spin&go where skill is
not a big factor over a small number of games.
in fact, SNGs are still live on the pokerstars / Americas Card Room at almost any time of the day or night, and they get together pretty quickly. perhaps it is at Partypoker that they are not so popular due to their structure and lack of selection in themBuwwows said:
