****Juggernaut June Poker Chat Thread******

[GeoffLacey]

lol love the picture/personal title thing enty

 

[WVHillbilly]

Don't understand the check here:

Hero (SB): $56.70 (113.4 bb)
BB: $18.20 (36.4 bb)
UTG+1: $51.90 (103.8 bb)
MP1: $52.95 (105.9 bb)
MP2: $10.75 (21.5 bb)
MP3: $13.50 (27 bb)
CO: $59.60 (119.2 bb)
BTN: $6.75 (13.5 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with J♣ J♥
4 folds, CO raises to $2, BTN folds, Hero calls $1.75, BB folds
Flop: ($4.50) 9♦ 5♦ 7♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3, Hero calls $3
Turn: ($10.50) 8♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7, Hero calls $7
River: ($24.50) T♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

I'm assuming you're checking to induce here so what hands do you think he turns into a bluff on that river? He certainly has plenty of sixes in his range that may not bet but will always call. Add in sets and lots of 2 pair type hands and I think it's a very definite value bet.

 

[zachvac]

played 4 tables and just sorta sweated
talked a bit about my 3betting range blinds vs BTN or BTN vs CO, and to what it should be, which is split up in 3 parts:
nut hands,
medium strength hands like KJ/mid pps, etc
and air hands like 33/22/scs

3-betting 22/33 as a bluff is pretty bad in any spot. SCs have so much more equity and are so much easier to play against a calling range whereas with a PP if you don't flop a set and they flat your 3-bet you'll be playing oop with an underpair in a 3-bet pot, not fun (nor particularly profitable to do anything but ch/f or try to cbet or something that again doesn't rely on your hand's equity at all). So unless you think it's profitable as a bluff 3-bet 100% of the time (which means if you had 29o in that spot you would also 3-bet) you pretty much should never be 3-betting 22/33. No idea who/how good your coach is but I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

lol love the picture/personal title thing enty

BLING BLANG BLAOW

 

[eNTy]

This is what he said about it zach:

you have 3 different ranges when you're 3bing
small pairs and small sc's
mid pairs and mid broadway
and QQ+ AK nut hands

if you have no read on your opp you want to be polarized QQ+ AK and small sc's and pairs, air and nuts, when you find out more about their calling range of your 3b's you can adjust. not in blind play, if they're really tight you raise more
this is diff if they're calling very tight then you want to be polarized.
AQ and mid pairs hands like KQ and AJ suck. So 57s and 33 etc. are awesome good implied odds, no domination, easy to play.

But when they call 3b's very wide TJs QJs AJ and KQ are amazing.
and 57s and 33 are nowhere near as good. they have more draws more semi-bluffs and gutties etc. more they can put money in with and we don't have any bluffing equity w/pairs. bottom line is that you can't 3b AJ and stack off happy vs. a tight caller but you can vs a loose monkey.

tighter they call more you polarize
looser they call more you 3b mid strength and nut and not the small stuff

fwiw i think he knows his stuff pretty well. he is a CR coach and got tons of good reviews from other people who used him on 2+2 coaching advice section

 

[vanquish]

session #2 of today started

i'm a beast, i'm a dog, i'm a mother****in problem

 

[dsvw56]

Brag : Spent all day drinking beer out on my deck.

Beat : Was staining the deck.

 

[zachvac]

This is what he said about it zach:

you have 3 different ranges when you're 3bing
small pairs and small sc's
mid pairs and mid broadway
and QQ+ AK nut hands

if you have no read on your opp you want to be polarized QQ+ AK and small sc's and pairs, air and nuts, when you find out more about their calling range of your 3b's you can adjust. not in blind play, if they're really tight you raise more
this is diff if they're calling very tight then you want to be polarized.
AQ and mid pairs hands like KQ and AJ suck. So 57s and 33 etc. are awesome good implied odds, no domination, easy to play.

But when they call 3b's very wide TJs QJs AJ and KQ are amazing.
and 57s and 33 are nowhere near as good. they have more draws more semi-bluffs and gutties etc. more they can put money in with and we don't have any bluffing equity w/pairs. bottom line is that you can't 3b AJ and stack off happy vs. a tight caller but you can vs a loose monkey.

tighter they call more you polarize
looser they call more you 3b mid strength and nut and not the small stuff

fwiw i think he knows his stuff pretty well. he is a CR coach and got tons of good reviews from other people who used him on 2+2 coaching advice section

I agree with almost everything here apart from PPs, they're just awful to be 3-betting as opposed to SCs and there's no reason to have to include all of both in our 3-bet range because that would make it rediculously high. fwiw I've talked about this concept with people who are beating 1knl+ so it's not like some random notion I came up with.

And why so secretive, why not just give the name?

 

[eNTy]

yeah all the rest sounds right to me, to be fair the small pps is only a small thing in the general point he was making..
and its not like i need to be 3betting every small pair i get in the blinds to a late raise
all this obviously comes with reads on the player and looking at board texture and stuff

no real secret just dont know if i should be telling everyone without him knowing on a different forum
anyways u know now..

 

[cAPSLOCK]

BLING BLANG BLAOW

Completely.

I agree with almost everything here apart from PPs, they're just awful to be 3-betting as opposed to SCs and there's no reason to have to include all of both in our 3-bet range because that would make it rediculously high. fwiw I've talked about this concept with people who are beating 1knl+ so it's not like some random notion I came up with.

Seems to me playing small pairs this way oop beans you'll cbet the flop as a bluff most times. I think it's a level of subterfuge or sneakyness that would only make sense in a setting where you're playing someone who knows your game and also plays well. Even then it's implicitly super-loose.

 

[vanquish]

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

UTG+1: $121.45 (121.5 bb)
MP1: $100 (100 bb)
MP2: $144.30 (144.3 bb)
MP3: $100 (100 bb)
CO: $127.25 (127.3 bb)
BTN: $142.55 (142.6 bb)
Hero (SB): $145.30 (145.3 bb)
BB: $50 (50 bb)
UTG: $242.15 (242.2 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with A

A

UTG raises to $4, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $4, MP2 calls $4, MP3 folds, CO calls $4, BTN folds, Hero raises to $18, BB folds, UTG raises to $58, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $144.30 and is all-in, CO folds, Hero raises to $145.30 and is all-in, UTG calls $87.30

Flop: ($443.90) T

9

8

(3 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($443.90) 7

(3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($443.90) 4

(3 players, 2 are all-in)

Results (listed below in white, highlight to see): $443.90 pot ($3.00 rake)
Hero showed Ad Ac (a pair of Aces) and won $440.90 ($295.60 net)
UTG mucked Ks Kd (a pair of Kings) and lost (-$145.30 net)
MP2 mucked As Qh (high card Ace) and lost (-$144.30 net)

 

[zachvac]

Seems to me playing small pairs this way oop beans you'll cbet the flop as a bluff most times. I think it's a level of subterfuge or sneakyness that would only make sense in a setting where you're playing someone who knows your game and also plays well. Even then it's implicitly super-loose.

But the thing I'm saying is unless we are already 3-betting SCs 100% in that spot and need more hands to 3-bet, there's no point in doing it with PPs. It's as if for some reason you could only raise 1% of hands preflop and someone told you "I'd mix in 99+/AQ+". They'd be crazy, you just raise AA/KK 100% of the time. Similarly I didn't pokerstove it but I imagine the value 3-bet range combined with all SCs comes out to much more than 20% and I don't know too many people even in a specific spot that 3-bet more than 20%. So there's no reason to include a hand that is less +ev (assuming ATC might even be +ev as long as we keep the frequency down) and remove the one that's more profitable. See what I'm saying?

edit: and as for balance we can still rep plenty of value hands on the flop no matter what so like 345 flop we don't have to have 33-55 in our range to rep sets because we 3-bet QQ+ for value and get those in on 345 flop so we can rep those as essentially nut hands in that spot.

 

[zachvac]

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

UTG+1: $121.45 (121.5 bb)
MP1: $100 (100 bb)
MP2: $144.30 (144.3 bb)
MP3: $100 (100 bb)
CO: $127.25 (127.3 bb)
BTN: $142.55 (142.6 bb)
Hero (SB): $145.30 (145.3 bb)
BB: $50 (50 bb)
UTG: $242.15 (242.2 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with A

A

UTG raises to $4, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $4, MP2 calls $4, MP3 folds, CO calls $4, BTN folds, Hero raises to $18, BB folds, UTG raises to $58, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $144.30 and is all-in, CO folds, Hero raises to $145.30 and is all-in, UTG calls $87.30

Flop: ($443.90) T

9

8

(3 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($443.90) 7

(3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($443.90) 4

(3 players, 2 are all-in)

Results (listed below in white, highlight to see): $443.90 pot ($3.00 rake)
Hero showed Ad Ac (a pair of Aces) and won $440.90 ($295.60 net)
UTG mucked Ks Kd (a pair of Kings) and lost (-$145.30 net)
MP2 mucked As Qh (high card Ace) and lost (-$144.30 net)

nice hand, extra lol at MP2. Let's flat the UTG raise and then shove over him when he 4-bets lol.

 

[KingCurtis]

I want to throw something at whoever on stars or FT messed up the checks...pshhh

 

[vanquish]

i think when i run bad at life i start to run good at poker and vice versa

 

[jewboy07]

i think when i run bad at life i start to run good at poker and vice versa

this occurred to me the other day too!


i was like "damn if it takes me having shitty days and shitty luck in life to run good in poker idk if its worth it"

 

[Deltafrost]

I'ze bored

that is all

 

[cAPSLOCK]

this occurred to me the other day too!


i was like "damn if it takes me having shitty days and shitty luck in life to run good in poker idk if its worth it"

IMHO it would depend quite a bit on the stakes:shitty ratio.

I mean if shitty means you drop your icecream cone and the stakes are 1knl then I don't like rocky road all that much anyway.

If shitty means you break your leg and the stakes are 10nl? I'd rather be riding my bike.

 

[Caseace48]

I suk at pokerz

 

[jewboy07]

IMHO it would depend quite a bit on the stakes:shitty ratio.

I mean if shitty means you drop your icecream cone and the stakes are 1knl then I don't like rocky road all that much anyway.

If shitty means you break your leg and the stakes are 10nl? I'd rather be riding my bike.

haha well since im playing 25nl its not quite worth it, although id probably have to be playing 100nl to make it worth me dropping my ice cream cone

 

[WVHillbilly]

i think when i run bad at life i start to run good at poker and vice versa

I'm the exact opposite. If life sucks my poker suffers.

 

[vanquish]

well that's the 3rd session of the day done

3 more tomorrow then i think i can afford to do only 2 on sunday

 

[dsvw56]

well that's the 3rd session of the day done

3 more tomorrow then i think i can afford to do only 2 on sunday

how long are your sessions?

 

[vanquish]

how long are your sessions?

anywhere from 1.5-6 hrs

 

[WVHillbilly]

I <3 Fridays