MicroCrushers Thread!!!!!

[duggs]

add me I'm keen

 

[spookah123]

May I join this chat? ^_^

 

[duggs]

yup pm one of us your Skype dets and we can add you

 

[DrazaFFT]

How does the skype group works, what requirements one need to fulfill, i would really want to join but i dont know would i be of any good...

 

[vinylspiros]

yea duggs, send me the new group chat if you guys make it. wanna stay connected.

 

[loafes]

Just taken up limit holdem was at a particularly good table and after like an hour or so I was already up 70 big bets!! Despite the number of times I had pots where every street till the river gets cap pen when they hit their draw or two outer.
It's nice to hit quads, I think not raising the flop is good since even though I'd probably get action from what they had I probably wouldn't have been able to cap the turn, not to mention I keep a lot of hands in from the guy behind me who'd otherwise fold to a flop raise.




Hold'em Limit, $0.05 / $0.10 (5-handed) - Played on PokerStars. Converted by GrinderSchool's Hand History Converter

Seat 1: BB ($0.42 in chips)
Seat 2: UTG ($3.06 in chips)
Seat 3: HERO (CO) ($9.11 in chips)
Seat 4: Btn ($1.66 in chips)
Seat 5: SB ($1.89 in chips)

SB posts small blind $0.02
BB posts big blind $0.05

PreFlop: Dealt to HERO [4

4

]
UTG raises to $0.10, HERO raises to $0.15, Btn raises to $0.20, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.10, HERO calls $0.05

*** FLOP *** 7

4

4

(Pot=$0.67)
UTG bets $0.05, HERO calls $0.05, Btn calls $0.05

*** TURN *** T

(Pot=$0.82)
UTG bets $0.10, HERO raises to $0.20, Btn raises to $0.30, UTG calls $0.20, HERO raises to $0.40, Btn calls $0.10, UTG calls $0.10

*** River *** 8

(Pot=$2.02)
UTG checks, HERO bets $0.10, Btn calls $0.10, UTG calls $0.10

*** Showdown *** (Pot=$2.32)
HERO shows [4

4

]
Btn mucks
UTG mucks

HERO wins $2.28

 

[duggs]

why would you ever ever play limit?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

why would you ever ever play limit?

This, but also, you HAVE to raise flop, you'd raise worse for value, they'll continue with so much worse and assume it's good.

 

[xdeucesx]

How does the skype group works, what requirements one need to fulfill, i would really want to join but i dont know would i be of any good...

absolutely none. Players from all skill levels are around and everyone is really friendly. No webcams or anything, just chatting....think AIM chat rooms except for poker.

 

[loafes]

I've been thinking about playing limit because even though edges are obviously smaller, you can play so much higher of a much shorter roll. Plus there's less variance which is nice.

As for the hand I thought flat calling flop was the best way to get Max value. However I dondt notice that pre flop was capped. Given that pre was capped I guess I should haveraised flop. I think in much smaller pots flatting might be a clever way to get extra value from button

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Limit Hold'em actually has notoriously high variance. Much higher than no limit. I know it feels like pots are smaller, but especially at low stakes, people will be chasing a lot, you'll have to rely on hitting cards, and as you say, edges are small. The biggest single factor in how much variance you will experience is your edge.

 

[loafes]

Yeah I realised after posting that it came out wrong. I realise limit has more variance, I've seen enough times where every street until the river gets capped when they hit their guts hot/flush/two friggen outter. It hurts more because those big pots are hard to make back. I think what I meant is that it feels more consistent some how in regards to bankroll building. Maybe its in my head because I don't know how it works, I think maybe it's because the swings aren't so wildly up and down. By that I mean that down swings are more of a downward incline and vice versa for up swings.

Anyway it's not like I'm going to necessarily make the switch to limit, it's just something I'm experimenting with at the moment. The main reason is because it allows me to play significantly higher stakes than NL off of the same roll. I heard that 150BBs is sufficient bankroll for the micro limit games but 150bbs isn't even 1 buy in for no limit. Even using 300BB BRM I could play $0.50/$1 limit or 10NL where 1BB/100 would be equal to 10bbs/100

 

[spookah123]

PokerStars Hand #117563237438: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2014/06/15 13:50:15 ET
Table 'Aneas II' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: slyking22 ($5.02 in chips)
Seat 2: AAsweets ($6.05 in chips)
Seat 3: likethisgame ($5 in chips)
Seat 4: boishakhy ($7.93 in chips)
Seat 5: Teareal ($5.72 in chips)
Seat 6: Spookah123 ($5 in chips)
slyking22: posts small blind $0.02
AAsweets: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Spookah123 [As Qc]
likethisgame: folds
boishakhy: folds
Teareal: folds
Spookah123: raises $0.10 to $0.15
slyking22: raises $0.25 to $0.40
AAsweets: folds
Spookah123: calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [5s Qh Ah]
slyking22: bets $0.50
Spookah123: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [5s Qh Ah] [8s]
slyking22: checks
Spookah123: bets $0.65
slyking22: calls $0.65
*** RIVER *** [5s Qh Ah 8s] [Ad]
slyking22: checks
Spookah123: bets $1.52
slyking22: calls $1.52
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Spookah123: shows [As Qc] (a full house, Aces full of Queens)
slyking22: mucks hand
Spookah123 collected $5.93 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.19 | Rake $0.26
Board [5s Qh Ah 8s Ad]
Seat 1: slyking22 (small blind) mucked [Jd Qd]
Seat 2: AAsweets (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: likethisgame folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: boishakhy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Teareal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Spookah123 (button) showed [As Qc] and won ($5.93) with a full house, Aces full of Queens

Ahh the micros...

 

[ScottishMatt]

Dis is good yeah?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 122 BB (VPIP: 28.13, PFR: 28.13, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 33)
UTG: 111.6 BB (VPIP: 29.55, PFR: 29.55, 3Bet Preflop: 13.33, Hands: 45)
Hero (CO): 100 BB
BTN: 171.2 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
SB: 148.3 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 17.65, Hands: 46)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:heart: K:club:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero raises to 22 BB, SB calls 13 BB

Flop: (45 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond: 5:club: K:diamond:
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (45 BB, 2 players) 3:diamond:
SB bets 13 BB, Hero calls 13 BB

River: (71 BB, 2 players) 5:diamond:
SB checks, Hero bets 65 BB and is all-in

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Not really sure why we're checking back the flop tbh.

 

[ScottishMatt]

Because if he isn't loose, sorry that's the wrong word. If he isn't un-tight enough to get QQ in pre then he isn't un-tight enough to X/C a Cbet in a 4Bet pot with an underpair. I see no worse hands that are calling on that flop. And I don't expect anything better than TPTK to fold.

Why would I want to bet there?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Then why are we 4betting (IP) if we can't cbet a K-high, wettish board for value?

 

[ScottishMatt]

Because we can comfortably 4B/GII pre. I don't expect many 10NL regs to be flatting 4Bets OOP without the slowplayed nuts. Don't get me wrong I could cbet here and I would GII vs AK/KK/AA and it would be just as if I had got it in PF. So I Cbet and then just chalk it up to a cooler when I GII against better OR I could pot control and make use of my position to try and extract from the few weaker hands he can possibly have here.

 

[Logan2]

But by pot control we are also risking he catch up and improve, if we think he could have QQ and not cb flop then he easy could have a QQ with a diamond that improve on river just because we let him get there, he also can hit another queen on later streets. By beting if he folds we still get 45bb´s which are almost half stack, if he don´t fold then we know can let go. If he don´t call on flop is rare going to call future streets unless improve.

Also, are we shoving river because we think better can fold?, because if we don´t bet on flop because no worst call, then the same go for river, don´t see worst calling river, even could be that the worst improve now and we just spew.

Is it because we think like AA with no diamonds fold?

Also mention if is a reg will not expect flating OOP without nuts, but also mention you could gii on flop and if is vs AK/AA/KK is just a cooler, but if we know is a reg that only gii with QQ+/AK and we gii with AK then is not a cooler.


​

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Because we can comfortably 4B/GII pre. I don't expect many 10NL regs to be flatting 4Bets OOP without the slowplayed nuts. Don't get me wrong I could cbet here and I would GII vs AK/KK/AA and it would be just as if I had got it in PF. So I Cbet and then just chalk it up to a cooler when I GII against better OR I could pot control and make use of my position to try and extract from the few weaker hands he can possibly have here.

Wait are you saying if we had gotten it in pre, his range would be KK+/AK? If that's the case then there's really no reason to 4b IP imo...

And I think I understand now why you want to shove river. We block KK, slash the one combo of KK can't have a flush, and you don't think he'd play AdAx this way. But he can still have AdKx, and I don't think we can make the assumption that he bets river 100%. Because if he DOES have Ad, then we can't really ever have a flush unless we 4bet with maybe a weak Ax. And even then he knows it wasn't a suited Ax. Or I guess QdQx, if we're even 4betting it for value. And we are probably folding almost our entire non-flush range to a river bet.

 

[ScottishMatt]

No what I'm saying is that we can GII pre vs the standard QQ+/AK range which I would assume almost every reg has at this limit. But I think the portion of that range that we now beat (QQ) isn't going to GII after this flop and therefore by Cbetting we only aim to GII against hands that chop with us or beat us. I need reasons that are sufficient enough to justify betting this flop. Cbetting for the sake of it and then chalking it up to a cooler when I lose isn't good enough IMO.

The fact that 1 card FD's can develop OTT gives me enough reason to assume I'm more likely to make a street of value there from QQ and possibly JJ than I am OTF. Not to mention the fact that I can make plays like this and put him in such a tough spot.

 

[xdeucesx]

ICWUDT Matt but I'm just not sure I agree with it either. I mean it's a tough spot on river but we only have less than a PSB left, so he's getting priced in to call pretty wide. I don't see too many players folding JJ/QQ w/diamond + some slowplayed FH's and the occasional KQd.

Seems like an interesting line, but just not the right spot to use it imo since we just don't really have enough to make him fold a ton of his range imo.

 

[ScottishMatt]

You play a bit higher though deuces. Peoples river betting/calling ranges are ridiculously tight at this limit. FWIW I don't think he is ever checking to induce when he has KK or Ad here. When he checks river I'm pretty sure he has like QdQx or AK without the Ad. Maybe even AA without the Ad. Short of him slowplaying KK or Ad he has a bluffcatcher and I honestly don't think a 10NL reg is capable of bluffcatching a potsize river shove in a 4Bet pot.

Anyway he ended up tank/folding. Line is obv debatable and thanks for the feedback guys. Deuces is it just the river you feel is questionable, are you fine with flop?

 

[A2345Razz]

@ ~ 13bb/100 for over 21k hands on Merge playing almost all 10NL.

EZ game I suppose, but the rake is killing me.

I wish they had a real rakeback program; I would probably take it more seriously (i.e. Grind) and move up to 25NL. I just look at it as a way to keep my cash game sharp right now....or at least ok.

 

[BenjiHustle]

@ ~ 13bb/100 for over 21k hands on Merge playing almost all 10NL.

EZ game I suppose, but the rake is killing me.

I wish they had a real rakeback program; I would probably take it more seriously (i.e. Grind) and move up to 25NL. I just look at it as a way to keep my cash game sharp right now....or at least ok.

Grinding Merge right now also. Changing sites once I've cleared my last bonus, though, because of rakeback. Rakeback is still available on Aced, so I'm just going to move my funds over. Maybe you'd do the same?