MicroCrushers Thread!!!!!

Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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  • #4,176
RESURRECTION!!!

1. I probably bet halfish/fold. There's still plenty worse in his range that can call. We could also x/f if we know he's not betting worse.

2. I tend to just complete here. What are we really hoping to accomplish when we raise? Either we get folds (fine, but probably unlikely), or we go HU or three-way to a flop in the worst position, with a hand that plays pretty badly even with the initiative. As played, bet bigger OTF. As played OTF, I like the turn sizing so you can jam river for just under pot, but his flop calling range is going to be pretty inelastic here I think. So we can just size bigger and gii even more easily on later streets, where his range might become more elastic as the board gets scarier for his weak-ish range.

3. Again, I really think you need to size bigger OTF. It's wet, and there's so many worse hands that aren't going to fold for 80-100% pot. As played, turn and river look good. When he doesn't raise turn I'm not too worried about flushes, but if he has one he's going to x/r, so we can just confidently bet/fold. Turn and river sizing look pretty good to me. On the turn especially I wouldn't go too large, since a good portion of his range is going to be TP OTF which is now 2nd pair OTT. Again, river looks solid.

4. It kind of sucks, because on this kind of board, villain just isn't that strong all that often. So I definitely go for the x/c flop, x/r turn line. If he has an overpair, it's unlikely he gets away, but his range is too air-heavy OTF. We need to give him the chance to barrel it off with gutshots OTT imo. As played, size the river bigger imo. He checks back Tx OTT like 100%, but he's not folding on this particular river when it pairs the J. He's never going to give us credit for better than Tx here.

5. Against an unknown I probably take the same line as you in-game, but I think the turn or the river is probably a fold. Turn I'm on the fence, river I'm pretty sure. You just won't see many opponents donk x 2 with a draw, let alone barrel when it misses. His Kx flatting range in the SB is also generally going to be stronger than ours unless he's a mega-drooler, which is unlikely since he's managed to fold 4 out of his first 5 hands preflop :D So just sigh-fold the river, or make a solid, exploitative turn fold. Again, don't think I find the fold in-game, but seems like a slam-dunk imo.

6. Flop and turn are 100% standard. We're getting 4:1 OTT which means we don't even need to make significantly more money on river bets when we hit, assuming we're even behind. His sizing indicates a weak K or perhaps a pair + GS or pair + OESD type hand to me. I hate the river bet because I think we beat most of his range, and nothing we're ahead of is going to bet the river. I'd much prefer a river x/f, and I don't even think it's that close.

Also, no need to apologize imo. This thread needs life.
 
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redwards92

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  • #4,177
sorry I was going to respond earlier but got busy thanks for the reply man and yeah i had to use search to find the thread lol

I pretty much agree with everything you have said lol and actually had to look up the whole elastic/inelastic thing(cause i'm stupid) but totally get it now and definitely agree.

Also on the QQ hand I think you're right like he barely has many Kx in his range here now that I think about it but I guess in game I didn't want to give up any equity vs any random bluff he might show up with or something and figured if he folds some random Kx that he probably doesn't have than yay for me lol. and if we beat most of his range who knows maybe it was a sick terribly sized thin value bet :D lol jk
 
Matt Vaughan

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  • #4,178
Heh. Glad I could be helpful. Though don't think of yourself as stupid for not knowing a concept. When you first started learning about poker, were you stupid because you didn't know how to calculate simple odds? Of course not - you just hadn't learned it yet. Lack of knowledge isn't an inherent weakness :)

Like kind of a tangent, but I get really pissed when someone goes, "Oh yeah, it's just like this <insert reference to something I haven't heard of>," and I go "Oh, I haven't <experienced relevant thing>." And then they go, "What?! How can you NOT KNOW ABOUT <relevant thing>?!!?!?" :D
 
JOEBOB69

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  • #4,179
<relevant thing> = sex
 
Matt Vaughan

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  • #4,180
Sex? What is sex? I've never heard of that before.
 
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loafes

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  • #4,181
So friggen angry with myself. I've been playing 10nl zoom, 16nl reg tables and even some 25nl zoom. So I haven't played 5nl for some time, subsequently I forgot how fishy they were and I was able to build a stack pretty quickly. Then this happens.

I know I'm already up against a set when they 3bet the flop (maybe I flat the donk bet?) But because of all the other fishy players I convince myself that villain has like a big flush draw/tptk or KQ. I mean we're over 300bb effective stacks and I can't even fold a friggen over pair?? FML. I just couldn't help being effected by all the other fish. Man maybe I need to work on my game a lot after all. Just so annoyed at myself. Villain had 55 btw



*Hold'em No Limit, $0.02 / $0.05 (6-handed) - Played on PokerStars. Converted by
GrinderSchool's Hand History Converter

Seat 1: Btn ($4.53 in chips)
Seat 2: SB ($6.45 in chips)
Seat 3: BB ($4.77 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG ($15.92 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO (MP) ($17.04 in chips)
Seat 6: CO ($5.88 in chips)

SB posts small blind $0.02
BB posts big blind $0.05

PreFlop: Dealt to HERO [A
heart.gif
A
diamond.gif
]
UTG calls $0.05, HERO raises to $0.20, 2 folds, SB calls $0.18, BB folds, UTG calls $0.15

*** FLOP *** 5
club.gif
Q
heart.gif
3
heart.gif
(Pot=$0.65)
SB checks, UTG bets $0.62, HERO raises to $1.79, SB folds, UTG raises to $5.99, HERO calls $4.20

*** TURN *** 6
club.gif
(Pot=$12.63)
UTG bets $9.73(AI), HERO calls $9.73

*** River *** J
diamond.gif
(Pot=$32.09)
 
Matt Vaughan

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  • #4,182
Flop raise is fine. Fold to flop 3b. As played, fold turn. Gross obv, but what is he realistically 3betting the flop to 120 bb with and then jamming 200 bb with. Good thing it was just 5nl tho :)
 
loafes

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  • #4,183
^Thats the thing though, it's pretty much an obvious snap fold on the flop and again on the turn when we're this deep. Maybe with less than 120 bbs I can call it a cooler since then bad players might be getting out of line with top pair or draws. I mean if I'm going to make a habit of not being able to fold over pairs when it's clear I'm beat its going to be a pretty big leak that'll really hurt my win rate in the long run.

I think that at higher stakes, I make the correct fold since I give the players more credit. But even though I see bad players getting way out of line in these spots at 5nl, there really isn't anything to suggest villain is a fish plus even against fish this is probably a clear fold.

I'm just annoyed at myself, not for losing the pot I don't care much for the money. Its that I made a pretty bad decision which probably indicates a lack of discipline in my game.


I reckon I make my own thread in a few weeks time, see if it keeps me focused.
 
loafes

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  • #4,184
Seat 2: SB ($9.90 in chips)
Seat 3: HERO (BB) ($23.81 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG ($23.88 in chips)
Seat 5: MP ($10 in chips)
Seat 6: CO ($12.39 in chips)

SB posts small blind $0.05
HERO posts big blind $0.10

PreFlop: Dealt to HERO [3
heart.gif
3
club.gif
]
2 folds, CO calls $0.10, Btn folds, SB calls $0.05, HERO checks

*** FLOP *** 3
spade.gif
T
club.gif
2
diamond.gif
(Pot=$0.30)
SB checks, HERO bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30, SB folds

*** TURN *** 5
club.gif
(Pot=$0.90)
HERO bets $0.50, CO calls $0.50

*** River *** 8
diamond.gif
(Pot=$1.90)
HERO bets $1.20, CO raises to $2.40, HERO raises to $22.91(AI), CO calls $9.09(AI), Uncalled bet of $11.42 returned to HERO


*** Showdown *** (Pot=$24.88)


What do we think of shoving over the top for value on the river. Are we getting called by worse often enough to make it profitable or do we just call the raise?
 
BearPlay

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  • #4,185
IN.

Rooting for your success, pal ;)
 
duggs

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  • #4,186
im shoving all day
 
Matt Vaughan

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  • #4,187
Bet bigger OTT. As played, river jam is fine - standard imo.

As for not giving fish credit, it's not about giving them credit for being good. It's about making accurate ranges. Most fish are loose passive both pre and post. This means that when they check and call, they have wide ranges. When they are betting and raising, their ranges tend to narrow quite quickly toward the nuts.
 
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spookah123

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  • #4,188
I started playing online poker about two weeks ago until I found out about Hold'em Manager. I study Economics at University so have a pretty good knowledge of mathematics, game theory and statistics and therefore I thought this might be the game for me. I'm averaged 10.8 BB/100 last week over 25k hands or so, not sure if I just got lucky but here is my graph ^_^. I play 8 tables: 1x 5NL, 2x 2NL ZOOM, and 6x 2NL for personal optimization of expected return and variance as my bank roll is low and I believe I am prone to tilting due to a downswing.

I wanted to inquire about my non-showdown winnings; it is quite severely negative and I'm not sure whether this is a leak or not, am I calling down people too often? This may be however because I love extracting maximum value out of my marginal holdings at showdown.
 

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duggs

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  • #4,189
What level economics do you study?
 
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spookah123

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  • #4,190
duggs said:
What level economics do you study?

I just finished my 2nd year, undergraduate level.
 
micromachine

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  • #4,191
Its pretty normal for micro players to have a negative redline. Depends on your style, and imo at 2nl and 5nl you will be way more profitable playing value hands and not bluffing much, which naturally leads to a positve blue and negative red. Ultimately, the green is the only one that matters and it's looking good :)
 
duggs

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  • #4,192
spookah123 said:
I just finished my 2nd year, undergraduate level.

Cool I'm a masters student, just finished my 5 year in total, one more to go
 
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spookah123

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  • #4,193
duggs said:
Cool I'm a masters student, just finished my 5 year in total, one more to go

Sweet, in Economics too I guess? I am also thinking of doing a masters, probably in a finance related field however because that's where all the money is at (other than poker :D). Poker is really fun but I don't think I'm going to pursue it as a main career path; if I did I'd probably become really reclusive.
 
Matt Vaughan

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  • #4,194
Agree with micro, don't worry about your red line. In fact don't worry about your graphs at all, if you can help it. Did you really start playing 2 weeks ago? Or you got Hold'em Manager 2 weeks ago?

In any case, keep up the good work, and welcome to CardsChat! :)
 
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spookah123

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  • #4,195
Scourrge said:
Agree with micro, don't worry about your red line. In fact don't worry about your graphs at all, if you can help it. Did you really start playing 2 weeks ago? Or you got Hold'em Manager 2 weeks ago?

In any case, keep up the good work, and welcome to CardsChat! :)

Hi thanks! Prior to my exams I had played for about a week or two without a HUD, which ended badly. I blew my deposit and sign up bonuses and got down to a $5 bankroll or so. After my exams I studied the game hard reading a number of books and articles and came back to playing poker with Hold'em Manager and got my bankroll to $60 after a week. I've played a total of approximately 50k hands altogether.
 
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spookah123

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  • #4,196
micromachine said:
Its pretty normal for micro players to have a negative redline. Depends on your style, and imo at 2nl and 5nl you will be way more profitable playing value hands and not bluffing much, which naturally leads to a positve blue and negative red. Ultimately, the green is the only one that matters and it's looking good :)

Thanks :)
 
xdeucesx

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  • #4,197
Lets get the skype group back up and running again. If anyone out there wants to join a study group for CC players, send me a pm. Most of the guys on CC who post itt (ducky, scourrge, me, 9k, etc.) are already in the group.
 
Matt Vaughan

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  • #4,198
Who put deuces in charge, eh?

Speaking of canadian accents, whatever happened to jake? He seems to have disappeared. But seriously I will be more active in skype, I promise. Maybe. Probably.
 
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  • #4,199
xdeucesx

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  • #4,200
making a new Skype group so we can actually focus on getting better/keeping people active....spread the word!
 
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