Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

John A said:

I had an idea after reading the below thread and Rhom's post. How about we run some filters?

What do you guys think about this hand?

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/4-nlhe-full-ring-during-shot-282081/

What about running some filters for called 3 and 4-bets with non premium hands when you were getting good pre-flop odds? Maybe someone can post a link if they get them done (or I will when I'm back in).

Click to expand...

The Hand - Im the fish stacking off although it was quite deep so would try and get cheap showdown

For the Filter, Under Basic Filter/Common Filters theres an Option for Called 3Bet - Yes/NO, but there wasnt a Called 4Bet.

Whats the difference between the above Called 3Bet and under Other Advanced Filters there is Preflop - Called Preflop 3Bet.

rhombus said:

Thanks , not sure about the CBET as recently ive been getting blown off alot of hands when CBetting maybe Im just running into alot of big hands or people are getting more aggressive

Click to expand...

Your opponents are folding 45% of the time though, which is on the higher side for today's games. So if you bet around 1/2 pot or so IP you're just printing money. If you c-bet more, this will drop a little bit, but I bet if you track it, that it doesn't drop too much. It's something I'd consider doing if I saw those numbers. It's zoom.

rhombus said:

The Hand - Im the fish stacking off although it was quite deep so would try and get cheap showdown

For the Filter, Under Basic Filter/Common Filters theres an Option for Called 3Bet - Yes/NO, but there wasnt a Called 4Bet.

Whats the difference between the above Called 3Bet and under Other Advanced Filters there is Preflop - Called Preflop 3Bet.

Click to expand...

There is no difference.

I actually ran them both and they seem to be the same
Combo actions: Call 3BET is the same as Called Preflop 3Bet = True

Interestingly when I just selected non premium, everything excluding TT+, AKo/AKs it was lot worse than I thought it would be.

Mine is called 3Bets all hands except TT+, AKo/AKs - wasnt sure about the bit where you said getting good odds

rhombus said:

thanks. What should the BB fold to steal ideally be checked my stats for positon and BB overall isnt great

Click to expand...

I just checked my 6max stats on leakbuster
BB fold to steal should be in the range 68-80%
SB 78-86%
I cold call too much in the BB, try not to let this sneak over 15%

rhombus said:

I actually ran them both and they seem to be the same
Combo actions: Call 3BET is the same as Called Preflop 3Bet = True

Interestingly when I just selected non premium, everything excluding TT+, AKo/AKs it was lot worse than I thought it would be.

Mine is called 3Bets all hands except TT+, AKo/AKs - wasnt sure about the bit where you said getting good odds

Click to expand...

I'd take out AQ also... but as it sits that's good. -250bb/100 or less is great. It will be a small sample, but I'd also just add in a call amount w/ an SPR, but I guess you can't do that in HM2. I believe you can in PT4. Filters are a little more configurable.

You can filter by bet size, I just made mine facing 3 bet size of less than 8bbs. Also make sure to check raise/call under advanced action filters. Mine is -181 but only over 35 hands this year.

The majority of losses seem to come from calling then check/folding the flop.

No Brainer said:

You can filter by bet size, I just made mine facing 3 bet size of less than 8bbs. Also make sure to check raise/call under advanced action filters. Mine is -181 but only over 35 hands this year.

The majority of losses seem to come from calling then check/folding the flop.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess that's true. Can you post the filter somewhere?

Yeah, -181 is good. It's hard w/ these sample sizes to get really good conclusions. I try and look for spots where I won hands w/ rare flops to try and get a picture how I'm really running. Example, I can a 3-bet w/ KQ and the flop is KQx, etc... since there's only ~ 2% chance of this happening, if I had like 30 hands and this happened once or more than once then I know my winrate is a bit skewed.

interested ty!!

John A said:

I'd take out AQ also... but as it sits that's good. -250bb/100 or less is great. It will be a small sample, but I'd also just add in a call amount w/ an SPR, but I guess you can't do that in HM2. I believe you can in PT4. Filters are a little more configurable.

Click to expand...

No Brainer said:

You can filter by bet size, I just made mine facing 3 bet size of less than 8bbs. Also make sure to check raise/call under advanced action filters. Mine is -181 but only over 35 hands this year.

The majority of losses seem to come from calling then check/folding the flop.

Click to expand...

taking out AQo/AQs didnt make much difference although when I changed it to facing 3Bets less than 8bbs it made a massive difference. -512 for 5nl Zoom although up 156 at 2nl Zoom

Top one is Facing 3bets excluding TT+ AQ+
2nd pic is same as above but facing 3bets under 8bbs
3rd pic facing 3bets under 8bbs and Preflop Action Raise/Call

Preflop raise, facing 3 bet of less than 8bb

I don't usually consciously call 3bets with KQ, I used to but not anymore. I ran the filters over my 240K hands from 2015
Looking at calling small 3 bets generally with KQ I'm doing well.
I would have thought that it is mostly fish raising that bet sizing so I'd hope to be doing ok tbh

Figaroo2 said:

I don't usually consciously call 3bets with KQ, I used to but not anymore. I ran the filters over my 240K hands from 2015
Looking at calling small 3 bets generally with KQ I'm doing well.
I would have thought that it is mostly fish raising that bet sizing so I'd hope to be doing ok tbh

Click to expand...

Yeah, you should be doing ok with the first filter. The second filter, ya if you flop the nuts twice in 29 hands your bb/100 is going to be high.

A couple of spots from today's session Both against same villain. He is 23/15, 46% agg over 240 hands, at the start of the day I had him labelled as a nit but after a few more hands changed to a half decent reg.

First hand I think he may have just been playing back at me, the only hands I see raising here are KJ, JJ, maybe AK? And JJ, AK may have even 4 bet pre given that it is BTN vs SB. Is there anything you can do in these spots except let it go?


Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $8.39 (83.9 bb)
UTG: $23.74 (237.4 bb)
MP: $10.70 (107 bb)
CO: $10.64 (106.4 bb)
BTN: $14.57 (145.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2 2
3 folds, BTN raises to $0.25, Hero raises to $0.90, BB folds, BTN calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.90) J K 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.05, BTN raises to $2.75, Hero folds



Looking back at this next one I think 3 betting the turn may have been a better option. Since we basically commit ourselves by raising is shoving the best option?

As played can we call the river? Think I had about $9.20 behind. Also what if the river was a blank and he shoved?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $13.90 (139 bb)
BB: $7.53 (75.3 bb)
Hero (MP): $13.58 (135.8 bb)
CO: $34.72 (347.2 bb)
BTN: $10.51 (105.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A A
Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 6 7 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.50, CO calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.75) A (2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, CO raises to $3.50, Hero calls $2.25

River: ($8.75) K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $30.42 and is all-in, Hero

in the first hand we have to let it go. every card is an overcard and we rarely make a set so getting to showdown is a losing proposition. in the second hand as played I'm folding the river. If it was a blank I call. I think 9 10 most likely raises the flop along with the 2p combos and sets you would think. It kind of looks like he either turned two pair or was just semi bluffing with a flush draw. I like a reraise on the turn.

I guess the question with the first hand is can we ever min 3 bet the flop and fold to a shove when we put him on such a narrow value range? Other factors include his post flop aggression is high and our range includes a lot of hands that hit this flop well

AA IM not convinced this is a fold... he check raises the turn and im expecting him to think we got ak.

He looks like he has a set or 2pair

Snap call river

Often when a villain has just one hand to beat us its really hard for him to have it. According to ed millers new videos. He suggests making calls when u can narrow ur villains range to just 1 hand and expect to see bluffs here

Do we really think vill is check raising flush draws or any draws if this is the case why didnt we reraise this guy.

Not sure bout ed tho ppl say his books were good

Read ur question yes raising on turn is best if he is draw heavy and does look like he has a set so we want to get stacks in. No reads?

No Brainer said:

I guess the question with the first hand is can we ever min 3 bet the flop and fold to a shove when we put him on such a narrow value range? Other factors include his post flop aggression is high and our range includes a lot of hands that hit this flop well

Click to expand...

I'm not min 3betting ever but I don't think it's a good spot to reraise him imo. I don't think you get a fold often enough for it to be profitable. If he's going to give you so much trouble post flop it's better to just set mine pre with 22.

22 setmining oop isnt going to pay off generally. If he folds to 3bets its best option to 3bet

Giving up on flop is best not a good board to cbet

Want to get tricky check raising will help steal

Depends on the villains range. If he's loose it's better to 3bet if he's tight set mining will surely pay off. I go either way on the flop cbetting isn't awesome but neither is giving up..

Yeh but if we are wiling to widen our range we do need discipline so we dont burn money

I agree. I'm guilty of cbetting too much but I've been working on it. I've been trying to let these spots go but it's hard not to take a stab in a juicy 3bet pot. I'm not sure how to calculate which is more profitable though.

Yeh ive been caught out by iplay changing plans within a hand and it never ended good.

So point of 22 is if your 3betting to steal . Our profit is from folds not from post flop unless we get the magic 2 ofc

Calling a BTN raise from the blinds with low pairs is a bad idea against most people, even when we do hit our set it is hard to get paid off. As far as the cbet, what flops are your going to cbet if not this one?

Also, just because we are 3 bet bluffing doesn't mean we should automatically give up post flop. We should be looking for any spots we think are +EV and take them accordingly.

Hmm dry boards are better to bluff at .. this board hits villains ranges.

But like i said b4 we make money from the steal. We are just burning money beyond post flop... if u dont want to giveup whats ur plan...

John A said:

Yeah, you should be doing ok with the first filter. The second filter, ya if you flop the nuts twice in 29 hands your bb/100 is going to be high.

Click to expand...

yeah I did notice that and deliberately included it in the snip to see if you'd pick up on that.
You did tell Dave and I in a sweat recently that we needed to learn to hit flops better .