Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

John A · Feb 25, 2015

fishinthesea said:
Had to lay this down the other day. Tanked for a good minute on the river and didn't know what to do. Of course he has the Queen, right??!

No, he's a fish. I'd just bet/fold small because he'd still be calling with any kind of pair and he's so passive you can fold getting insane odds if he shoves. But as played, I don't blame your fold. He's a fish and he's passive. It's probably the second time he's bluff shoved a river ever.

John A · Feb 25, 2015

I'm think of starting a twitch stream. I've been thinking about it for awhile. Just trying to figure out when I'd have time. I don't think it makes sense for me to show live play though, just because I'm only playing on Bovada right now (and juicy stakes but I don't have a roll on there really). Streaming on Bovada seems dumb since you're giving up your biggest advantage against the regs, which is anonymity. If I'm talking about my play and who I am, I'm just giving away free info.

I was thinking more about going over session hands and talking theory. Maybe taking hands from here and breaking them down. Going over parts of the book, etc...

I dunno... thoughts?

rhombus · Feb 25, 2015

John A said:
Can you Rhombus and Fig, please e-mail our support with this config file:
LBGuide.hem

It's located here by default:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Holdem Manager 2\Config

We couldn't re-produce so we need to see what's in your file so we can fix the issue. TY!

sent via http://www.pokerleakbuster.com/contact.php
Mine was located in C:\Program Files\Holdem Manager 2\Config

Figaroo2 · Feb 25, 2015

John A said:
I'm think of starting a twitch stream. I've been thinking about it for awhile. Just trying to figure out when I'd have time. I don't think it makes sense for me to show live play though, just because I'm only playing on Bovada right now (and juicy stakes but I don't have a roll on there really). Streaming on Bovada seems dumb since you're giving up your biggest advantage against the regs, which is anonymity. If I'm talking about my play and who I am, I'm just giving away free info.
I was thinking more about going over session hands and talking theory. Maybe taking hands from here and breaking them down. Going over parts of the book, etc... I dunno... thoughts?

I like twitch...fknife linked me to this very informative twitch flopzilla session recently
http://www.twitch.tv/komododragonjesus/v/3806384

I also like watching team pokerstars pro xfilxx when he's on, he's been doing it for a while and is very slick. There were over 2200 watching one of his mid afternoon sessions last week. If you register to his page you get email notification of when he's starting a session.
http://www.twitch.tv/xflixx_teampokerstars

mottotom27 · Feb 25, 2015

John I have a question regarding a potential leak. I noticed in PT4 that my overall preflop F3B is 89% which seems way too high, whereas my F3B AFTER RAISE is 68% which seems about right. Is the 89% misleading? Since I am defending fairly wide from later positions (defending some weaker suited broadways and high suited connectors vs resteals). What does the gap indicate? Does the first stat suggest my main leak is that i am calling raises too often and then folding to a squeeze? Or does the normal F3B stat include situations such as player A raises, player B 3bets and I fold in the big blind with 72o?

mottotom27 · Feb 26, 2015

I've also been watching the instructional videos (which are very helpful btw). I have one query regarding the "calling down light" video section. Near the end of the video you suggest not calling to fold on later streets, and that if you call the flop light then you are "committed" to calling down the turn and river. Is this really true? I mean what if the player had very high flop and turn cbet but a low river cbet, could you not then sometimes (depending on board texture) call two streets and fold on the river with a hand like second pair or TP weak kicker?

Figaroo2 · Feb 26, 2015

just calling with 2nd pair on the flop and then letting the hand go unimproved on river or turn is another very common leak and very bad for your redline. Leakbuster picks this up really well. (from personal experience). The problem is that in the absence of draws these hands just don't improve often enough. Often you only have 5 outs to improve.
The way to avoid this leak is to have a definitive plan for the hand made on the completion flop, you should have some ideas pre as well of course.. You do this by assessing your opponent type and picking a strategy for the hand. This may include calling down your most aggressive opponents if you think they have missed the flop but will also include floating and bluffing. Having a proper preflop game really helps here so you don't end up in marginal spots without a plan. If I can't find a plan I fold on the flop which will actually be a lot of the time.
Small pairs. plan hit set or fold on vast majority of flop. Suited connectors looking to make straights and flushes. you may hit a pair but this wasn't your plan so give em up in the absence of draws. etc etc

John A · Feb 26, 2015

mottotom27 said:
John I have a question regarding a potential leak. I noticed in PT4 that my overall preflop F3B is 89% which seems way too high, whereas my F3B AFTER RAISE is 68% which seems about right. Is the 89% misleading? Since I am defending fairly wide from later positions (defending some weaker suited broadways and high suited connectors vs resteals). What does the gap indicate? Does the first stat suggest my main leak is that i am calling raises too often and then folding to a squeeze? Or does the normal F3B stat include situations such as player A raises, player B 3bets and I fold in the big blind with 72o?

I'm not 100% sure I understand the F3b after raise stat. I haven't looked at that before. Can you define that more clearly for me? I tried to google w/o success. I've tried guessing what it means, but I'm giving up now.

John A · Feb 26, 2015

mottotom27 said:
I've also been watching the instructional videos (which are very helpful btw). I have one query regarding the "calling down light" video section. Near the end of the video you suggest not calling to fold on later streets, and that if you call the flop light then you are "committed" to calling down the turn and river. Is this really true? I mean what if the player had very high flop and turn cbet but a low river cbet, could you not then sometimes (depending on board texture) call two streets and fold on the river with a hand like second pair or TP weak kicker?

I assume you mean the calling down light video in leak buster right? That's not me btw, that's Vital Myth. If you can give me a sequence, I can try and view it and give my take though.

John A · Feb 26, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
just calling with 2nd pair on the flop and then letting the hand go unimproved on river or turn is another very common leak and very bad for your redline. Leakbuster picks this up really well. (from personal experience). The problem is that in the absence of draws these hands just don't improve often enough. Often you only have 5 outs to improve.
The way to avoid this leak is to have a definitive plan for the hand made on the completion flop, you should have some ideas pre as well of course.. You do this by assessing your opponent type and picking a strategy for the hand. This may include calling down your most aggressive opponents if you think they have missed the flop but will also include floating and bluffing. Having a proper preflop game really helps here so you don't end up in marginal spots without a plan. If I can't find a plan I fold on the flop which will actually be a lot of the time.
Small pairs. plan hit set or fold on vast majority of flop. Suited connectors looking to make straights and flushes. you may hit a pair but this wasn't your plan so give em up in the absence of draws. etc etc

Good points... I'd just add that in some spots IP you can bluff raise small pairs. You have to pick your boards and opponents well though. And also if you hit pairs with suite connectors, you can semi-bluff raise on the right boards as well. This is good on the flop, because then even if your opponent does have a hand, or gets stubborn w/ a marginal hand you'll usually get the turn checked to you and you can with continue to semi-bluff and apply pressure, or you can check the turn and get the full run out and hope to spike to improve.

John A · Feb 26, 2015

John A said:
I assume you mean the calling down light video in leak buster right? That's not me btw, that's Vital Myth. If you can give me a sequence, I can try and view it and give my take though.

Nm... I just looked at the video and I think I caught what he's talking about. Yeah, all he's saying, and it's something I kind of just said below as well is that either raise w/ these hands so you can make a decision about either continuing to semi-bluff with your hand, or check the turn so you can get to the river, OR make a plan to call down. Have the correct read and information, and then stick to your plan to call down. If you don't have that good information and read, don't play passively and just look to call hoping your opponent will give up. That's a leak, and something you want to purge from your game if you're doing it.

Fknife · Feb 26, 2015

John A said:
I'm not 100% sure I understand the F3b after raise stat. I haven't looked at that before. Can you define that more clearly for me? I tried to google w/o success. I've tried guessing what it means, but I'm giving up now.

Omg, Fold to 3Bet is counted at any time you fold to a 3bet: [Donk1: Open-Raises, Donk2: 3Bets, Hero: folds] or [Hero: Open-Raises; Donk1: 3Bets, Hero: folds] -> in both situations Hero's F3B increases.

Fold to PF 3Bet After Raising, on the other hand, accounts only for the times Hero was the PFR, got 3Bet (by a Donk ofc

) and folded.

Edit: Oh yea, there is also a squeeze situation...it affects F3B

mottotom27 · Feb 26, 2015

John A said:
Nm... I just looked at the video and I think I caught what he's talking about. Yeah, all he's saying, and it's something I kind of just said below as well is that either raise w/ these hands so you can make a decision about either continuing to semi-bluff with your hand, or check the turn so you can get to the river, OR make a plan to call down. Have the correct read and information, and then stick to your plan to call down. If you don't have that good information and read, don't play passively and just look to call hoping your opponent will give up. That's a leak, and something you want to purge from your game if you're doing it.

Yea i am definitely doing it way too often. For instance I might call the flop with vulnerable hands like 77 on a 6 high board or even second pair (99 on a J high board) and IF the turn card isn't a scare card i call turn and IF the river card also isn't scary then i might call IF he doesn't bet too big. There's a lot of IFs there and i think my reasoning was that i thought it was "standard" and "you can't raise, hard to get value from worse". I guess what i'm not doing enough of is as you say, turning these hands into semibluffs by raising or just folding them outright. But i'm glad leakbuster picked up on this since i think it was quite a major leak.

mottotom27 · Feb 26, 2015

Fknife said:
Omg, Fold to 3Bet is counted at any time you fold to a 3bet: [Donk1: Open-Raises, Donk2: 3Bets, Hero: folds] or [Hero: Open-Raises; Donk1: 3Bets, Hero: folds] -> in both situations Hero's F3B increases.

Fold to PF 3Bet After Raising, on the other hand, accounts only for the times Hero was the PFR, got 3Bet (by a Donk ofc ) and folded.

Edit: Oh yea, there is also a squeeze situation...it affects F3B

I guess in that case F3B PF 3bet after raise is a more useful stat, since nobody really wants to know when someone folds 63o in the blinds facing a raise and reraise. But i think PT should have made it a bit more clear since their "default" F3B stat (which most players would automatically select for their without thinking) is misleading.

Figaroo2 · Feb 26, 2015

Comments welcome on this hand please,
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $7.47 (74.7 bb)
Hero (BB): $11.81 (118.1 bb) playing TAG
UTG+2: $10.56 (105.6 bb)
MP1: $10 (100 bb)
MP2: $10.45 (104.5 bb)
MP3: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $11.11 (111.1 bb)
BTN: $11.83 (118.3 bb) 23/20/agg%45 in 116 hands semi LAG, but not positionally aware. 30% opening range from btn.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9♠ A♦
5 folds, BTN raises to $0.25, SB folds, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.55) A♠ 9♥ K♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.55) 5♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.26, BTN raises to $0.98, Hero calls $0.72

River: ($2.51) 9♦ (2 players)
Hero ??
If we bet how much?
If we check are we looking to CR?

John A · Feb 27, 2015

Fknife said:
Omg, Fold to 3Bet is counted at any time you fold to a 3bet: [Donk1: Open-Raises, Donk2: 3Bets, Hero: folds] or [Hero: Open-Raises; Donk1: 3Bets, Hero: folds] -> in both situations Hero's F3B increases.

Fold to PF 3Bet After Raising, on the other hand, accounts only for the times Hero was the PFR, got 3Bet (by a Donk ofc ) and folded.

Edit: Oh yea, there is also a squeeze situation...it affects F3B

How PT and HM handle these stats are much different. HM's fold to 3-bet is as it should be, which I guess is the fold to PF 3-bet after raising. I'm not even sure why you'd want the other stat PT is creating. I wouldn't use it and I can't find it useful. The way he was wording it too, and the way the PT title is I thought it had to do with 3-bet positioning.

Any ways, yeah your fold to PF 3-bet after raising (fold vs 3-bet) is within a normal range Motto. I'd look more at your IP vs OOP.

John A · Feb 27, 2015

mottotom27 said:
Yea i am definitely doing it way too often. For instance I might call the flop with vulnerable hands like 77 on a 6 high board or even second pair (99 on a J high board) and IF the turn card isn't a scare card i call turn and IF the river card also isn't scary then i might call IF he doesn't bet too big. There's a lot of IFs there and i think my reasoning was that i thought it was "standard" and "you can't raise, hard to get value from worse". I guess what i'm not doing enough of is as you say, turning these hands into semibluffs by raising or just folding them outright. But i'm glad leakbuster picked up on this since i think it was quite a major leak.

Well, nothing is concrete of course. I wouldn't use the word never like he did in the video. I think the point is more, make sure you're being more definitive about your decision making and have a plan. If you're somewhat unsure about your reads or how your opponent is playing, you're betting off raising or folding.

But it's an important leak to look at and really examine. Leak Buster is good for something. Don't tell anyone though.

John A · Feb 27, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
Comments welcome on this hand please,
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $7.47 (74.7 bb)
Hero (BB): $11.81 (118.1 bb) playing TAG
UTG+2: $10.56 (105.6 bb)
MP1: $10 (100 bb)
MP2: $10.45 (104.5 bb)
MP3: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $11.11 (111.1 bb)
BTN: $11.83 (118.3 bb) 23/20/agg%45 in 116 hands semi LAG, but not positionally aware. 30% opening range from btn.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9♠ A♦
5 folds, BTN raises to $0.25, SB folds, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.55) A♠ 9♥ K♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.55) 5♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.26, BTN raises to $0.98, Hero calls $0.72

River: ($2.51) 9♦ (2 players)
Hero ??
If we bet how much?
If we check are we looking to CR?

I'm not a big fan of river CR's but this is about as ideal as you get. The turn brought some draws, you're facing a LAG who will bluff, the river bricked, your perceived range isn't super strong , and you filled up. I'd be check shoving and hope he either hero calls or spiked a turn set. He most likely has 87/67 or a flush draw though.

skrsh76 · Mar 1, 2015

Should I move up?

I have been playing 2NL for this long and am wondering if I should move to 5NL. If so what adjustments I need to make

Or should I play some more in 2NL?

John A · Mar 1, 2015

skrsh76 said:
I have been playing 2NL for this long and am wondering if I should move to 5NL. If so what adjustments I need to make

Or should I play some more in 2NL?

That's actually not a lot of hands, but as long as you're rolled I would move up. I don't think there's really any adjustments you'll need to make yet. Just continue to work on building a good foundation and you'll be fine as you move up from 5nl to 10nl also.

skrsh76 · Mar 2, 2015

The villain had 4BI stack. Played a lot of hands 40% and called a lot of raises as well.. In an earlier hand he called and donked from BB my pfr from LP and folded to my flop 3bet. Please review if this line is fine?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

SB ($3.03)
BB ($2.76)
Hero (UTG) ($2.26)
MP1 ($4.75)
MP2 ($2.10)
CO ($9.10)
Button ($2)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K

, A

Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, CO calls $0.08, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.19) 8

, K

, J

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.09, CO calls $0.09

Turn: ($0.37) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.19, CO calls $0.19

River: ($0.75) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.36, Hero calls $0.36

Total pot: $1.47 | Rake: $0.05

mottotom27 · Mar 3, 2015

John I have a question regarding how the leakbuster overall grading system works. I currently have 35 leaks and scored an A- grade (tiny sample though), my friend has 25 and scored B. what is the likely explanation for the difference in grades? also in the general stats column, what do the blue, green and red dots represent underneath the stats ranges and what does the + - mean?

John A · Mar 3, 2015

skrsh76 said:
The villain had 4BI stack. Played a lot of hands 40% and called a lot of raises as well.. In an earlier hand he called and donked from BB my pfr from LP and folded to my flop 3bet. Please review if this line is fine?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

SB ($3.03)
BB ($2.76)
Hero (UTG) ($2.26)
MP1 ($4.75)
MP2 ($2.10)
CO ($9.10)
Button ($2)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K

, A

Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, CO calls $0.08, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.19) 8

, K

, J

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.09, CO calls $0.09

Turn: ($0.37) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.19, CO calls $0.19

River: ($0.75) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.36, Hero calls $0.36

Total pot: $1.47 | Rake: $0.05

Bet more on the flop, bet more on the turn, shove the river. You lost a lot of value in this hand by under betting everywhere. Why were you betting so small against someone who is playing too many hands and will flop second best hands a ton?

John A · Mar 3, 2015

mottotom27 said:
John I have a question regarding how the leakbuster overall grading system works. I currently have 35 leaks and scored an A- grade (tiny sample though), my friend has 25 and scored B. what is the likely explanation for the difference in grades? also in the general stats column, what do the blue, green and red dots represent underneath the stats ranges and what does the + - mean?

Not every leak is the same, so there's a weighting system in LB. We call this winrate impact, and it's a somewhat complex calculation, but it essentially looks at the sample size, peak winrates for X leak versus what you are scoring and then assigns a number to it. We used to show this a few years back but it confused too many people so it's just done internal now. I've usually only seen about a 1 grade spread with that much of a leak difference. Is he running the same version as you?

mottotom27 · Mar 3, 2015

Sorry the figures I gave weren't entirely accurate. He could actually have had 28 leaks and scored B+, all i remember is he had a lower grade with fewer leaks. i noticed with the + - that if you click + the coloured area in the graph for each leak moves to the right and if you click - it moves to the left. Does this represent some sort of margin of error based on your sample size? As for the blue, red, green dots which display bb/100 if you hover your cursor over, at first i thought this was average winrates for this range, but then those winrates seem very low, usually up to 2bb/100. what is the real meaning of these dots?

Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

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