*****Vinyl's GonnaCrushDAmicros 6max thread******

[vinylspiros]

Vinyl.......

Stop flatting huge hands pre like this and stop checking flops with big hands like the KK on T9x.

KK when you flat pre is just wrong. Why on earth do you want it to go possibly 4way to the flop? It's just a pair. It does NOT play incredibly well in MW pots. I know you wanna get "tricky" all the time but these are the types of things that will keep your bankroll around where it is. Get the money in!

And 88 hand. What does his 30% 3bet actually look like over 85 hands? 3/10? If so, I'm not convinced here. I dunno man. I mean I don't hate your call pre, but I wish we were deeper for this. On the flop, it's hard to say since we do have an overpair but I'm not one for raising there. I'd rather flat and see what he does on the turn. If he barrels big again, I toss the hand no problem. But I def don't jam the flop and let him play pretty perfect since he's just not gonna fold better ever. 66+ is snapping more than likely. Ugh just don't like it.

I dont like the 88 hand either. It was spew and your right, my jam is mostly folding out worse. I just saw his stats looking over aggro and didnt want him to bully me out of the pot esp since i believed i might have the best hand.



Blob as far as the flatting monsters bit. I totally get where your coming from but 4betting at 10NL is like waving a red flag that we have kings or aces.

I just just just played another hand where i flatted AA pre to bring more players into the pot and look at how well it worked out again. If i dont flat , i dont get paid.

there is bigger risk of getting sucked out on but we can always lay it down if flop is not favorable. Thing is ,when it is, we DO have a better chance to get paid.

Im not really getting tricky, im just trying to ensure i get paid.

Please look at this.



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

SB ($7.87)
BB ($4.97)
Hero (UTG) ($10)
MP ($20.81)
CO ($3.95)
Button ($9.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, A

Hero raises to $0.30, MP calls $0.30, 1 fold, Button raises to $1.35, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.05, MP calls $1.05

Flop: ($4.20) 3

, 3

, 2

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $1, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($7.20) 6

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets $6.75 (All-In), Hero raises to $7.65 (All-In), 1 fold ( The only reason button shoves is because i take the line that i do)

River: ($20.70) 5

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $20.70 | Rake: $1.03

Results below:

Spoiler

Button had A

, Q

(one pair, threes).
Hero had A

, A

(two pair, Aces and threes).
Outcome: Hero won $19.67

 

[Blobweird123]

Ugh. Ok 88 hand I don't mind that we fold out worse since overcards have some equity, but when his range there is leaning toward better hands that prob don't fold it's not good.

On to the rest. Ok you say they fold pre to 4bets. Yup its called poker. Sometimes when we 4bet KK we get QQ to jam or call, other times AA, and often folds. Cool, ill take that dead money rather than being beat by a hand that had every right to see a flop when we don't raise and it goes multiway. On to your folding on non-favorable flops. Villain raises. He gets 3b and we cold call, villain cold calls with 33. Flop comes 853r. We folding to action? Nope. We're just getting stacked while villain laughs at us and scoops a pot. I'm all for flatting AA/KK pre when its appropriate. Ive done it enough times. These situations are not those times.

 

[Blobweird123]

And now just checked results on last AA hand. Villain plays it like this yet you don't think he calls or jams vs a 4bet pre? Come on man...

 

[vinylspiros]

Ugh. Ok 88 hand I don't mind that we fold out worse since overcards have some equity, but when his range there is leaning toward better hands that prob don't fold it's not good.

On to the rest. Ok you say they fold pre to 4bets. Yup its called poker. Sometimes when we 4bet KK we get QQ to jam or call, other times AA, and often folds. Cool, ill take that dead money rather than being beat by a hand that had every right to see a flop when we don't raise and it goes multiway. On to your folding on non-favorable flops. Villain raises. He gets 3b and we cold call, villain cold calls with 33. Flop comes 853r. We folding to action? Nope. We're just getting stacked while villain laughs at us and scoops a pot. I'm all for flatting AA/KK pre when its appropriate. Ive done it enough times. These situations are not those times.

I hear ya Blob. guess your right.

this hand just happend. I guess this is the kind of situation you are referring to.



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

MP ($17.46)
Hero (CO) ($10.15)
Button ($10.75)
SB ($9.85)
BB ($4)
UTG ($8)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6

, 6

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 2

, 10

, 6

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.90) 3

(3 players)
SB bets $0.90, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.15, SB raises to $5.40, Hero raises to $7.65, SB raises to $9.55 (All-In), Hero calls $1.90

River: ($20) 7

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $20 | Rake: $1

Results below:

Spoiler

SB had 4

, 5

(straight, seven high).
Hero had 6

, 6

(three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: SB won $19

not betting flop sure did cost me

 

[Blobweird123]

And meh. Im betting flop there all day and still going broke lol. 3rd nuts with draws out therenisnjust a cooler imo. And my 4b on turn would just be a jam. No need for going smaller.

 

[duggs]

omg bet flop with 66……..

 

[vinylspiros]

And now just checked results on last AA hand. Villain plays it like this yet you don't think he calls or jams vs a 4bet pre? Come on man...

With AQ suited? realistically? No way. I honestly dont think that there are too many people flatting or jamming 4bets with AQ suited. Even at 10NL.

eight out of ten are folding it imho.

 

[duggs]

dude you can't really say that you don't have time to think with 4 tables AND say that having less wouldn't make a difference.

4 tables off zoom isn't the optimal amount to learn with.

 

[vinylspiros]

And meh. Im betting flop there all day and still going broke lol. 3rd nuts with draws out therenisnjust a cooler imo. And my 4b on turn would just be a jam. No need for going smaller.

omg bet flop with 66……..

LOL. i know right. No more getting all smartypants. Todays session is up 35$ so far. was up 45$ but that 66 hand messed me up.

thnks guys. THANK YOU VERY MUCH for opinions. Very much needed.

 

[duggs]

no vin no

frequency of someone calling a 4bet or 5bet jamming AQs pre>>>>>>>frequency of someone bet/jamming AQ high with no draws 3 way in a 3bet pot

 

[vinylspiros]

dude you can't really say that you don't have time to think with 4 tables AND say that having less wouldn't make a difference.

4 tables off zoom isn't the optimal amount to learn with.

Im doing 3 now and the difference is huge. I can really put good thought into 3 tables.

 

[vinylspiros]

no vin no

frequency of someone calling a 4bet or 5bet jamming AQs pre>>>>>>>frequency of someone bet/jamming AQ high with no draws 3 way in a 3bet pot

RIGHT! right man. i see your point.

 

[vinylspiros]

nh's, don't understand why you're limping behind the UTG limp though in the first AQ hand.

hey RAM!,, long time no see. well i over limped cause i didnt want him to pull a limp/raise on me.

just figured id play it IP and take it from there.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I'm a number of posts behind, here, and obv haven't subbed til now (oops), but to comment on decreasing number of tables:

If you find yourself forcing action when playing "only" 2 tables of zoom/rush, then maybe try to progress to where that isn't an issue. Because as others have said, decreasing tables is where you improve your game by leaps and bounds. It's been said many times before, but playing fewer tables means higher focus on each table.

On a personal note, my biggest stretch of improvement happened when I was playing 25nl on Bovada. At the time, they only let you play 1-table of zone (like zoom/rush), and I didn't like mixing regular and zone tables. So I was literally 1-tabling 25nl at like 125 hands/hr. Even though I wasn't seeing as many hands, I was improving MUCH more rapidly, because I could literally think so much more deeply about each hand I was in. That month-ish long stretch was easily the most and fastest I'd improved in a very long time.

Just my 2c. In for hot gurlz and shit.

 

[vinylspiros]

I'm a number of posts behind, here, and obv haven't subbed til now (oops), but to comment on decreasing number of tables:

If you find yourself forcing action when playing "only" 2 tables of zoom/rush, then maybe try to progress to where that isn't an issue. Because as others have said, decreasing tables is where you improve your game by leaps and bounds. It's been said many times before, but playing fewer tables means higher focus on each table.

On a personal note, my biggest stretch of improvement happened when I was playing 25nl on Bovada. At the time, they only let you play 1-table of zone (like zoom/rush), and I didn't like mixing regular and zone tables. So I was literally 1-tabling 25nl at like 125 hands/hr. Even though I wasn't seeing as many hands, I was improving MUCH more rapidly, because I could literally think so much more deeply about each hand I was in. That month-ish long stretch was easily the most and fastest I'd improved in a very long time.

Just my 2c. In for hot gurlz and shit.

HAHA. I hear ya scourge. Yea playing fewer tables is obviously going to allow us to make better reads.


I can comfortably play 3 tables of zoom and make pretty solid decisions as ive been on it for more than a year now. Its only when i put in the 4th that i find my play to be super automated and i am definitely folding more than i should be.


Going to be playing between 2 and 3 depending on how i feel. Good that you subbed man. Can only bring good things to this thread.




On a side note, just played this hand and river made me puke.

Dont know if anyone hates my line but i thought :" this guy is commiting himself so i dont see any reason in raising as i was 100% sure he had an overpair"

This is how a dream flop turns into a river nightmare.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($10.05)
UTG ($13.58)
Hero (MP) ($11.27)
CO ($10)
Button ($41.08)
SB ($11.03)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5

, 5

UTG raises to $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds, BB raises to $0.80, UTG calls $0.55, Hero calls $0.55

Flop: ($2.45) 5

, 8

, 8

(3 players)
BB bets $1.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.80

Turn: ($6.05) 6

(2 players)
BB bets $3.10, Hero calls $3.10

River: ($12.25) 8

(2 players)
BB bets $4.35 (All-In), Hero calls $4.35 (while calling i obviously hated myself but i dont think its mathematically correct to fold as there is a slight chance in a gazillion that he might have AK,although he never ever does)

Total pot: $20.95 | Rake: $1.04

Results below:

Spoiler

BB had Q

, Q

(full house, eights over Queens).
Hero had 5

, 5

(full house, eights over fives).
Outcome: BB won $19.91

EDIT: my river call is so gross. I really tthrew away the extra 4 bucks for no reason. right??

 

[vinylspiros]

Line is standard right?

Cause after he calls turn, im not sure whether i should check call river for a little pot control. or maybe bet smaller.

villains stats: 19/17/6.6 6.5% 3bet (this guy looks like hes good)

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

CO ($15.98)
Button ($12.24)
SB ($10.67)
BB ($18.13)
Hero (UTG) ($10.23)
MP ($12.33)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 3

, 3

Hero raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Button calls $0.35, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.85) 10

, 2

, 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.65, Button calls $0.65

Turn: ($2.15) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.65, Button calls $1.65

River: ($5.45) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $4.19,

 

[vinylspiros]

Legit question: Is calling river here ever acceptable?


villains running: 37/26/1



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($3.24)
UTG ($14.26)
MP ($4.36)
CO ($11.29)
Hero (Button) ($10.99)
SB ($4.24)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J

, J

2 folds, CO raises to $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.85) 9

, 9

, 6

(2 players)
CO bets $0.68, Hero calls $0.68

Turn: ($2.21) K

(2 players)
CO bets $2.21, Hero calls $2.21

River: ($6.63) 3

(2 players)
CO bets $3.70, Hero???? should i have just folded turn? It felt like the king was a good card for him to continue to rep,esp his sizing looked bluffy as well. Lost it in this hand.

 

[micromachine]

55 - yeah you have to fold the river I think

33 - Bet fold smaller on the river, around $3, to get value from stuff like Tx, 99 and JJ.

JJ - Never mind about the river the turn is a fold imo

 

[Blobweird123]

55 im raising turn probs just because id hate seeing flush cards/one-liners to straights out there on the river.

33 hand looks fine but I def size smaller on river. Even smaller than duggs said for me. Like 2.50, for same reasons he gave.

JJ yeah the board has double FD/78 for SD etc. But he's not barreling those on a paired board. Turn is an easy fold. I expect to see 9x here way too often.

 

[long_bong]

55 im raising turn probs just because id hate seeing flush cards/one-liners to straights out there on the river.

33 hand looks fine but I def size smaller on river. Even smaller than duggs said for me. Like 2.50, for same reasons he gave.

JJ yeah the board has double FD/78 for SD etc. But he's not barreling those on a paired board. Turn is an easy fold. I expect to see 9x here way too often.

+1:albertein

 

[stately7]

55 - yeah we have to fold river as horrible as it seems. Called smaller in a v. similar situation last night, have vowed never again!

Re Scourrge's point, I'm actually 1-tabling Rush these days as I'm pretty new to "fast" poker. Finding it awesome for growing as a player and just seeing so many situations so quickly, but I can see adding another table if I get used to it more.

Vinyl - was wondering if you were going to post that hand we were in together on Rush 10NL yesterday. You prob shouldn't have peeled my flop C-Bet with 55 on a TT7 board but at least you got me to slow the hell down! Was fun to be in a hand with a CC-er. 😉

 

[vinylspiros]

55 - yeah we have to fold river as horrible as it seems. Called smaller in a v. similar situation last night, have vowed never again!

Re Scourrge's point, I'm actually 1-tabling Rush these days as I'm pretty new to "fast" poker. Finding it awesome for growing as a player and just seeing so many situations so quickly, but I can see adding another table if I get used to it more.

Vinyl - was wondering if you were going to post that hand we were in together on Rush 10NL yesterday. You prob shouldn't have peeled my flop C-Bet with 55 on a TT7 board but at least you got me to slow the hell down! Was fun to be in a hand with a CC-er. 😉

lol, yea man, had to peel at least one street only cause it was you so i was having alot of fun playing against someone who knows my game . Shoulda known you had kings when you opened for 4X. thats a tell BTW😛


Looking forward to seeing you at 10NL again bud. good luck out there.

Fast poker is awesome!!!!

 

[Blobweird123]

Vinyl - was wondering if you were going to post that hand we were in together on Rush 10NL yesterday. You prob shouldn't have peeled my flop C-Bet with 55 on a TT7 board but at least you got me to slow the hell down! Was fun to be in a hand with a CC-er. 😉

Curious to see this one also. Already seems not so good lol. Don't always post all the sick spots/all-ins/we're ahead by miles type hands. Post up some smaller pots too. Hands where it's close etc. Those add up. You may think our w/r is made up mostly from huge all-ins, but they tend to balance out somewhat (they still matter ofc). But also, we need to learn how to play our small pots well since those are what take us that much farther.

So imo, go through your DB and find some spots where you open, then cbet, then barrel turn etc. with air on boards you felt were correct etc. You might learn a thing or two. I might learn a thing or two. Duggs might. We can all benefit from it imo.

 

[vinylspiros]

VILLAINS STATS: 67/57/2.8 33 hand sample.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

Button ($19.96)
SB ($25.13)
BB ($8.73)
Hero (UTG) ($12.99)
MP ($19.67)
CO ($7.86)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, 10

Hero raises to $0.30, MP calls $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.20) 4

, 2

, 2

(4 players)
SB bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.90, 1 fold, SB calls $0.80, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.10) 8

(2 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

River: ($3.30) 8

(2 players)
SB bets $0.70, Hero calls $0.70

Total pot: $4.70 | Rake: $0.23

Results below:

Spoiler

SB had Q

, 7

(two pair, eights and twos).
Hero had A

, 10

(two pair, eights and twos).
Outcome: Hero won $4.47

money made when we call down with ace high is the sweetest kind of money.😱

 

[Blobweird123]

+1:albertein

not sure if troll...or?