*****Vinyl's GonnaCrushDAmicros 6max thread******

[vinylspiros]

Sorry man, egg sucking comments regarding labeling just hadn't seen you mention it before, well intended.
Re the last hand, his range is so wide he could easily have the straight so fold is probably right.
These thin value spots are tough. Its probably +ev in the long run to bet here. John A pointed out to me yesterday you have to make disciplined laydowns if you get raised though in these spots.

yea man, dont worry about it. your comment was legit. Good that you pointed that out in case anyones reading this that doesnt do it. Color coding and note taking is vital.


I too have read that we must be betting these spots ,and thats probably why i bet. Was betting for value obviously but then the way the board ran out everything made it there and i never see Qx reraising river. this is like the easiest fold ever.


I didnt fold though, i called. and thats just to prove im not on my A-game.

Im having a hard time laying things down lately and thas mostly because i see alot of people going crazy with nothing. I keep having to remind myself that i must follow my standard lines and pretend noones ever bluffing.

I think thats the way to go.


Like what i mean is, i think its better to make tight folds than loose calls. Better for our bankroll that is..

 

[vinylspiros]

^^^^^^^ and the main reason i called was because i felt like i was priced in. Question is do we want to be folding hands where we are getting an extremely good price to call although it is most likely that we are beat?

 

[stately7]

Exactly right re the colour coding, i've been note taking but not colour coding, so going to apply this blue, orange and red system and see how that goes. Thanks vin and figaroo re this.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

87, line is perfect on flop and turn. River is a bet/fold (and I probably go 50-60% pot). He's a massive fish, so he's going to call it off with Qx a lot here, but it's a snap-fold when he raises. He has plenty of 9x that gets to the river.

As for notes, do you use PT4? If so, then just use the built-in note function. Don't bother with the site - use your tracker so you can access your notes when doing hand review as well.

 

[vinylspiros]

87, line is perfect on flop and turn. River is a bet/fold (and I probably go 50-60% pot). He's a massive fish, so he's going to call it off with Qx a lot here, but it's a snap-fold when he raises. He has plenty of 9x that gets to the river.

As for notes, do you use PT4? If so, then just use the built-in note function. Don't bother with the site - use your tracker so you can access your notes when doing hand review as well.

Yea, thanks for input on the hand. I thought i played it fine as well until i called his river min-raise. Sighs.


On a side-note, I dont think HM2,which im currently using, has built in notes. Noticed the other day when i was sweating someone that PT4 has that feature and i thought it was really impressive and time saving to say the least.


In the meantime, i have to stick to manual note-taking which sometimes i don't really bother doing because of getting caught up in the action


Gonna get back to note taking though. Thanks scourrge for your opinion.

 

[honeycrush]

HM2 definitely has a notes section. I use it. It's on the top left hand corner of the HUD - a little sticky icon. Just click on that and type away! There are also little pictures that you can attach so that you can add them to your "fish list" or whatever. 🙂

 

[Keith_MM]

not sure if V is referring to auto generated notes or the ability to type your own notes. HM2's auto notes is called notecaddy and the free version is pretty basic, you can buy a more extensive version from the App store and then you can add on copmmercial extensions on top of that to give much more detailed notes and badges.
Having bought bnotecaddy my impression is that at stakes where you get relatively low samples on players the notes probably dont help much. when you are playing the same people day in day out and have big sample sizes then i can see that it could certainly pick out obscure tleaks that you can target and profit from .

 

[vinylspiros]

HM2 definitely has a notes section. I use it. It's on the top left hand corner of the HUD - a little sticky icon. Just click on that and type away! There are also little pictures that you can attach so that you can add them to your "fish list" or whatever. 🙂

not sure if V is referring to auto generated notes or the ability to type your own notes. HM2's auto notes is called notecaddy and the free version is pretty basic, you can buy a more extensive version from the app store and then you can add on copmmercial extensions on top of that to give much more detailed notes and badges.
Having bought bnotecaddy my impression is that at stakes where you get relatively low samples on players the notes probably dont help much. when you are playing the same people day in day out and have big sample sizes then i can see that it could certainly pick out obscure tleaks that you can target and profit from .

NO FREAKING WAY! cant believe i never even bothered to click on notecaddy to see what it is.

Ive never spent any time looking at anything on HM2 except for my stats and my graphs. Going to be devoting tonight to look through every single feature it has.


Thnaks alot guys for the input. Now this is some unexpected good news. Didnt even know HM2 makes notes by itself. will get back with feedback.

so excited. thanks again guys.

 

[vinylspiros]

Feedback needed:


I got into a couple of spots versus "bad aggro" looking villains where i got 3bet pre and i decided to flat.


Is the line im taking here legit? Notice how in both hands, i take identical lines. I tend to take these type of lines sometimes and they do work out. the thing is that i feel they look kind of fishy because if i do have it, would i really be raising on this flop.



. The reason i take this line is because i feel like i am ahead (but am kind of worried about cards that might come out and scare me),,, or think they dont have much either so instead of having to call another bullet on the turn i decide to end the hand right here. Is this train of thought wrong? ( im probably mostly taking this line as a bluff or with a weakish type hand where i think i might be ahead but want to be more sure)


Villains stats: 27/26/4.5 22% -3bet over 89 hands


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($16.90)
UTG ($7.62)
MP ($9.28)
CO ($16.33)
Button ($10.27)
Hero (SB) ($11.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4

, A

UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB raises to $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.70) 5

, K

, K

(2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.86, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold

Total pot: $3.42 | Rake: $0.17

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show 4

, A

.
Outcome: Hero won $3.25

Villains stats: 32/16/1.5 8.3%-3bet over 162 hands.



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

SB ($6.07)
BB ($4.33)
UTG ($6.31)
MP ($11.68)
CO ($4.73)
Hero (Button) ($10.32)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3

, 3

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB raises to $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.55

Flop: ($1.70) Q

, 8

, Q

(2 players)
SB bets $0.90, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold

Total pot: $3.50 | Rake: $0.17

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show 3

, 3

.
Outcome: Hero won $3.33

For example in this 33 hand when he 3bets with a higher PP and i flat and then i raise this flop, isnt it possible that he might be folding the higher PP a reasonable amount of the time?

 

[vinylspiros]

and another similar one:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

SB ($4.20)
BB ($7.18)
Hero (UTG) ($10.30)
MP ($5.05)
CO ($19.09)
Button ($14.42)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10

, A

Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Button raises to $0.90, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.95) 4

, 6

, Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $0.97, Hero raises to $2.70, 1 fold

Total pot: $3.89 | Rake: $0.19

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show 10

, A

.
Outcome: Hero won $3.70

 

[long_bong]

I see what you mean. Yea blob, notes are really important. I used to make detailed notes when i used to play on stars before the LOLself-ban.


On FTP, its not too easy to bring up the notes for some reason. To be totally honest i dont even know how to bring up the player notes on ftp. I just look at the color code and the stats for a general opinion if i need it.



And if you loook back at the hand, i did provide stats. I said hes a fish running 75/55 which probably makes it an even easier fold.


thnks blob. Your offering good things to the thread. much appreciated.

make your notes in HM silly V 😛 >>> And yea the slow tables help you calm down a bit, taking a beat imo at the reg tables vs the rush tables is: 1 the fish is still at our table and we have all that info and history, 2) unless he hit and runs, he is just holding those chips for us right now and we will get em back 🙂

 

[long_bong]

Feedback needed:


I got into a couple of spots versus "bad aggro" looking villains where i got 3bet pre and i decided to flat.


Is the line im taking here legit? Notice how in both hands, i take identical lines. I tend to take these type of lines sometimes and they do work out. the thing is that i feel they look kind of fishy because if i do have it, would i really be raising on this flop.



. The reason i take this line is because i feel like i am ahead (but am kind of worried about cards that might come out and scare me),,, or think they dont have much either so instead of having to call another bullet on the turn i decide to end the hand right here. Is this train of thought wrong? ( im probably mostly taking this line as a bluff or with a weakish type hand where i think i might be ahead but want to be more sure)


Villains stats: 27/26/4.5 22% -3bet over 89 hands


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($16.90)
UTG ($7.62)
MP ($9.28)
CO ($16.33)
Button ($10.27)
Hero (SB) ($11.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4

, A

UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB raises to $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.70) 5

, K

, K

(2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.86, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold

Total pot: $3.42 | Rake: $0.17

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show 4

, A

.
Outcome: Hero won $3.25

Villains stats: 32/16/1.5 8.3%-3bet over 162 hands.



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

SB ($6.07)
BB ($4.33)
UTG ($6.31)
MP ($11.68)
CO ($4.73)
Hero (Button) ($10.32)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3

, 3

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB raises to $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.55

Flop: ($1.70) Q

, 8

, Q

(2 players)
SB bets $0.90, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold

Total pot: $3.50 | Rake: $0.17

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show 3

, 3

.
Outcome: Hero won $3.33

For example in this 33 hand when he 3bets with a higher PP and i flat and then i raise this flop, isnt it possible that he might be folding the higher PP a reasonable amount of the time?

I mean it all depends on dynamics and your opponent but I myself never open oop from the b v b and get involved with a pissing match, Ill 5 bet my hand oop and fold rather than flat villains 4 bet oop with 33 type hands and be lost throughout the hand.

:icon_sunn Overall just try to avoid blind vs blind situations all togeather IMO at lower limits, all we do is loose more than win in these positions. Just go bring up holdem manager and see for yourself, money won vs money lost in the blinds. You will be amazed. And if you gradually pass up on those spots and just fold and see a new hand, in the long run overall your win rate will increase because we are just avoiding those difficult spots all togeather.:icon_sunn

 

[long_bong]

Not to say blind vs blind play is pointless because it is not, but multi tabling micro and low limit games IMO just fold and avoid those spots, make your ranges tighter say 99plus AJ suited plus, but again I myself wouldn't even still be comfy flatting a 4 bet oop with these holdings, id much rather 5 bet oop pre or just muck it- but again all player dependant right. Stats ect.

 

[vinylspiros]

thnks long bong. I reallly agree with you. It's just that earlier in the thread blob suggested i post some of the wierd spots that come up alot and not to just post the huge AA versus set type hands so i wanted to see where others are at in these type of spots.


I feel like i call way too much trying to setmine sometimes. Could be a huge leak.

thnks bro.

 

[Blobweird123]

Villain doesn't 4bet Vinyl. It's a 3bet. And don't ever just fold 33 otb, or A4s in the SB unopened, ever! I don't care if he's 80/65 or 10/8. I don't see much wrong with flatting 33 otb to his 3bet. And honestly, unless proven otherwise, I don't see much wrong with flatting A4s BvB to his 3bet. I do see something wrong with raising 33 though otf. We play the hand to setmine, and that's all. Don't get fancy. Just fold. A4s still just a fold. His range has tons of Kx and smaller pp's that aren't folding. ATs hand is just a fold pre tbh. And on the flop its definitely a fold as well. Don't start gettin carried away Vinyl because where will it end?

 

[Keith_MM]

whats your plan when villains call these bluff raises . You seem to be doing it often and villains are going to notice at regular tables. are you barrelling turn or checking it down .

 

[vinylspiros]

Villain doesn't 4bet Vinyl. It's a 3bet. And don't ever just fold 33 otb, or A4s in the SB unopened, ever! I don't care if he's 80/65 or 10/8. I don't see much wrong with flatting 33 otb to his 3bet. And honestly, unless proven otherwise, I don't see much wrong with flatting A4s BvB to his 3bet. I do see something wrong with raising 33 though otf. We play the hand to setmine, and that's all. Don't get fancy. Just fold. A4s still just a fold. His range has tons of Kx and smaller pp's that aren't folding. ATs hand is just a fold pre tbh. And on the flop its definitely a fold as well. Don't start gettin carried away Vinyl because where will it end?

THANK YOU BLOB. Im getting carried away. Im struggling with my tilt right now. It's making me try to "force " the action.


will be mostly focused on trying to be patient. tonights sessions will be 100% focused on making 100% solid decisions based on default lines. no more funny stuff. thnks for the solid advice man. Still at 270$. (thank god cause with the stunts im pulling it could be way worse).


Right, off to some more and more solid 10NL.

 

[vinylspiros]

whats your plan when villains call these bluff raises . You seem to be doing it often and villains are going to notice at regular tables. are you barrelling turn or checking it down .

TBH the plan usually ends right here on the flop. am not planning to invest another cent unless i do some serious improving on later streets. but the plan is foul anyways so its irrelevant. Gonna stop this kinda stuff from here on. Back to basics.

 

[Figaroo2]

Have you considered 4 bet bluffing with the two Ax hands rather than calling oop? Both of them have high enough 3 bet stats to warrant 4 betting light.
If you get 5 bet you can safely fold those hands, if you get called you have an ace blocker and might still get a result with 30% equity against 10s JJ QQ KK.

 

[Blobweird123]

Have you considered 4 bet bluffing with the two Ax hands rather than calling oop? Both of them have high enough 3 bet stats to warrant 4 betting light.
If you get 5 bet you can safely fold those hands, if you get called you have an ace blocker and might still get a result with 30% equity against 10s JJ QQ KK.

A4s that could be a valid argument. But UTG vs BTN don't see any point. Unless he's a complete idiot, he's not 3betting us light here ever. So yeah, A4s can be a 4bet bluff, ATs is a fold.

 

[duggs]

i honestly wouldn't even mind folding to the 3bet in any of those hands. think about how often he 3bets us, then think about how far down our range those hands are.
33 set mining v a loose range is rubbish for us since we don't have implied odds and its like the stone nut worst possible bluffing candidate.

A4s i can live with a call, but honestly he seems so agg and our A isn't clean, its not like we are fist pumping raise/calling off a flush draw on the flop. 4bet bluff i can live with as its a good candidate for it.

AThh position matters, we are near the bottom of our range, we don't need to defend it.

 

[duggs]

I mean it all depends on dynamics and your opponent but I myself never open oop from the b v b and get involved with a pissing match, Ill 5 bet my hand oop and fold rather than flat villains 4 bet oop with 33 type hands and be lost throughout the hand.

:icon_sunn Overall just try to avoid blind vs blind situations all togeather IMO at lower limits, all we do is loose more than win in these positions. Just go bring up holdem manager and see for yourself, money won vs money lost in the blinds. You will be amazed. And if you gradually pass up on those spots and just fold and see a new hand, in the long run overall your win rate will increase because we are just avoiding those difficult spots all togeather.:icon_sunn

if you are 5betting 33 bvb 100bb eff it should be a shove, 5bet/folding equity away is atrocious but i don't really see why 33 is a good 3bet candidate to begging with bvb

bvb spots are where we should have a huge edge v the player pool, remember blind play needs to be evaluated compared to losing 1bb or 1/2bb. so if by defending a hand bvb we lose .3bb thats a fist pump gain.

 

[vinylspiros]

Have you considered 4 bet bluffing with the two Ax hands rather than calling oop? Both of them have high enough 3 bet stats to warrant 4 betting light.
If you get 5 bet you can safely fold those hands, if you get called you have an ace blocker and might still get a result with 30% equity against 10s JJ QQ KK.

This is going to sound so cheesy but to be totally honest, i dont think i ever 4bet bluff(light) . should i start 4bet bluffing a bit? I just find it to be too risky and im trying to avoid risky spots as much as i can.


EDIT: like for the most part if im 4 betting, im most probably willing to GII.

 

[Blobweird123]

This is going to sound so cheesy but to be totally honest, i dont think i ever 4bet bluff(light) . should i start 4bet bluffing a bit? I just find it to be too risky and im trying to avoid risky spots as much as i can.


EDIT: like for the most part if im 4 betting, im most probably willing to GII.

If you don't understand the when and why, then of course you shouldn't start doing it! Same with anything else in poker man.

 

[Blobweird123]

i honestly wouldn't even mind folding to the 3bet in any of those hands. think about how often he 3bets us, then think about how far down our range those hands are.
33 set mining v a loose range is rubbish for us since we don't have implied odds and its like the stone nut worst possible bluffing candidate.

A4s i can live with a call, but honestly he seems so agg and our A isn't clean, its not like we are fist pumping raise/calling off a flush draw on the flop. 4bet bluff i can live with as its a good candidate for it.

AThh position matters, we are near the bottom of our range, we don't need to defend it.

Yeah I mean I generally fold 33 there. But wasn't sure if that's 100% so didn't wanna give the wrong idea. But totally cool with folding it. And agreed that A4s is probably best folding>raising>calling AFTER his 3bet, obv not before.

AThh is really just a snap fold and don't even question it. As Duggs said, it's pretty much the bottom of our range and won't play well OOP. I'd much rather have a hand like 67s here than ATs. Still folding obv but you get the point.