*****Vinyl's GonnaCrushDAmicros 6max thread******

  • Thread starter Thread starter vinylspiros
  • Start date Start date
Good to see you back posting!

Preflop: Hero is MP with A
spade.gif
, 8
spade.gif

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.10, 2 folds, SB calls $0.08, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.25) 10
club.gif
, 9
club.gif
, 7
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.20, SB calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.65) A
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.53, SB raises to $2.21, Hero ?

Yeah this is an odd raise sizing on the turn, I think he's sitting on a set or has backed into 2 pair with something like Ac7c or AT and he's worried that on such a wet board a draw might come in and wreck his hand.
He's saying he can beat AA and probably figures you aren't folding AK here... the fact that its 5nl and the majority of the field aren't able to fold AK in these spots means it has to be a strong hand so I'm folding.
It's often forgotten that less experienced players can't lay down tptk or an overpair at the lower micros, so big bluffing moves are usually just spew. I err towards check raises being the nuts at this level,
When I have reviewed hands where I have been raised post flop they are the nuts or very strong 95% of the time in such spots. Its only when you get up to 10nl and 25nl that you see such moves as bluffs or semi bluffs a little more often.
We aren't getting anywhere near the right odds to call with at best 8 outs, two of which complete the flush and an Ace likely isn't an out and just fills his boat.
I don't think betting the flop here is wrong, we don't want to give him free cards but personally I would have bet half pot on the turn so as not to inflate the pot too much with a 1pair hand.
 
Last edited:
vinylspiros said:
We have an open ender and we want to be getting more value if we hit + he could have totally missed so i dont see why not? I mean it would be better if we had some backdooor flush possibilities but i dont consider it to be horribad.

I feel like if we check this flop we are playing it a bit too passive. Could be wrong though. Its just the way i see it.
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We semi-bluff to get folds, not to extract value. Just because we flop equity doesn't mean we should be betting. "Getting more value if we hit" implies that we are value betting, and we can't value bet if our opponent calls with hands that have more equity than ours.

Yes, he could have totally missed, but it's likely he caught some piece of it in the form of pairs, two pair or draws and isn't going to fold, so trying to get the smaller percentage of his range to fold is a mistake.

Plus, because of the board texture, there aren't many good barrel cards for us when you think about his calling range. A bunch of over cards complete draws or improve his hand in some way.

I would rather cbet a 972 rainbow flop with JTo. It's a lot less likely that our opponent connected, we are drawing to a hand that will actually get paid if we do get called, and there are good barrel cards for us.

I'm not saying your cbet there is terribad or anything and I'm not always checking, but it's def something to consider.
 
Figaroo2 said:
Good to see you back posting!

Preflop: Hero is MP with A
spade.gif
, 8
spade.gif

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.10, 2 folds, SB calls $0.08, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.25) 10
club.gif
, 9
club.gif
, 7
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.20, SB calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.65) A
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.53, SB raises to $2.21, Hero ?

Yeah this is an odd raise sizing on the turn, I think he's sitting on a set or has backed into 2 pair with something like Ac7c or AT and he's worried that on such a wet board a draw might come in and wreck his hand.
He's saying he can beat AA and probably figures you aren't folding AK here... the fact that its 5nl and the majority of the field aren't able to fold AK in these spots means it has to be a strong hand so I'm folding.
It's often forgotten that less experienced players can't lay down tptk or an overpair at the lower micros, so big bluffing moves are usually just spew. I err towards check raises being the nuts at this level,
When I have reviewed hands where I have been raised post flop they are the nuts or very strong 95% of the time in such spots. Its only when you get up to 10nl and 25nl that you see such moves as bluffs or semi bluffs a little more often.
We aren't getting anywhere near the right odds to call with at best 8 outs, two of which complete the flush and an Ace likely isn't an out and just fills his boat.
I don't think betting the flop here is wrong, we don't want to give him free cards but personally I would have bet half pot on the turn so as not to inflate the pot too much with a 1pair hand.
Click to expand...

I hear you fig. I see exactly what your saying. Turn sizing could have been way smaller on my behalf . I dont like making small bets in general because if they reraise me,i know its for real if my bet is already pretty big. Sometimes if you bet smaller, you see some players who interpret this as weakness and decide to 3bet just cause they think you dont have much and our bet looks weak.

Over all though thnaks for the reply. Mental notes saved.


Mr Sandbag said:
We semi-bluff to get folds, not to extract value. Just because we flop equity doesn't mean we should be betting. "Getting more value if we hit" implies that we are value betting, and we can't value bet if our opponent calls with hands that have more equity than ours.

Yes, he could have totally missed, but it's likely he caught some piece of it in the form of pairs, two pair or draws and isn't going to fold, so trying to get the smaller percentage of his range to fold is a mistake.

Plus, because of the board texture, there aren't many good barrel cards for us when you think about his calling range. A bunch of over cards complete draws or improve his hand in some way.

I would rather cbet a 972 rainbow flop with JTo. It's a lot less likely that our opponent connected, we are drawing to a hand that will actually get paid if we do get called, and there are good barrel cards for us.

I'm not saying your cbet there is terribad or anything and I'm not always checking, but it's def something to consider.
Click to expand...


Will be considering yea. Thanks for the breakdown. It is a 50-50% situation whether we are gonna c bet here or not and i see what you mean. Board does connect to a whole bunch of stuff so it is risky business.

Thanks Mr. Sandbag.
 
Months come to an end. I didnt post any hands or anything like that in the thread because i was too busy losing.

I started off playing solid 2NL and am up 20BI's for the month.

^^^^^ This was great news. I was playing well. I was focused and i had a Goal. Moving up through the limits slowly and steadily.


The bad part was that i decided to go play some slot machines with 5$ one night when i was a bit tired of grinding and i won around100$ on the first day and then i played the next day and won another 250$. Suddenly my roll was like 400$ and i was all over the place. I was playing at first 5NL,then 10NLL, then i did a little shottaking AND PLAYED LIKE 5k HANDS AT 25nl.😱


Anyways heres everything i have for cash games for the month of october. Im in the red but i had lots of fun.

I played a gazillion tournaments and didnt win any but ran good in a few. Lost the money in other tournaments .

All in all it was a month full of poker but the end result didnt leave any big money in my pocket.

Its not like a lost a fortune either .


Heres what i have fellas.


Enjoy.


2NL (everything this month)

2NL stats

2NL graph


5NL( everything this month)

5NLgraph



10NL ( everything this month)


10NL graph
and 25NL (everything this month)

25NLgraph
 
As you can see through this chart, my stats(gameplay) is pretty similiar throughout the stakes and this is just proof that the games get harder the higher you play.

I can honestly say i can crush 2NL but thats as far as it goes . anything above that i cant beat consitently.

Im cool with that though as im enjoying tournaments more lately. Not saying that i dont love my cash games but it seems as though the competition has gotten MUCHHHHHHHHHHH harder lately and everyones doing their homework. What i mean with this is that there is no "easy" money to be made in my opinion.


At least not for me grinding out cash games.


Gonna be playing my tourneaments mixed up with a little low stakes cash games next month and will be posting any interesting hands,results,etc that i may come across. till then peace brothers.🙂
 

Attachments

  • total monthly stats.JPG
    total monthly stats.JPG
    48.1 KB · Views: 105
check graphs at the end of previous page if interested in results.
 
but this is zoom right so I mean tiny samples (I mean the 25NL at zoom is only a 4 hour session) and when you consider zoom generally has lower winrates anyhow (so potential for bigger swings) I'm sure with some small adjustments you would certainly be able to turn around the 5NL grind.

Crazy run on the slots to boost you up to being able to take shots at 10 and 25 though lol.
 
BluffMeAllIn said:
but this is zoom right so I mean tiny samples (I mean the 25NL at zoom is only a 4 hour session) and when you consider zoom generally has lower winrates anyhow (so potential for bigger swings) I'm sure with some small adjustments you would certainly be able to turn around the 5NL grind.

Crazy run on the slots to boost you up to being able to take shots at 10 and 25 though lol.
Click to expand...


yea man, i know the sample is small but after losing the hundo at 25NL, my roll couldnt take the hits to up the sample. Look at 2NL though. Up 20 buy ins in 10k hands. wnet through the entire limit in 2 sessions. lol.

Played the sparta slot machines and i swear to god, i thought the machine was broken. payed me a 180$ win on a 50 cent spin. Then payed me like a couple 40$ wins and a 100 dollar win. roll went from like 50 to 400 in less than 30 minutes of slotting(lol).


Anyways the bad news isthat i lost the slot money playing poker(go figure). Fun times though.😛
 
Aces2w1n said:
lol got excited for a moment thought you were going to grind 🙂
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LOL, degens gonna degen.😛 at least i thought i was.
 
vinylspiros said:
just went through the thread and found the best post in it.

What the hell happened to the good old days. (this is last year weare talking about).

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...damicros-6max-thread-236428/post-2307579.html

Do i suddenly suck?
Click to expand...
Nah ftp is just super fishy soft compared to stars lol, not sure what the rush player pools even are like these days though during peak hours. i know during late night ET there are often only 40ish people on the 2nl tables and you don't even get the true rushness when 4 tabling cause it's often having to wait for people on tables. I think the most I seen at any limit recently was like 100 sitters in the 10Nl rush games, but I'm most often on in very slow hours for most sites anyhow.

Also deep down you know you should have stuck with 5NL (maybe 10Nl at the most) even with those slot wins 😛 lol, but we have all (or many of us anyhow) been there done that haha.
 
BluffMeAllIn said:
Nah ftp is just super fishy soft compared to stars lol, not sure what the rush player pools even are like these days though during peak hours. i know during late night ET there are often only 40ish people on the 2nl tables and you don't even get the true rushness when 4 tabling cause it's often having to wait for people on tables. I think the most I seen at any limit recently was like 100 sitters in the 10Nl rush games, but I'm most often on in very slow hours for most sites anyhow.

Also deep down you know you should have stuck with 5NL (maybe 10Nl at the most) even with those slot wins 😛 lol, but we have all (or many of us anyhow) been there done that haha.
Click to expand...

^^^
True true. Totally right. I knew when i had the 4 Hundo that i should have just stuck to 10NL and grinded it out till it dropped to like 250 and then thought about what i was gonna do next.

You see, the thing is that when i have 400$ on my account that was literally given to me for free,i thought lemme do some 25$NL shot taking nd see where it goes. If i ran hot at first,i would think im gods gift to poker. But it didnt and then i started randomly playing any type of tourney you can imagine.

And trust me. I wasnt playing tight cause i really wasnt too worried about the results since the money wasnt mine.(i mean it was but it didnt feel like it was)🙂


Ive noticed that the more money i have on a site,the more spewy i become.

Gotta bet myself a copy of the mental game of poker ASAP.

thnaks for replying bluff.🙂
 
The mental game are good books, have both but only read the first one a while back and I'm sure I could do to revisit it and continue with the 2nd book.

These days though just trying to take in some books I have on cash games since have been attempting to switch my own game to cash, been crushing 2nl and just move to 5nl this week and got crushed but it somewhat feels like all my opponents are on heaters in the few 5nl sessions I played and the fact that I need to make some adjustments as stacked off too light in some spots.

yeah sometimes when the money comes almost like a gift its so easy to feel like just taking the shots and gambling it up because we think about the potential of what it could turn into if things go well vs the 0 it could become when it doesn't until its too late.

I also read dusty's book "treat poker like a business" a month or so ago and thought it was great as well just in regards to taking a more serious approach to the grind.

GL on the grind when you get back at it, or are continuing to be at it .... May we both be battling 100NL this time next year 😀 .... **** no i don't wanna wake up from my dream **** :rofl:
 
BluffMeAllIn said:
The mental game are good books, have both but only read the first one a while back and I'm sure I could do to revisit it and continue with the 2nd book.

These days though just trying to take in some books I have on cash games since have been attempting to switch my own game to cash, been crushing 2nl and just move to 5nl this week and got crushed but it somewhat feels like all my opponents are on heaters in the few 5nl sessions I played and the fact that I need to make some adjustments as stacked off too light in some spots.

yeah sometimes when the money comes almost like a gift its so easy to feel like just taking the shots and gambling it up because we think about the potential of what it could turn into if things go well vs the 0 it could become when it doesn't until its too late.

I also read dusty's book "treat poker like a business" a month or so ago and thought it was great as well just in regards to taking a more serious approach to the grind.

GL on the grind when you get back at it, or are continuing to be at it .... May we both be battling 100NL this time next year 😀 .... **** no i don't wanna wake up from my dream **** :rofl:
Click to expand...



^^^AMEN brother.🙂🙂🙂🙂 ....... AMEN.
 
You've got some weird looking graphs there buddy especially the 5nl. If your blue line is that low you have to be stacking off too light. That is supported by your dollars won at showdown which is low.
 
If I remember correctly, your financial means are way beyond your poker BR, so is there anything stopping you from just putting in some volume at 5nl or 10nl or both and just actually getting more experience at those stakes? Obviously 2NL will be softer but it's not like anyone is grinding a living at 10nl or anything (I think?).

I don't really know what your goals are, so obv no pressure or anything, but it just seems silly to me to equate like a 10k hand sample at any given level as being entirely indicative of your general performance. If you want to win, you just need more experience at the next stake up. Shotting 25NL probably doesn't make sense because I think it will be too different from 2NL, but 5 or 10 seem fine.

Anywho, just some random thoughts coming from my brain in its fried state post-session. 🙂
 
Scourrge said:
If I remember correctly, your financial means are way beyond your poker BR, so is there anything stopping you from just putting in some volume at 5nl or 10nl or both and just actually getting more experience at those stakes? Obviously 2NL will be softer but it's not like anyone is grinding a living at 10nl or anything (I think?).

I don't really know what your goals are, so obv no pressure or anything, but it just seems silly to me to equate like a 10k hand sample at any given level as being entirely indicative of your general performance. If you want to win, you just need more experience at the next stake up. Shotting 25NL probably doesn't make sense because I think it will be too different from 2NL, but 5 or 10 seem fine.

Anywho, just some random thoughts coming from my brain in its fried state post-session. 🙂
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Thanks for posting scourge. Your thoughts are more than welcome and appreciated.Even the random ones.😛

Come to think of it. Im probably gonna grind 5NL and maybe even 10NL this november and put like 100K hands in volumewise 4tabling zoom to see what the results look like over a bigger sample.

The important part is to remain cool and not spew . Gonna think about it and will get back here if and when i decide to begin.

Thanks for the reply.


On a sidenote, It really feels like the games have gotten a lot harder lately. (YES even at 5NL).

Im not saying its like 100NL or anything. It just really seams like its hard to extract money from people anymore.

In a way i feel like people are playing NLHE like It's PLO. Meaning they are only gonna pay you with the nuts.

Anyone else get this feeling? Like ,for example, a couple of years ago it would be easier to get someone to pay you a pot sized bet on the river with second pair( if they had second pair), if you took a line similiar to :

raise(pre),,, C-bet flop, check turn and Pot river.(assuming youve hit TPTK on flop)

Now nobody is gonna pay you unless they have 2P or a set or TPTK.

eveyones getting good. And if everyones good ,wheres the money gonna come from?

these are just some of my random thoughts.
 
Vinny the cash tables arent bad plenty of fish about including me 🙂

Perhaps make it fun and try and race your bankroll against mine n volumne
 
This guys a mega whale/badd aggro ruunning 38/33/10 over 40 hands and has like 20% 3 bet.

Its gotta be rigged man. Guy gets it in with jacks pre and im like 240 bb deep. and im playing like a nit too. wtf. havent been this pissed off in ages for some reason. switched it off.


PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

Button ($2.58)
Hero (SB) ($22.46)
BB ($39.55)
UTG ($18.53)
MP ($10.72)
CO ($18.33)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A
diamond.gif
, A
spade.gif

3 folds, Button raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.15, BB raises to $1.15, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.65, BB raises to $39.55 (All-In), Hero calls $18.81 (All-In)

Flop: ($45.12) 10
club.gif
, J
club.gif
, 8
spade.gif
(2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($45.12) 3
diamond.gif
(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($45.12) 6
spade.gif
(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $45.12 | Rake: $1.50

Results below:
Hero had A
diamond.gif
, A
spade.gif
(one pair, Aces).
BB had J
spade.gif
, J
diamond.gif
(three of a kind, Jacks).
Outcome: BB won $43.62
 
It's not rigged, and that's probably a standard spot vs him. You're calling him a whale and then annoyed he gets it in with jacks pre? I understand not liking the runout, but you should fist-pump at him gii here.
 
duggs said:
its not rigged it happens
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Scourrge said:
It's not rigged, and that's probably a standard spot vs him. You're calling him a whale and then annoyed he gets it in with jacks pre? I understand not liking the runout, but you should fist-pump at him gii here.
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Thanks guys. Your right. Was glad i managed to get him GII here cause i was like 10000000%%%% sure that he was gonna be 3betting pre so the plan worked out fine except for the runnout.

OH WELL. Another day at the office i guess.lol.



On a side note i have a roll of around 5 hundo or so from winning in the slot machines and making another 130$ in this 11$ turbo bounty sit and go. anyways. played some 25NL today which i havent played in ages and it went well.


So far im up like 4 buy ins which is serious money in comparison to my roll and am gonna put in some volume and see how it goes.
 
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