Would you value bet second pair on the river?

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Nesehorn156

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I had something like QJ on a Q 8 4 2 2 board. I had bet flop and turn and got called both times.


The river paired the 2 and my opponent checked again.


I wasn't sure whether there was enough worse stuff that would actually call another bet, so I checked it back.


Would you go for a thin value bet there?
 
Nesehorn156 said:
I had something like QJ on a Q 8 4 2 2 board. I had bet flop and turn and got called both times.


The river paired the 2 and my opponent checked again.


I wasn't sure whether there was enough worse stuff that would actually call another bet, so I checked it back.


Would you go for a thin value bet there?
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I’d probably check it back too. Once the 2 pairs, it feels like there aren’t many worse hands left that happily call a river bet.
 
Whats the configuration/stakes? Yeah i think this is fine to check back (edited as misread the board)
 
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I probably would of done the same, cause 2 pairs leaves you with the kicker problem.
 
Like2Play2 said:
I probably would of done the same, cause 2 pairs leaves you with the kicker problem.
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You'd already have a 'kicker problem' if there is one . But we need to have more info to discuss this situation with any real depth .Was there a raise or reraise pre flop ? Did a potential flush draw miss 2 streets( one more reason to check) ? How large were the flop and turn wagers , etc ? Personally I'd already be worried about my hand strength if the bets had been decently sized !
 
This is not really a second pair situation. The river card paired the bottom card, but its very unlikely, the opponent have trips based on the previous action. It would pretty much have to be a hand like A2s, K2s or Q2s that flopped a flushdraw and then backed into trips. So the river is essentially a complete brick meaning, that whoever was ahead on the turn is still ahead now.

But it can still be reasonable to check back a hand like QJ, since you might not get called by enough worse hands, if you put in another bet. This depends on the configuration, the bet sizes used on previous streets and the opponent. Against an aggressive opponent you might also avoid going for very thin value to not reopen the betting for him.
 
Nesehorn156 said:
I had something like QJ on a Q 8 4 2 2 board. I had bet flop and turn and got called both times.


The river paired the 2 and my opponent checked again.


I wasn't sure whether there was enough worse stuff that would actually call another bet, so I checked it back.


Would you go for a thin value bet there?
Click to expand...
Yeah I think I would, there's still alot of value and you can still extra from hand like A 8, K 8 or a weak Q
 
Nesehorn156 said:
I had something like QJ on a Q 8 4 2 2 board. I had bet flop and turn and got called both times.


The river paired the 2 and my opponent checked again.


I wasn't sure whether there was enough worse stuff that would actually call another bet, so I checked it back.


Would you go for a thin value bet there?
Click to expand...
Depends of vilain if I saw that he is a call station and call for every thing a little value can be good but if he is a tight player the best is be careful and check back
 
I am soo
Nesehorn156 said:
I had something like QJ on a Q 8 4 2 2 board. I had bet flop and turn and got called both times.


The river paired the 2 and my opponent checked again.


I wasn't sure whether there was enough worse stuff that would actually call another bet, so I checked it back.


Would you go for a thin value bet there?
Click to expand...
You have top pair 3rd best kicker not second pair.
This is a good study spot for building ranges. You do that by asking the following questions.

What 2x hands call the flop? What 2x hands when they make trips checks? What set on the flop flats the turn instead of building a pot?

What position was the player in? Are they going to have Qx hands yes are they going to have pairs yes are they going to have A8 or A4? What other 8x hands can they have? Would they ever think you would bluff on the river?

After you build the villains range you can see there are lots of hands you could get thin value from and the best part could be that your Villain would only check raise better than QX. That is always a green light to go for thin value. That is literally why it is called "Thin" value.

🤔🤓
 
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eetenor said:
After you build the villains range you can see there are lots of hands you could get thin value from and the best part could be that your Villain would only check raise better than QX. That is always a green light to go for thin value. That is literally why it is called "Thin" value.
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But maybe in this case it could also be to thin. Maybe Hero opened UTG, got called by 3 players, bet 60% pot on the flop, only SB defended, but 60% pot on the turn, SB called again, and by the way SB is a tight player. Then this is probably not a spot, where we can go after 3 streets of value with QJ. Maybe the worst hand, we go after 3 streets with, would be AQ or even KK. Its also worth mentioning, that if we are only going after 2 streets of value, its usually better to check back either flop or turn and then bet the river if checked to. Really OP should share the actual hand history, since there is so much important information missing from this writeup.
 
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I probably would bet small for thin value, especially if they’re a recreational player who can call with worse Qx or stubborn 8x. But checking back is totally fine if their river calling range is tight.
 
On the river, a second pair often turns into a hand used for pot control or catching a bluff.Betting a second pair on the river against thinking regulars is a negative-EV play, as they will force you to fold with a raise or call only with a better hand.
 
fundiver199 said:
But maybe in this case it could also be to thin. Maybe Hero opened UTG, got called by 3 players, bet 60% pot on the flop, only SB defended, but 60% pot on the turn, SB called again, and by the way SB is a tight player. Then this is probably not a spot, where we can go after 3 streets of value with QJ. Maybe the worst hand, we go after 3 streets with, would be AQ or even KK. Its also worth mentioning, that if we are only going after 2 streets of value, its usually better to check back either flop or turn and then bet the river if checked to. Really OP should share the actual hand history, since there is so much important information missing from this writeup.
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Good share as always.
That is why I suggested the poster wants to be building ranges. With no direct info in the post there is no way to say what action is best. The poster needs to consider the aspects you pointed out in all possible scenarios to determine the action that would be best.

🤔🤓
 
It's very important to see the player's style of play if a loose player may have connected. I try to prevent those players from playing every hand so I raise my hand all at once. You know what they say if we don't bet we show a certain weakness and they can't surprise you with a receipt and they can take us out of the hand.
 
I’d probably check it back. After the 2 pairs, there aren’t many worse hands likely to call, so taking the showdown value makes sense.
 
Yes, bet small.
River 2 almost never gives him trips, so he's still got tons of worse Qx that called flop+turn. 1/4 to 1/3 pot, fold if he raises.
 
The truth is that I would have done the same thing, we must also see how aggressive the villain is
 
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