Does Hachem have a point or not?

pantin007 · Jul 13, 2009

Snowmobiler said:
I can't see Hachem whining about a style that he can't exploit.

Snow

this makes no sense, no good player complains about a style that he can beat

Snowmobiler · Jul 13, 2009

Crystal Blue said:
In the link provided he is mainly talking about how they are shoving huge amounts that doesn't reflect the current blinds and ante's etc. That in his view it comes across as disrespectful and that they only appear to have one move.

I think his comments arise partly because, as a past ME winner, he sees things in a certain way. If that's the case then bitching and exploiting at the same time is very possible.

For all any of us know, he might have exploited and busted plenty of the kind of players he is talking about. Only he knows for sure.

This is an exploitable style.Catch a fairly hidden hand and bust there ass.

Putting all your chips in alot with low blinds is a very high risk style,doomed for failure often IMO.

Snow

Stick66 · Jul 13, 2009

Crystal Blue said:
For all any of us know, he might have exploited and busted plenty of the kind of players he is talking about. Only he knows for sure.

True. To get to the final 130, chances are that he DID bust some of the players he's ranting about.

He never said he can't beat them. He said it was "disrespectful", which is a matter of opinion and one that I don't understand either.

Snowmobiler · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
this makes no sense, no good player complains about a style that he can beat

Its called advertising.If you want someone to think they have the best of you and you know you have the best of them,advertise it.It makes perfect sense to my warped mind

Snow

pantin007 · Jul 13, 2009

Snowmobiler said:
Its called advertising.If you want someone to think they have the best of you and you know you have the best of them,advertise it.It makes perfect sense to my warped mind

Snow

so telling a donk he is a horrible player is going to make him keep playing his donkish style?

Snowmobiler · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
so telling a donk he is a horrible player is going to make him keep playing his donkish style?

Having your enemy think that you dont like them to push all there chips in on risky hands ,so they will do it,makes sense.

I bow to your experiance and dont intend to press my point.Its just a possibility!Makes sense to me though.

Snow

Crystal Blue · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
this makes no sense, no good player complains about a style that he can beat

Hachem never said he could or couldn''t beat the style. You assume he can't beat it simple because he had an opinion on it.

Ordinarily I might go along with you maybe 70-30 as that's the way it would come across if it wasn't Hachem saying it, and it wasn't the main event he was talking about. Maybe I just read the link differently to how you did.

Stick66 · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
so telling a donk he is a horrible player is going to make him keep playing his donkish style?

No. Making a donk think that his playing style bothers you could make him do it more, thus staying exploitable. Keyword is "could". One theory could be that some players have been known to tighten up when they get moved to a table with a famous pro, let alone a WS champion. He might not want them to stop being donks because of him.

Having said all that, I don't think this is a reverse psychological angle he's shooting. I think he's just tired & grumpy and he found a reporter to spout off to.

GunslingerZ · Jul 13, 2009

Hachem is OUT.

Stu_Ungar · Jul 13, 2009

MrSticker said:
No. Making a donk think that his playing style bothers you could make him do it more, thus staying exploitable. Keyword is "could". One theory could be that some players have been known to tighten up when they get moved to a table with a famous pro, let alone a WS champion. He might not want them to stop being donks because of him.

Having said all that, I don't think this is a reverse psychological angle he's shooting. I think he's just tired & grumpy and he found a reporter to spout off to.

True, but it dosen't exactly do wonders for his sponsorship deals, future possible book deals, future possible paid coaching and pretty much every other money making activity that poker pros do away from the table.

This is why I think that if he were able to beat them, he would just keep quiet.

Snowmobiler · Jul 13, 2009

Stu_Ungar said:
True, but it dosen't exactly do wonders for his sponsorship deals, future possible book deals, future possible paid coaching and pretty much every other money making activity that poker pros do away from the table.

This is why I think that if he were able to beat them, he would just keep quiet.

I dont understand how (With low blinds) putting all your chips in with marginal hands isnt exactly what you want your opponant to do

Snow

pantin007 · Jul 13, 2009

Snowmobiler said:
I dont understand how (With low blinds) putting all your chips in with marginal hands isnt exactly what you want your opponant to do

Snow

[ ] has played against a good hyper aggressive player

we're not talking about donks here

Snowmobiler · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
[ ] has played against a good hyper aggressive player

we're not talking about donks here

[] answered question

Snow

KingCurtis · Jul 13, 2009

wtf is hachem thinking, he sounds just like the newbs on here who complain about people who play bad!? Why would he not want these droolers in the tournament? He would probably pass out playing the rebuy if they still had it..this quote made me tilt so hard! Like why would you be mad at them playing like this and go on to say they should play better since it's a more prestigous mtt...OK well i don;t care how big this tourney is I want as many "idiots" in it as possible sigh

"We're playing for one of the biggest prizes in history and they're getting ... five hundred million blinds in there with second pair," Hachem said

Snowmobiler · Jul 13, 2009

KingCurtis said:
wtf is hachem thinking, he sounds just like the newbs on here who complain about people who play bad!? Why would he not want these droolers in the tournament? He would probably pass out playing the rebuy if they still had it..

Now this makes sense!

Snow

Stu_Ungar · Jul 13, 2009

Snowmobiler said:
I dont understand how (With low blinds) putting all your chips in with marginal hands isnt exactly what you want your opponant to do

Snow

Moaning and complaining about current poker playing trends is not going to entice people into paying for your knowledge or convince sponsors that having their logo on you is a viable expense.

All he does is reduce his own marketing potential.

Would you sponsor the guy who hates the way the game is currently played?

smd173 · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
1 think i forgot to ask, how the hell is playing hyper agressive disrespectful?

Cause it makes poker look like a preflop gamble-a-thon which is the exact opposite of what they are trying to present to lawmakers in order to get the UIGEA overturned.

The ME is supposed to have the best structure on planet Earth and these people are shoving 180 BBs deep preflop.

KingCurtis · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
[ ] has played against a good hyper aggressive player

we're not talking about donks here

couldn't we consider these donks, i can see loose aggressive being profitable if you know how to play it but he said they are putting their stacks in with mid pair, imo thats a donk.

zachvac · Jul 13, 2009

I have a question for Hachem. Does he consider Elky a crazy internet kid? The reason smart hyper-aggro play is profitable is because people play exploitably. If you go back 10 years when you just had to make the nuts and make money it'd be one thing, but people are learning more and more how to fold and that's no longer enough. To counter people who are folding too much you exploit them by taking a bunch of small pots.

Snowmobiler · Jul 13, 2009

Stu_Ungar said:
Moaning and complaining about current poker playing trends is not going to entice people into paying for your knowledge or convince sponsors that having their logo on you is a viable expense.

All he does is reduce his own marketing potential.

Would you sponsor the guy who hates the way the game is currently played?

Wasnt this just 1 interview?How much long term damage to his marketing potential did he do?

Snow

pantin007 · Jul 13, 2009

zachvac said:
I have a question for Hachem. Does he consider Elky a crazy internet kid? The reason smart hyper-aggro play is profitable is because people play exploitably. If you go back 10 years when you just had to make the nuts and make money it'd be one thing, but people are learning more and more how to fold and that's no longer enough. To counter people who are folding too much you exploit them by taking a bunch of small pots.

this

and smd, the ppl we are talking about are not shoving 180bb deep just because they can,

KingCurtis · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
this

and smd, ppl are not shoving 180bb deep with air

so is it safe to say joe is exaggerating a bit?

pantin007 · Jul 13, 2009

KingCurtis said:
so is it safe to say joe is exaggerating a bit?

lol didnt give me time to edit

KingCurtis · Jul 13, 2009

I think hes been on winners tilt ever since he won the ME. The odds of him winning again are insanely against him and I think that is starting to sink in as he plays these crazy players.

Snowmobiler · Jul 13, 2009

pantin007 said:
this

and smd, the ppl we are talking about are not shoving 180bb deep just because they can,

Then WTF is he even talking about?
Are they pushing their stacks around or not?Are they making reasonable bets ?

Snow

Does Hachem have a point or not?

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