Freeroll culture has hurt poker....

A2345Razz

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  • #101
billbaffles said:
Ive decided to never deposit again and am working on building an ACR bankroll using the all the freerolls that are offered. I already did the deposit thing when i first started out and that didnt go so well so i figure if i cannot win money by playing poker and cashing in a freeroll and then going to a micro stakes table and building it up then i shouldnt really be risking the money to play higher stakes or micro anyways because then id lose my own money. I like how freerolls offer me the chance to build a bankroll without having to use my own money and then when i play micros i create rake for the site by competing against other players who may or may not have deposited.

How much have you deposited. Were you expecting to get good at poker for free or for a couple bucks?

Serious questions...
 
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mastahbates

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  • #102
I think there is a stigma still associated with poker; at least in my family circle. I really enjoy poker, I love watching it, I love playing it - and I think I am slightly addicted. My girlfriend sees me playing a lot of poker but she is happy to see me play it because a) I do not have a defined hobby and 2) I have yet to put any money in to. If she sees me putting disposable income (which we never have) into this, she will kick my ass and I am sure my parents will not 100% approve either. If I feel I can become a winning poker player, that is when I will start putting my money in to the game in the and start to attempt to win bigger payouts.
 
Greg Austin

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  • #103
freerolls didnt destroy online poker, super users and the government did. If poker is one of my hobbies and i can play for free why not? its just a hobby. If someone invited me to play basketball and i said i didnt feel like it and the person said 5 bucks that i will beat you and i didnt have to match the bet then id play for the free 5 bucks. We all want the poker boom back but it will never be the same after all the scandals and the laws that govern us to not be able to play at certain rooms. I wont deposit online, i play live at a casino when i have the money and i play at betonline where theres only one table of 200nl at a time and its full of regs, its not like it was back in the poker boom online.
 
Stocky373

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  • #104
Freerolls are great! Especial if i have no money 😃 because when i play for "play money", i have no motivation...and without motivation (money) poker is meaningless
 
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deerhunter29

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  • #105
playing free rolls

they are a bunch of donkeys.
 
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Two6JJ

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  • #106
I think the saying is 'If you smart enough to make a living from poker your smart enough to make a living from something else." The dream of continent hopping high stakes pro make keep some people coming back but for most of us it is just fun with the possibility of making a couple of bucks as well. It's fun to chase but reality tends to kick in for most.
 
BBr3

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  • #107
Freerolls are perfect though for people like me who are too cheap and skeptical about online poker to actually deposit money. Instead of play chips, you get a chance to actually make enough to enter a real money tournament and win some real cash.
I've played freerolls that lasted 6 hours and only rewarded $2 and freerolls that last 3 hours and reward $25.
I've also seen freerolls where so many people re-buy and add-on, that the site actually makes money on them.
 
supernuts25

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  • #108
i guess it just depends on you. weather your wanting it to be just a hobby or your going at it in hopes of being pro someday. i personally like to win money when thats what im using to bet with :).

And for sure i dont think everyone should just jump in and think there going to be a pro or earn a living but that takes time and a ton of skill.But if your playing poker. Earning money at it is what you must be doing to be successful at it.

Whether its a hobby or not.
 
HowS

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  • #109
I have to agree with most of what OP said. I lose to donk hands all the time in these freerolls, it's unreal.
 
MattRyder

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  • #110
A2345Razz said:
... We shouldn't define "success" in poker as being profitable
... It's important for beginners to actually DEPOSIT A DECENT amount of money generally for us to maintain this game. The poker world needs net depositors period to survive.
... THIS IS A HOBBY, and there are costs related to all/most hobbies.


Let me see if I have this straight. You want everybody to "deposit a decent amount of money", but not to want to win money.

emo4.jpg


They should rather want to lose all their money, so they can deposit more, because success in poker should not be defined as being profitable, but rather as having a hobby and helping to support the poker world.

losing-man2.jpg


And this is because the poker world's survival is threatened by the freeroll culture.

freeroll_ticket[1].png


OK, I think I have it now.

michelle-you-got-it-dude.gif
 
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KALUGAJ

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  • #111
I play cash games and trying to participate freeroll tournaments, but for their long duration, which has tired of mad player, all-in on every hand, and the potential winnings 0:10 cent after two hours of play, I play only CC freeroll.
 
monkey23

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  • #112
freerolls are the only way some folks can get into playing for real money...and we are all donkeys compared to negreanu and co.

sure...there lots of fishy/donkey play...whaddya expect in a free game
 
A2345Razz

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  • #113
Let me see if I have this straight. You want everybody to "deposit a decent amount of money", but not to want to win money.


I never said "everybody" needs to do X, so that's a complete strawman.\

Yes, ABSOLUTELY, I expect people in general to DEPOSIT to play real money poker and YES, ABSOLUTELY, I expect many of them to lose their initial deposit/s until they improve.

The fact you even suggest this is an odd concept, basically shows how right my OP was.

Where do you think the money in the poker world comes from if not- at least in part- from new players, taking their lumps and improving playing real money games????

I just can't get my head around the fact some on here think new players should never expect to lose some money while improving/make several initial deposits.....

I just don't know how this mentality began tbh....
 
Sil3ntness

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  • #114
Newer players losing their bankroll should think of it as tuition costs.

They pay the more experienced players by giving up their bankrolls in exchange for valuable poker lessons.
 
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  • #115
I think it's true the play from freerolls bleeds into the real money games a bit and ruins the integrity of the game for some, but it also is one of the best ways to bring new players into the game, and a lot of new players might think the style of play they see is the norm.
 
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  • #116
Agree with most of the concepts discussed here. However, I have actually cashed in the freerolls which allowed my to enter a few micro games and then cashed that into a few bonus games and bingo... I'm at about $25 in ACR. I have not deposited ever in ACR (they keep calling me :0 ). But why deposit when I continue (albeit slowly) to build my stash this way?
 
kiddo7

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  • #117
I disagree about the freeroll culture ruining poker. I think that it actually helps to draw in people that would have never deposited in the first place if not for the freerolls. I found this to be the case for the older generation. I have a few uncles who play poker with play money and after winning like $1 in freerolls they feel the excitement of betting with real money and then they deposit when their freeroll money runs out. I think this was the original idea of having freerolls in the first place. And let me tell you, it's working as intended.
 
billbaffles

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  • #118
There is a lot of different ways to derive a monetary gain from athletics. I think most people figure if you practice enough then I would say that most people are looking to get a college scholarship out of the time and money spent which would be the reward. I would not say that most figure they will some day play professionally but I see poker very similarly. People will play for all kinds of reasons from recreational, way to escape, mind health, pay a few bills, etc. I also disagree that anything has hurt poker, I really see the recent growth of the game publicly as only the beginning of a very long period of the game. Seems like there is always a new name on TV winning the next huge tournament which shows that people can come out of nowhere. It is not always the same small group seen on TV and never anyone else. I also disagree with the use of a collective "we" so that somehow im included in have sold dreams or something. I havent done any of that. I like how freerolls give people a chance to win without having to deposit money. They also give people a reason to log-on and I usually play some cash games while im in a freeroll which generates profits for the site. The freerolls are obviously paid out as promotions from the site's profit which in turn gives someone a chance without a deposit. I know from first hand experience, there are all kinds of things that can go wrong after winning a few bucks from a freeroll. The player might build it up a little but then go on a downswing and lose it all, but at that point, want to play more without having to somehow cash in a massive freeroll and make a deposit. That is just an example of how freerolls actually increase deposits. On the other hand, if a player is good enough to cash in a freeroll, practice bankroll management and be both good enough and lucky enough to never go bust and win thats great and more power to them but most beginners wont have the ability to do that. Also, freerolls are a chance to practice without having to put in much like play money. I think 500 to play .01/.02 is too much. At a .40 minimum buy-in $40 is really enough to have a 1% buy-in as to not risk to much but the concept suggested here is that, beginners should buy in for like 500 bucks and play $1 BB so that i can get rich, and i completely disagree with entire post. It makes no sense to me at all.
 
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NLvillain

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  • #119
chloebrand said:
If that is your belief, that you can not support yourself doing something that you love, you are probably right. I personally believe, that I can, and have been doing so, for the last couple of years.

I'm sorry, but I had to reply...

My thoughts exactly. With all the tools available today, it is much easier to accelerate your game. Attitude and faith is what winning players have.
 
DanielSnrL

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  • #120
Opinion is very relative.What can not be good for you I'm sure It is for many other people. I respect you opinion but I prefer something that uplifits us and not words to the wind.
 
DanielSnrL

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  • #121
billbaffles said:
There is a lot of different ways to derive a monetary gain from athletics. I think most people figure if you practice enough then I would say that most people are looking to get a college scholarship out of the time and money spent which would be the reward. I would not say that most figure they will some day play professionally but I see poker very similarly. People will play for all kinds of reasons from recreational, way to escape, mind health, pay a few bills, etc. I also disagree that anything has hurt poker, I really see the recent growth of the game publicly as only the beginning of a very long period of the game. Seems like there is always a new name on TV winning the next huge tournament which shows that people can come out of nowhere. It is not always the same small group seen on TV and never anyone else. I also disagree with the use of a collective "we" so that somehow im included in have sold dreams or something. I havent done any of that. I like how freerolls give people a chance to win without having to deposit money. They also give people a reason to log-on and I usually play some cash games while im in a freeroll which generates profits for the site. The freerolls are obviously paid out as promotions from the site's profit which in turn gives someone a chance without a deposit. I know from first hand experience, there are all kinds of things that can go wrong after winning a few bucks from a freeroll. The player might build it up a little but then go on a downswing and lose it all, but at that point, want to play more without having to somehow cash in a massive freeroll and make a deposit. That is just an example of how freerolls actually increase deposits. On the other hand, if a player is good enough to cash in a freeroll, practice bankroll management and be both good enough and lucky enough to never go bust and win thats great and more power to them but most beginners wont have the ability to do that. Also, freerolls are a chance to practice without having to put in much like play money. I think 500 to play .01/.02 is too much. At a .40 minimum buy-in $40 is really enough to have a 1% buy-in as to not risk to much but the concept suggested here is that, beginners should buy in for like 500 bucks and play $1 BB so that i can get rich, and i completely disagree with entire post. It makes no sense to me at all.

I totally agree with you ... for me still just words in the wind
 
skull89

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  • #122
I agree in some aspects, but others not.
I play poker as a hobby since 2007, but i'm competitive too, it's not only fun. But to play decently, with people who knows at least the basic theories you must deposit and play in higher buy ins.
Freerolls have the objective to present the game for the begginners.
There is another problem too, at least here in brazil. The politic and economic crisis here in our country turn a simple U$50,00 deposit in a nigthmare. Our money have been devalued day after day and the recreative players is suffering to deposit nowadays. But, os course, this is he vision of a not develeped country.
Anyway. The pros and counters of freerolls depends too much with the context you lare living.
 
quick

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  • #123
Sil3ntness said:
Yeah I view freerolls as a form of rakeback to the depositors, but yet on ACR/BCP (Winning Poker Network) they graciously give out so much free money.

Seriously they gave me $20 just for clicking accept on an email they sent me. BCP & ACR sent me two different emails saying click here for a free $5 deposit. So total of $20. Combine that with CardsChat freerolls, micro stake cash games, and the $10 On Demand freeroll (which I binked 1st place *toot my own horn*) I was gifted over $50 for not depositing a single dime. That's a really good deal for a customer. I'm surprised Winning Poker Network is able to give out so much free money when I haven't deposited a dime.

I guess they must have a ton of depositors and the rake must be really good from other players...

This is so true. ACR and Bovada have given me small amounts of free money through these emails. Probably for the same reason casinos give past players "free" money to come back. Means you'll come sit at a table and play a bit with other players who are playing with their own money or some other player's lost money thus generating rake for the site. If you accept the "free" money and lose it back, the site gets their money back and gets rake off that money (since other players have to match your bets to play).

As for whether or not freerolls hurt or help the poker economy, I think in today's climate post Black Friday and with online poker only slowly starting to come back in US it probably helps it. It can be a pain to deposit in the US and so a free roll gets someone into the game. Whether they saw some poker on ESPN, went to a casino, or used to play, suddenly they too have a shot at the dream again. Or just some free chance to win something. Anything to bring players through the doors, virtual or otherwise.

Is it wrong to sell long shot dreams to potential poker players through free rolls and long shot satellites? I don't think so. I mean televangelists sell tickets to heaven if you pay them enough right? I get what OP means about this coming across as shady and scummy, but at least with poker you have a chance to get what's advertised. And esp with free rolls, who cares if players flock to play with dreams of making it big? Cost them nothing.
 
dgospa

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  • #124
I dont agree with you! Well players are not guilty for that. Maybe someonme dont have or dont want to deposit so freerolls are good way to earn some money for free.. poker sites want to have more players so they offer freerolls. I love them(who dont). Cheers!
 
NKGB13

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  • #125
Well, nice line of thought although I don't agree 100%, however yes, I play poker just for fun, have deposited some money, lost it all but still have fun with it! And I play freerolls because they don't make me feel bad when I loose and when I win, I can play other games and if I loose, well, I started with 0 anyway..

Poker for me is Fun! If I don't earn money from it, np, I had fun anyway. If I start winning, then well, I'm a happy bastard! ehehehe
 
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