* January's Juxtaposed Pokahz Chat *

bw07507 · Jan 7, 2009

and this is why i suck at 200NL. His line just makes absolutey no sense here other than he his turning a hand like 88 into a bluff when he thinks i hit the Q. Like wtf? Ive had the nuts ch/ch turn ch/r river like 3 times on me today

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP: $30 (15 bb)
Hero (CO): $210.45 (105.2 bb)
BTN: $491.65 (245.8 bb)
SB: $201 (100.5 bb)
BB: $317 (158.5 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with A

8

MP folds, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, BB calls $4

Flop: ($13) 4

5

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB calls $8

Turn: ($29) 2

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($29) Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $14, BB raises to $54, Hero raises to $196.45 and is all-in, BB calls $142.45

Results: $421.90 pot ($2 rake)
Hero showed A

8

(a pair of Fives) and lost (-$210.45 net)
BB showed 2

2

(a full house, Twos full of Fives) and won $419.90 ($209.45 net)

c9h13no3 · Jan 7, 2009

That hand right there is why I'm not making stupid amounts of money playing poker. I spew like a garden hose postflop soooo often, especially in big pots. I'm like "gee, no one would ever play the nuts like that unless they're an idiot". And yes, they are idiots. But they also have my money

WVHillbilly · Jan 7, 2009

c9h13no3 said:
That hand right there is why I'm not making stupid amounts of money playing poker. I spew like a garden hose postflop soooo often, especially in big pots. I'm like "gee, no one would ever play the nuts like that unless they're an idiot". And yes, they are idiots. But they also have my money

x2!

bw07507 · Jan 7, 2009

I've also concluded many times b4 that river ch/r is a bluff about 0.00000001% of the time but for some reason i continue to pay them off.

Jurn8 · Jan 7, 2009

could somebody explain to me why BW is stacking off there I dont get why people stack off with nothing? Is this a tactic or what.

Sorry for being thick but im just curious and dont think id stack off on the river with nothing but maybe thats where im going wrong.

Chris_TC · Jan 7, 2009

bw07507 said:
His line just makes absolutey no sense here other than he his turning a hand like 88 into a bluff when he thinks i hit the Q. Like wtf?

Hmmm, I think it makes perfect sense actually. On the turn he hopes you're going to fire again so he can check-raise. When you check back he knows you have air just about every time as you'd probably even bet 66 again.
So when the Queen hits, he hopes you're either going to bluff it or you've hit it and will bet it for value. Either way, he makes more money by check-raising than by betting out. I'd usually play his hand the same way.

BelgoSuisse · Jan 7, 2009

Jurn8 said:
could somebody explain to me why BW is stacking off there I dont get why people stack off with nothing? Is this a tactic or what.

Sorry for being thick but im just curious and dont think id stack off on the river with nothing but maybe thats where im going wrong.

BW thinks villain has a hand that is marginally better than his ace high but that is not strong enough to play for stacks, so he shoves to get villain to fold a small pocket pair or something like that.

it's spewy because people don't CR bluff on the river in tiny pots, but it's the rational behind the shove.

BelgoSuisse · Jan 7, 2009

Chris_TC said:
Hmmm, I think it makes perfect sense actually. On the turn he hopes you're going to fire again so he can check-raise. When you check back he knows you have air just about every time as you'd probably even bet 66 again.
So when the Queen hits, he hopes you're either going to bluff it or you've hit it and will bet it for value. Either way, he makes more money by check-raising than by betting out. I'd usually play his hand the same way.

:adore:

becomingpoker · Jan 7, 2009

Jurn8 said:
could somebody explain to me why BW is stacking off there I dont get why people stack off with nothing? Is this a tactic or what.

Sorry for being thick but im just curious and dont think id stack off on the river with nothing but maybe thats where im going wrong.

BW prolly figured A high was as good as villains hand there. It's funny watching hands and plays as the stakes get higher. Nobody ever seems to trust BIG moves like in the hand referenced. But there is also plenty of reason to not trust this move.

I think at 200NL+ is where people start to have the balls to shove bluff on the turn or river. But, there are times where making the "Hero" call like BW did will cost you your stack, other times it will gain you one. I think you need to tread very caustiosly when people make moves like this.

I have personally seen (not played but watched at my friends house) many 1000NL games where this exact type of hand went down but the result would've been BW raking in the pot.

I don't know if I could make the same call BW did but I admire the call either way!

*Never mind, just realized BW made the shove not the call. Either way I still like it!

Jurn8 · Jan 7, 2009

becomingpoker said:
BW prolly figured A high was as good as villains hand there. It's funny watching hands and plays as the stakes get higher. Nobody ever seems to trust BIG moves like in the hand referenced. But there is also plenty of reason to not trust this move.

I think at 200NL+ is where people start to have the balls to shove bluff on the turn or river. But, there are times where making the "Hero" call like BW did will cost you your stack, other times it will gain you one. I think you need to tread very caustiosly when people make moves like this.

I have personally seen (not played but watched at my friends house) many 1000NL games where this exact type of hand went down but the result would've been BW raking in the pot.

I don't know if I could make the same call BW did but I admire the call either way!

It must take some balls tbh , I wouldnt have the balls to shove in a stack with A high.

I see the tactic now but not sure if I could risk a whole stack with just A high.

Jurn8 · Jan 7, 2009

Also are any CC'ers going for Supernova Elite this year??

feitr · Jan 7, 2009

Oh dear, you guys absolutely miss the point of the hand. BW shoves because he thinks villain is bluff raising him on the river because 44 and 22 or 56 or A5 are the only hands that really make sense for villain to have, and since BW's line is very often a bluff, BW figures villain knows this and might be bluff raising.

Tho tbh, 88 NEVER turns itself into a bluff there on the river and frankly that is a snap call (initial bet) with 66/77/88 etc by villain on the river so i really really really hate the river shove. Even 33 isn't going to bluff raise here.

Not to mention that villain's line is really polarized towards the nuts (and this is a standard line for the nuts on this board) or air, and there are just so few air hands that villain would turn into a bluff on the river (like 67 and nothing else).

Monoxide · Jan 7, 2009

Jurn8 said:
Also are any CC'ers going for Supernova Elite this year??

If I play like all year, SNE is possible, I can get 80-100k VPP a month. I just need to have even less of a social life then I do now, lots of 10 hour play days. Though realistically I will probably end up with 600-700k vpps.

feitr · Jan 7, 2009

Chris_TC said:
Well, the quick moving up (or rather the slow moving down) is also what's broken my neck twice so I made sure to be more disciplined this time. As mentioned before, I never played deeper than 150BB, and I would begin with an 11/8 rule, meaning I'd move up with 11 buy-ins and move down with 8. I actually respected the moving down rule this time, as much as it sucks.

As the limits got higher, I adjusted those rules, for moving to $2/$4 I used a 15/11 rule, and for $5/$10 I'm using an 18/14 rule. Now my hope is that I can cement my roll and not have to be worried about moving down. I'm not going to move up any further, so hopefully I'll end up overrolled for 1K and stay there.

I might post some HA if something nasty comes up. Ran pretty good yesterday, so don't have any difficult spots yet.

wow i'd be careful. I have a friend (10/20) who made $90k in December, and he has had a day where he has dropped more buy ins at 5/10 than you would start with. Leatherass dropped 40 buy ins one month at 5/10, etc. It is just so easy to lose 10 buy ins. And it is hard to respect the drop down rule when you might have to drop down after a standard bad 1 hr (unless i'm the only one who can lose 4 buy ins in an hour) but obviously it is up to you. Playing nl400 with a $6000 roll just seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

And as sad as it is, this is my best day ever.

Irexes · Jan 7, 2009

nice work feit.

Since the AA never stacking preflop comment I've nailed two AA aipf v KK that have held. Good mojo imo.

switch0723 · Jan 7, 2009

BelgoSuisse said:
:hmmmm2:

How would you get 17 outs against top set and how would top set have now redraw???? Need example before head explodes...

in omaha, hero holds J,T,7,2 rainbow, villain 9,9,2,3 rainbow, flop 8,9,A is a coinflip. Literally so 50/50 you could fairly use it instead of flipping a coin. By top set having no redraw, i meant it has no backdoor flush/straight, only FH outs

BelgoSuisse · Jan 7, 2009

switch0723 said:
in omaha, hero holds J,T,7,2 rainbow, villain 9,9,2,3 rainbow, flop 8,9,A is a coinflip. Literally so 50/50 you could fairly use it instead of flipping a coin. By top set having no redraw, i meant it has no backdoor flush/straight, only FH outs

thx.

guess this is why i don't play omaha.

blankoblanco · Jan 7, 2009

bw07507 said:
and this is why i suck at 200NL. His line just makes absolutey no sense here other than he his turning a hand like 88 into a bluff when he thinks i hit the Q. Like wtf? Ive had the nuts ch/ch turn ch/r river like 3 times on me today

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP: $30 (15 bb)
Hero (CO): $210.45 (105.2 bb)
BTN: $491.65 (245.8 bb)
SB: $201 (100.5 bb)
BB: $317 (158.5 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with A

8

MP folds, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, BB calls $4

Flop: ($13) 4

5

5

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB calls $8

Turn: ($29) 2

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($29) Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $14, BB raises to $54, Hero raises to $196.45 and is all-in, BB calls $142.45

Results: $421.90 pot ($2 rake)
Hero showed A

8

(a pair of Fives) and lost (-$210.45 net)
BB showed 2

2

(a full house, Twos full of Fives) and won $419.90 ($209.45 net)

what is he supposed to expect you to be able to call with on the river that you're not value-betting yourself? A-high not likely. A2, 33, or 4x that didn't bet turn MIGHT call. if you have an overpair to the board you would have bet turn generally, if you didn't for some reason, you probably still v-bet river, Q valuebets river. and all these times he actually has a chance at getting you to call the raise since he reps such a narrow range

Jurn8 · Jan 7, 2009

how many hands roughly would you need to play at 50NL to achieve supernova and supernova elite?

BelgoSuisse · Jan 7, 2009

Jurn8 said:
how many hands roughly would you need to play at 50NL to achieve supernova and supernova elite?

a bit over 400k for supernova. going for elite at 50nl is just not possible.

switch0723 · Jan 7, 2009

ye omaha is so messed up. if you have j,t,6s,7s on a 8s,9s,2d board, your something like a 73% fav against 9,9,2,3, yet your a 25% dog or something against 7d,9d,Ts,Js. Top pair > top Set ldo

Chris_TC · Jan 7, 2009

c9h13no3 said:
Should be okay in this thread, as only people who read it know about that "other forum".

What other forum? I thought CC was The One?

feitr said:
And it is hard to respect the drop down rule when you might have to drop down after a standard bad 1 hr (unless i'm the only one who can lose 4 buy ins in an hour) but obviously it is up to you.

Well, it only sucks if that bad 1 hour happens right after moving up (happened to me after moving up to NL200). But you just gotta suck it up and move down right away according to the rule. It's not a sure-fire way not to go broke, but nothing in Poker is 100% safe.

Jurn8 · Jan 7, 2009

BelgoSuisse said:
a bit over 400k for supernova. going for elite at 50nl is just not possible.

how many for elite at 100nl

zachvac · Jan 7, 2009

Jurn8 said:
It must take some balls tbh , I wouldnt have the balls to shove in a stack with A high.

I see the tactic now but not sure if I could risk a whole stack with just A high.

It shouldn't be about balls, it should be about taking the max ev play. Personally I'm such a nit and play FR so that not many people are making crazy river bluff raises and such but there are definitely spots where getting your stack in without a pair is +ev just because they fold so much of their range. That's a big point of BRM too, you shouldn't feel really bad losing a stack unless you play bad. If you make a marginally +ev decision to stack with air and they have top of their range and call, you just have to shrug that off (or post in HA to make sure you're right about it being a cooler and just not spew) and keep playing.

Jurn8 said:
Also are any CC'ers going for Supernova Elite this year??

Me. Bit behind but now that I'm back at 200nl I should be on pace for the 100k vpp month pretty soon.

switch0723 said:
in omaha, hero holds J,T,7,2 rainbow, villain 9,9,2,3 rainbow, flop 8,9,A is a coinflip. Literally so 50/50 you could fairly use it instead of flipping a coin. By top set having no redraw, i meant it has no backdoor flush/straight, only FH outs

ok so I'm counting outs, and can't for the life of me come up with 17.

JT72 on A98 board you have:

4 Q's
4 7's
4 6's

Where are the other 5?

Also who votes we send proposal to the NFL?

"ok away team, which one do you pick, JT72r or 9932r with A98 board?"

Jagsti · Jan 7, 2009

Seriously, clearing bonuses on Stars, is the f'king gayest, Rigedddiest f'kin thing ever that tilts me so much adgfg\jh\j\hgx\jsh\jshb\ja\jdhbsjh\aksjdajsdhb\sjxbnznbcvzvcvzngcvzgcvzhgcvzgcvzghcvzhgcvzhgcvzhgcvz\ncvznbcvcznbcvznbcvznbcvznbcvxvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvDGfhGjhgsajhas

*** January's Juxtaposed Pokahz Chat ***

bw07507

Legend

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK

WVHillbilly

Legend

bw07507

Legend

Jurn8

Legend

Chris_TC

Cardschat Elite

BelgoSuisse

Legend

BelgoSuisse

Legend

becomingpoker

Rock Star

Jurn8

Legend

Jurn8

Legend

feitr

Legend

Monoxide

Cardschat Elite

feitr

Legend

Attachments

Irexes

Legend

switch0723

Cardschat Elite

BelgoSuisse

Legend

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode

Jurn8

Legend

BelgoSuisse

Legend

switch0723

Cardschat Elite

Chris_TC

Cardschat Elite

Jurn8

Legend

zachvac

Legend

Jagsti

I'm sweet enough!

About CardsChat

Our Community

Our Site

* January's Juxtaposed Pokahz Chat *