*** January's Juxtaposed Pokahz Chat ***

THIS
IS GETTING
SO FKING
RIDICULOUS

Jagsti said:

^^^^ this. Enty just take a break from cash games m8. Better still give poker a break for a week or so. If you need a poker fix, play some $1 sng's or some other shit thats not gonna have much of an affect on your roll.

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^^^^ so much this.

If I've learned anything in the last 6 months it's that taking a break when needed is often the best +EV play you can make BY FAR. And take as long as you need, be it a day or two or even a few weeks in my case.


Also agree with the go play some cheap poker and don't care about the result..it's therapeutic. I either like to go play like a maniac at $2 nl or go play a cheap omaha table.

combuboom said:

ya i'm playing double or nothings atm. the way i'm running i don't rly want to touch cash, and i need to clear this bonus in 3 days

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I'm playing those as well ($10). I've cashed in 4 out of 4 since I started wearing my Pokerstars beanie (10 cashes out of the last 11 games, so I'm on an unsustainable hot streak... but still fun).

I've been noticing more euber-tight players, so I've been loosening up to compensate, which has been more fun. I like having ~$7k on the bubble, and shoving every hand. The one or two with $2k~$3k don't want to call because they're waiting for the shorties bust. And I especially like it when, after I've shoved PF awhile, a nit finally limps in EP (to call my inevitable shove) and I just fold to it. I imagine him being mad at me, and it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

I agree with loosening up early in those because people are pussies who think they can just nit it up to the end but late when you have chips even if you are the chip leader by far I'm pretty sure shoving is way -ev.

zachvac said:

I agree with loosening up early in those because people are pussies who think they can just nit it up to the end but late when you have chips even if you are the chip leader by far I'm pretty sure shoving is way -ev.

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I played 120 of the $20 ones and even early people will not wimp out. They will show you some absolute crap. Just play nit fold poker and try and find the right spots to steal since thats 80% of what you'll be doing to survive near the bubble.

It's all about ICM, take good note of other stacks. But even then it's not that easy to cash.

eNTy said:

I played 120 of the $20 ones and even early people will not wimp out. They will show you some absolute crap. Just play nit fold poker and try and find the right spots to steal since thats 80% of what you'll be doing to survive near the bubble.

It's all about ICM, take good note of other stacks. But even then it's not that easy to cash.

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Well obviously early on is villain-dependent and if they're playing really loose then just nit it up. But moreso I was trying to say that late regardless of chip stack if you have a huge stack you should not be getting it into the middle. It could get to the point where you don't even want to get AA in because doubling up barely increases your odds of cashing (which = winning) much at all while having your stack lose however much the guy you're stacking against could hurt it quite a bit, and more than 4x the good a win would do. So yeah when you get a huge stack I think you just want to fold. If you can fold to the money, just do. No point in tangling with smaller stacks and ending up having to actually get money in to cash.

Depends on the size of the stacks.
If you're at 7k like SP said, there's no use in folding to a shove from say a 500 stack since the blinds are usually 125/250+ante and higher on the bubble.

So folding AA would be ridic in that spot.
You can't just rely on others taking him out cause if everyone is scared to take them out they just grow in stacksize.
That's the problem with having a medium stack on bubble. Shortstacks can double up or survive with stealing while you may not get a playable hand or a steal opportunity and land yourself as the shortstack.

Biggest pot, although it really isn't that big But not bad for low stakes!

--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------
Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
Hero (BB): $323.95 (162 bb)
SB: $355.92 (178 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is BB with A♥ K♦
SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $18, SB calls $14
Flop: ($36) K♣ 5♠ 3♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $30, SB calls $30
Turn: ($96) K♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $80, SB calls $80
River: ($256) 8♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $195.95 and is all-in, SB calls $195.95
Results:[spoil] $647.90 pot ($0.50 rake)
[/spoil]

Kinda weird session - lost 250bb pot with top 2 vs set and lost to a 5 outer all in on the turn for full stacks, but overall ran really quite well.

Month thus far - 12k hands are nl100 so about 5k at nl200.

zachvac said:

I agree with loosening up early in those because people are pussies who think they can just nit it up to the end but late when you have chips even if you are the chip leader by far I'm pretty sure shoving is way -ev.

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I'm just trying to bust them out. In those situations there's typically one big chip leader (me), a couple people who can fold to the money, and three short stacks who are just trying to outlast the other short stacks. By now only the nits are left, and they get nittier.

I steal the $75/$150 blinds over and over again by putting in just $350. $100/$200 blinds get stolen for $450. I'll stop stealing if they fight back, but people rarely fight back. It's *really* nitty on the bubble, and I accumulate a lot of chips.

Once I am pretty sure that I can fold my way to the money if I lose an all-in to the 2nd place dude (leaving me with $3,500 or so chips) I'll start shoving.

It's -EV for the two people with decent stacks to call me, even if they have A/A, because the chances of them folding to the money are greater than their chances of their A/A holding to a random hand. I mean, I expect them to call with K/K and A/A, and maaaybe Q/Q.

That leaves me with the short stacks, who don't affect me much if they call. My shoves tend to take the blinds and antes at a rate *greater* than I lose when they call and double up.

I'm fine with a shorty calling my shove when I'm only ~40%. I'll be the hero when it's cheap. And if it starts hurting my stack I'll stop.

I can totally see how it'd be -EV to keep shoving because doubling up the guy in 2nd puts me in 2nd, but even then it would take a really cold run to not cash. At that point I'd just nit it up because the shorties will each have to double up few times each before I start to feel any pressure, and that's not likely to happen.

I'm also *not* letting people get more chips by stealing from each other. Again, I usually accumulate chips by shoving because everyone is trying to outlast each other. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if my shoves encourage them to play tighter because they're figure someone else will call the maniac and possibly get sucked out on.

Zach is definitely right about it being -EV if one of the people with $3k in chips is willing to call with with a wider range than they should. The wider their range, the worse my EV (and theirs).

I could be way off in my thinking. But because of the narrowness of people's ranges at that point, if it is -EV it's not by much. And believe me, if I sensed danger I'd stop. And with me opening (bluff or not) I am about pot committed to call any shorty who decides to shove anyway. So really it's just the "should fold every hand" people who I have to worry about.

Edit: You need to win ~55% of these tournaments to stay in the green (less for turbos), so stacking early in a tournament with A/Ks and Q/Q is usually a bad idea unless your villains range is pretty wide. Those coin flip hands for big stacks are -EV. I'm pretty tight at first, until I lean a little bit about the players. I don't like playing for big pots without reads early on.

feitr said:

Biggest pot, although it really isn't that big But not bad for low stakes!

--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------
Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
Hero (BB): $323.95 (162 bb)
SB: $355.92 (178 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is BB with A♥ K♦
SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $18, SB calls $14
Flop: ($36) K♣ 5♠ 3♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $30, SB calls $30
Turn: ($96) K♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $80, SB calls $80
River: ($256) 8♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $195.95 and is all-in, SB calls $195.95
Results:[spoil] $647.90 pot ($0.50 rake)
[/spoil]

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wtf did villain have? I can't think of a hand that he doesnt 4bet with pre, or get it in on flop or on turn with, yet calls river. A suppose 9's is the only option but thats still a pretty outside chance on the river call

also zach, answer the damn question imo

Fascinated by these DONs after all the talk, I thought I'd give it a go.

I played one (1) hand, shoving AK after 35 minutes to pick up the blinds and a raise.

On the bubble this happened.

PokerStars Game #23973786005: Tournament #134480247, $50+$4 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/01/16 20:26:41 ET
Table '134480247 1' 10-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: 21outs (3990 in chips)
Seat 3: Irexes (1265 in chips)
Seat 4: -Batigol77- (2575 in chips)
Seat 5: 1DK101 (2145 in chips)
Seat 6: Tango7 (2935 in chips)
Seat 8: NeuroTempest (2090 in chips)
21outs: posts the ante 15
Irexes: posts the ante 15
-Batigol77-: posts the ante 15
1DK101: posts the ante 15
Tango7: posts the ante 15
NeuroTempest: posts the ante 15
NeuroTempest: posts small blind 75
21outs: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Irexes [5h Ah]
Irexes: folds
-Batigol77-: folds
1DK101: calls 150
Tango7: folds
NeuroTempest: raises 1925 to 2075 and is all-in
21outs: folds
1DK101: calls 1925
*** FLOP *** [Td 8s 6c]
*** TURN *** [Td 8s 6c] [8h]
*** RIVER *** [Td 8s 6c 8h] [3s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
NeuroTempest: shows [9s 9h] (two pair, Nines and Eights)
1DK101: shows [Kh Jc] (a pair of Eights)
NeuroTempest collected 4390 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4390 | Rake 0
Board [Td 8s 6c 8h 3s]
Seat 2: 21outs (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Irexes folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: -Batigol77- folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 1DK101 showed [Kh Jc] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 6: Tango7 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: NeuroTempest (small blind) showed [9s 9h] and won (4390) with two pair, Nines and Eights

All over two hands later.

Obviously tiny sample of one (1) but jeesus if it wasn't the poker equivalent of repeatedly stabbing yourself in the neck with a fork I'd look at making some stress free money at these.

switch0723 said:

wtf did villain have? I can't think of a hand that he doesnt 4bet with pre, or get it in on flop or on turn with, yet calls river. A suppose 9's is the only option but thats still a pretty outside chance on the river call

also zach, answer the damn question imo

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He had KQ or KJ.

Irexes said:

Obviously tiny sample of one (1) but jeesus if it wasn't the poker equivalent of repeatedly stabbing yourself in the neck with a fork I'd look at making some stress free money at these.

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except it stops being stress free when the shortstacks are in god mode any time you're at the table, proceed to win 7 or 8 of these all-ins, then you lose the very first time you're called, usually with the best hand. over and over and over again. every game. until you die

combuboom said:

except it stops being stress free when the shortstacks are in god mode any time you're at the table, proceed to win 7 or 8 of these all-ins

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I'll beat eNTy to it.... TRU DAT!

combuboom said:

except it stops being stress free when the shortstacks are in god mode any time you're at the table, proceed to win 7 or 8 of these all-ins, then you lose the very first time you're called, usually with the best hand. over and over and over again. every game. until you die

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I suspect this to be very much the case.

I hope to retire with my 100% record intact. But I suspect they are about as addictive as crack-candy and I will be tempted into one more until they eat my soul.

yes. yes you will

become one of us

one of us...
one of us...
one of us...

SavagePenguin said:

I'll beat eNTy to it.... TRU DAT!

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Beat me to what ?

I beat you to saying "Tru dat!'

SavagePenguin said:

I beat you to saying "Tru dat!'

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Meh only slightly true.
The last 30 of 120 was a minor downswing.
Guess it's acceptable although there were some foolish stack off situations in there, foolish on my part.

I can't help but wonder that my winrate would be much much higher if I 2-tabled instead of 8 or 9 tabled.

holy shit I'm cold. Power was out since last night at 10pm, swear to god I almost froze my nuts off.

Funny how much you depend on electricity. Don't realize it until you don't have it. No music, no movies, no poker, no light, no warmth, no electric can opener....

fking shipping it so hard. Basically the uni i go to is the only 1 on the world on a beach (don't know if thats a fact, but it's on a beach)

The layout is literally, beach, then road, then uni, and me and my mates just managed to get ourselves one of only 4 technical beach houses for next year. It's going to be so awsome through the summer until the winter where we freeze to death and drown from flooding, but being o nthe beach will make up for that

Kind of a bleh day so far, might put in a couple more tourneys, but the few I did get to play did not go too well. Still up on the day, just feels so bleh

sick downswong at tourny 6

switch0723 said:

sick downswong at tourny 6

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tourney 10 made up for it