Let's build some bankroll - who's with me?

wsorbust said:

I'm not going to post an update until I can see if (posting here) it is possibly affecting my play. I assure you I haven't lost it all, or any for that matter, since my last update.

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I can see that posting in this thread might affect your play. I do give some thought to what my graph will look like if I play X site or play longer. I have been playing ftp exactly long enough to get the 50 points each day for Iron Man Silver or Bronze status, so that is self-regulating. However, I am more likely to play other sites if I had a bad session at ftp. I don't THINK it affects my play, but I do see how it could.

didimaketherightplay said:

STARTING BR - $110.03
DAY 1 - 108.93
DAY 2 - 125.53
DAY 3 - 115.13
DAY 4 - 85.53!
DAY 5- OFF!!
DAY 6 - 102.13

ok i've totally forgotten the formula for calculating percentages here so please be gentle when explaining it. I've been out of school for 7 years now.

Is it starting bankroll/ result x 100?

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Well, I have been out of school for probably twice as long as you have been alive, but I can help. % = (Day balance/Starting balance)x100. So, day one is 108.93/110.03*100 or 99.0%.

oh OK thanks. the way i did was 110/108x100= 101.85 so 100 - 1.85 = 98.15 not very efficient.

pigpen02 said:

I can see that posting in this thread might affect your play. I do give some thought to what my graph will look like if I play X site or play longer.

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I strongly suggest to never think about the graph at all.
There's always a next hand, and while small parts of the graph may look a bit different if you shift the "sampling points" (i.e. end of day/session), the graph in its entirety will be very similar.

Also, nobody should be worried about posting downswings. As we've all seen, they simply happen and there's nothing you can do.
Some of the early posters haven't updated in a while. I wonder, have they lost interest in this, are they experiencing a bad run, or have they simply not been playing?

Maybe I'll send out a PM to everybody who's posted in this thread, asking them to keep updating. The idea really is to have a fairly continuous stream of updates by as many people as possible. So far, it's mostly Boltneck and I who have been updating daily or every other day.

I have sorta been trying to update every week just because I didn't want to fill the thread with my data for others to wade through. Also, several times, I updated my data and then played more. This makes for inconsistant daily results. If you want daily posts, no problem; I will just have to be sure and do them at the end of my playing day.

Since I am not publishing dollar amounts, Cheeta's graphs don't give percentages a line. As you can see, that is no problem since I now have a graph as a part of my Excel record sheet. This thread has helped enormously in making me keep better records of my play. Cudos for keeping it up, Chris.

Great enhancement Cheetah - thank you.

In view of the different types of games played (limit / NL / S+G / MTT - not to mention varied session lengths) I don't think there is a "one size fits all" so profit per day is the most meaningful measurement with the data available.

Thanks again.

pigpen02 said:

Since I am not publishing dollar amounts, Cheeta's graphs don't give percentages a line. As you can see, that is no problem since I now have a graph as a part of my Excel record sheet. This thread has helped enormously in making me keep better records of my play. Cudos for keeping it up, Chris.

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pigpen, all you had to do is ask me to change it. It is probably too late now for you since you set up your own graphs. But if you (or anyone else) still wants percentages as lines, please let me know and I will change it.

BTW, I like your new avatar.

Cheetah said:

pigpen, all you had to do is ask me to change it. It is probably too late now for you since you set up your own graphs. But if you (or anyone else) still wants percentages as lines, please let me know and I will change it.

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If I may speak for pigpen, I think it would certainly be a good idea to change the percentage graph to a curve. I'm sure he could copy over his data, and I'd love for the graphs in this thread to be somewhat consistent.

Since the % and $ graph is going to look identical except for the vertical axis labeling, is it maybe possible to use a dual labeling? Let's say the percentage amount sits to the left of the graph (where the dollar amount is now), and the dollar amount sits to the right of the graph, but only if available.
As always, if this is too difficult technically then two seperate graphs are perfectly fine!

Cheetah said:

pigpen, all you had to do is ask me to change it. It is probably too late now for you since you set up your own graphs. But if you (or anyone else) still wants percentages as lines, please let me know and I will change it.

BTW, I like your new avatar.

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I didn't want to be a problem and already had my Excel sheet set up. I like having the graph to play with without being in this thread, like splitting my data into pre- and post-limit change for trend line. I can always add my data to your graphs to be consistent, though. Thanks.

I was looking for a Christmas avatar. The prior one looked too much like a teddy bear.

Progress Update

Day 37: 395% ($7,901)
Day 38: 428% ($8,565)
Day 39: 440% ($8,808)

Today has been amazingly unspectacular. I have only lost one stack but haven't won any big pots either.

I also played a $100+8 MTT and got busted after about an hour with QQ<AQ. I think I'll play these multi-table tournaments quite regularly now. Maybe one per day or so.

Day 111 113.6%
Day 112 117.2%

Day 112, a good day at Full Tilt Poker, not so good at Ultimatebet.

Making graph more like others.

Cheetah said:

pigpen, all you had to do is ask me to change it. It is probably too late now for you since you set up your own graphs. But if you (or anyone else) still wants percentages as lines, please let me know and I will change it.

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Just a thought Cheetah, but I can see the time coming (probably sooner rather than later) when the number of grid lines for days becomes rather cluttered. I'm just wondering how easy it would be (wouldn't want to put you to anymore trouble than necessary) to just show grid lines for every 7 days?

In other words, the actual curve would be exactly the same as it is now (representing each individual session as now) but the number of vertical grid lines would be reduced. What does everyone else think?

I think it will happen automatically. I certainly hope so. I use a perl-based package to plot this. I am limited to its limitations, but benefit from the ease I can use it with.

Updates for the last few days.

Day 1: 117% ($59.48)
Day 2: 123% ($62.85) - A up and down day. Lost 1 SNG placed 2nd in another one.
Day 3: 85% ($43.45) - HORRIBLE day. First SNG after gaining an early chip lead I then get knocked off by A 7 while I had A J. Second SNG, again an early chip lead and then get my pocket A's broken by pocket 8's which caught a third 8 on the flop. Ring games were up and down and then went horribly bad and I ended up losing a lot of money and went on tilt. I then lost a huge put with my A Q floping 3 aces but got them cracked by pocket 2's which flopped a full house I played A LOT of poker today and am increadibly upset at just all the horrible beats I took today (and there was A LOT). Hopefully tomorrow will turn around and I'll make my money back.

day 1- 110.03 %100
day 6- 142.50 %129.5 my br was at 108 from 97 on the day so i decided to play an 11 dollar sng and won it.

Here we go with my non-progress(LOL).

Day 13:144%($505.50)Played a $7.50 MTT and cashed $14.Played an $11 SNG,got 2nd.Not a bad day.

Day 14:112%($392.12)Played ring games on tilt all day.I really donked up the cash games today.Got frustrated and played at the casino for about a $25 loss(but had fun).Not a good day.

Day 15:112%($391.97)Didn't have it in me to play poker today.Played the CC freeroll and played well I guess.Lost about 50 cents at casino in a few hours(not bad).

Day 16:106%($369.82)Played in the CC $11 tourney at Bodog.Played well,but bubbled out.That was all the poker I played today.Let my sister have $20 to play casino games.That's all for today.

I am posting this right before I begin day 17.I feel good today and I sholud come ahead by the end of the day.Staying away from cash games and playing some SNG,s.Good luck to me.

AutoArt said:

Day 2: 123% ($62.85) - A up and down day. Lost 1 SNG placed 2nd in another one.
Day 3: 85% ($43.45) - HORRIBLE day.

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May I ask what stakes you played and whether you have bankroll rules?
Please make sure that you have good and safe BRM rules in place and that you never violate them.

I know that losing a third of one's bankroll is possible even when sticking to certain rules - I just want to make sure that my fellow bankroll builders don't make mistakes such as chasing losses at higher stakes.

Day 36: 284% (374.05)
Day 37: 284% (374.38)
Day 39: 256% (337.00)

I didn’t play yesterday, and to be honest I wish I hadn’t played today either – it was a nightmare. I decided to play 2 tables for the first time. I was a lot more comfortable than I thought I would be, and I don’t believe that it was the cause of my disastrous deficit for the day. However, I will review my play shortly to satisfy myself that this was not a contributory factor.

It was just one of those days when I got loads of marginal hands, and the premium hands that I did get got beaten. I had KK-JJ on 9 occasions. I won once with KK, and lost all the rest. If you’re only winning 11% of hands with KK-JJ I guess the result is inevitable. Just when I thought things were beginning to move in the right direction again, all of my profit for the previous 7 days gets wiped out – I do hate poker sometimes!!!!

Progress Update

Day 38: 428% ($8,565)
Day 39: 440% ($8,808)
Day 40: 465% ($9,303)

Today was another big milestone for me because I've moved up to $2/$4.
No, I didn't "take a shot" - by buying in for only $320 per table, I managed to stick to my bankroll rules. At 10K I'll buy in for $350, and at 12K I'll buy in for the max.

Upon my arrival at the NL400 tables, I quickly noticed that most players are much more aggressive than at NL200, particularly at the shorthanded tables.
My preflop raises get 3-bet all the time, people use position mercilessly, i.e. check to them once and Bang! potsized bet. Call the bet and Bang! potsized followup bet.

Also, you always get action. At the shorthanded NL200 tables, my preflop raises would very often just pick up the blinds. At NL400, I'd say I get action 80% of the time.

It won't take me very long to get used to all this aggression. The beauty about these players is that you can let them do the betting when you've got a big hand. Check to them and you can be sure they'll bet.

I have found though that my own play has become much more aggressive. I used to play TAG-Neutral, but over the course of today, my postflop play has become fairly aggressive as well. Without this adjustment I think I'd get eaten alive.

One such instance is a hand where I held AK on the button. UTG made a standard raise to $14 and got called by the cutoff. I made it $50 to go, UTG folded and the cutoff called.
The flop comes Jack high, the cutoff checks to me. I bet $75, he calls. The turn comes a 10, he checks again. I had about $210 left and without even thinking about it pushed it into the middle (after all, I was representing a big pair). He folded and insta-sat-out.

Above hand occured towards the end of the session, I couldn't have made a move like that earlier.
The sheer amount of money that's being pushed around at these levels is quite new to me, and it'll take me a while to fully realize that being stuck e.g. $150 means absolutely nothing because you can make that back in a single medium-sized pot.

I really like this thread. Id love to see you post a few of your hands in the HA forums Chris. It would be nice to see some of the action that goes on at nl$400.

Chris_TC said:

May I ask what stakes you played and whether you have bankroll rules?
Please make sure that you have good and safe BRM rules in place and that you never violate them.

I know that losing a third of one's bankroll is possible even when sticking to certain rules - I just want to make sure that my fellow bankroll builders don't make mistakes such as chasing losses at higher stakes.

Click to expand...

I usually do end up following the chris ferguson br rules. I play the 1.20 SNG's $.01/.02 ring games and $.02/.05 ring games. Kinda stretching the 5% rule but those are the lowest ring games. I do pretty good in ring games usually but last night I was doing bad at the $.01/$.02 ring and decent at the $.02/$.05 (when I say bad I mean I was just getting sucked out on or getting my good hands broken, I don't mean I was playing bad or dumb). After taking multiple bad beats in the ring games and SNG's at around 3 or 4 am I decided to jump on the $.10/$.25 games like a dummy. I was doing okay but that's when I ran into the A Q vs 2 2 situation and I lost a huge pot. After that I realized how much of an idiot I was being I signed off. It was really of stupid of me to break my BR rules and I have learned a lot. I definitely know now to watch myself and not do the same thing. I also now know if after a couple hours I am getting every real hand I get gets broken with a bunch of bad beats that I should just call it a day. I did notice that even after taking beat after beat after beat even though I was really mad I still played like I usually do and not just start playing bad cards or playing too aggressively.

Day 112 116.8%
Day 113 120.3%

Day 113, a good day at Full Tilt Poker, not so good CCoP#6. Neither was CCoP #5 but I forgot to subtract the entry fee in my bankroll spreadsheet; corrected day 112. Last couple of days I have been playing some $2/$4 instead of $1/$2. One $2/$4 table fits with my bankroll rules. I find that there are just as many fine players (*cough*fish*cough*) at either tables. Another couple of good days like today and $3/$6 fits.

I tried playing two $1/$2 but did worse than one $2/$4. Still play just enough to make 50 points for Iron Man promotion, but this is quicker at a higher table, of course. That is all the time I want to spend playing poker right now. There are several things that I am finishing so I can spend more time on line.

My plan was to add some MTT play by assigning half of the increase from a base at Full Tilt Poker to MTT play and half to bankroll increase. However, that was at day 76. Soon after that my Full Tilt Poker account took a big hit and it is just getting back to the base level. Curve increase includes PokerStars and recently Ultimatebet play. I was assigning PokerStars increase to CCoP fees and Ultimatebet to just increasing Ultimatebet bankroll level. I will have to go back and decide how much to do what with. I have a $26 token at ftp and a ticket for a Weekly Stage 2 at PokerStars, but not enough time to play either right now.

I am about to finish my Full Tilt Poker first deposit bonus time without working it all off, but I didn't expect to get as much as I have. There is an Iron Man bonus that I will get in January. It has to be worked off in 30 days, I think. Bonus additions help the balance, of course.

Graph is looking better, too. Practice, practice, practice shows results. Doesn't take much to see the improvement from the first 70 days of getting back into the swing and reviewing books. I played much lower limits ($0.25/$0.50) when the slope was negative. No need in losing faster.

tenbob said:

I really like this thread. Id love to see you post a few of your hands in the HA forums Chris. It would be nice to see some of the action that goes on at nl$400.

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Of course, if a particularly interesting hand goes down, I'll certainly do that.

But your request inspired me to play another quick session at 4am and record the gameplay.
There's no sound, but I think some may find it interesting.

400NL - 2 tables at 5-max

I was also playing a full ring table, but it's not included in the video to keep the file size smaller.
Oh, and please don't call me a luckbox, I'm well aware of how well I hit my hands during this session

And a quick rundown of my Pokeroffice overlays:
R/ Preflop Raise %
F/ SawFlop %
T/ Flop-Turn %
H/ Amount of hands in the database
B/ Bet Flop %
C/ C-Bet %
A/ Postflop Aggression Factor
$/ PTBB per 100 hands

Pretty good day today. Played the $.02/.05 ring games. Found a perfect table with a couple of fishes and made some decent money. A couple of bad beats and a couple of bad call on my part but nothing major. Almost back to 100%!! I got back up to 100% but lost a couple bucks before I called it a day. Hope tomorrow goes as well as today

Day 1: 117% ($59.48)
Day 2: 123% ($62.85)
Day 3: 85% ($43.45)
Day 4: 96% ($48.95)

Good Luck everyone, shouldnt we all be trying to build our bankrolls anyway, thats the point right lol