Phil Hellmuth is kind of bad at the pokers

switch0723 said:

even if the kid has aces, its still a bad fold in the long run

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The kid had only raised once preflop the whole tournament. I think it would be fair to assume he would only be raising with AK, KK, or AA. If Hellmuth really thought that, it wouldn't be a bad fold.

jamesdadeliverer said:

The kid had only raised once preflop the whole tournament. I think it would be fair to assume he would only be raising with AK, KK, or AA. If Hellmuth really thought that, it wouldn't be a bad fold.

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So? Live tournaments last like 80 hands. They were probably an hour, aka 20 hands, in.

hacklimit said:

You're right. Phil is "kind of bad at the pokers". Just ask his 11 WSOP bracelets and they will tell you the same thing.

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Oh noes! He won a bunch of tournaments with 100 entrants! Let's give him a gold star!

Phil is so irksome he's comical.

Gavin Smith was at the table to.......Phil didn't notice.........lol

I want to see Phil oneday get so mad and throw his hat at someone or somthing, on camera. that would hilarious i think.

vanquish said:

Oh noes! He won a bunch of tournaments with 100 entrants! Let's give him a gold star!

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True, I think most of his bracelets were won with very small fields. Even the ME fields were like 200 or less.

The QQ fold was terrible, even calling to see a flop would have been a better choice, start with 9k, if it comes AK5, he still has 7.2k left.

Still thats a shitty choice too, in a WTA format you just insta shove in this spot.

OMGPHILLIPYOUSUCK.

jamesdadeliverer said:

The kid had only raised once preflop the whole tournament. I think it would be fair to assume he would only be raising with AK, KK, or AA. If Hellmuth really thought that, it wouldn't be a bad fold.

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They were on like the 3rd blind level so the sample size is ridiculously small. The thing is with phil is that he waits until he has 5bb's waiting for a 'better spot' then ships it in when he finally gets aces, gets called by someone with pocket 3's becuase he has awsome odds, then complains at his ridiculous luck

zachvac said:

Is this a joke?

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No its not a joke, its just my opinion. He has 11 bracelets(all in Holdem, ye small fields, but best players), record wsop cashes and he is in his 40s.

You said best player though, do you believe he is better than:

Brunson, Negreanu, Ivey, Antonius, Gold (yes that one WAS a joke)?

And that's not even getting into the top internet players. He's not a bad tournament player, and note that most tournaments he gets deep in is against a lot of fish. But him at a table with other top pros and he gets eaten alive imo. Sure he's probably better than me, and better than the majority of players out there. But to say he's the best in the world is stretching it a bit imo.

I think if he plays he's best game he can outplay the players above. And playing the internet aint playing live. Still, it was ONLY my opinion.

I'm pretty sure the interviewer was the only thing good about this video.

zachvac said:

You said best player though, do you believe he is better than:

Brunson, Negreanu, Ivey, Antonius, Gold (yes that one WAS a joke)?

And that's not even getting into the top internet players. He's not a bad tournament player, and note that most tournaments he gets deep in is against a lot of fish. But him at a table with other top pros and he gets eaten alive imo. Sure he's probably better than me, and better than the majority of players out there. But to say he's the best in the world is stretching it a bit imo.

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Pretty goddamn sure you're a better cash player than Hellmuth. I don't think you play many tournaments, but if you did get into them I say you'd be better than him in no time... seriously, the guy pretty much sucks against non fish. I say most winning players online, even mid stakes players, have a better grasp of the game than him. The ONLY reasonable defense against this atrocious fold comes from a marketing stand point. If the other guy had aces or kings every idiot watching on TV would go ballistic with this fold, perpetuating this as the one of the greatest folds of all time to everyone who doesn't have a clue (read: almost everyone).

I mean, if you even try to defend this abortion from a pot odds / equity point of view, let me tell you this... let's say the other guy's raising range is AK, JJ+ (which is obviously very very ridiculously tight)... you're almost 50% against that range with QQ, which means it's better to push than to fold given the dead money!! And even if he open folds JACKS, QQ is pretty much just a 1.5 to 1 dog against KK+, AK. Loosen up that range (which you obviously should) and QQ is crushing it!!! So can your great idol Phil Hellmuth defy simple math?? You decide.

What happened to ignoring someone's results when it comes to analyzing said person's game? Variance is really enormous when it comes to tournaments, and, like downswings, upswings happen too. And they can appear in the form of, say, 11 bracelets. In 50 player fields. 20 years ago. When the game wasn't even nearly as sophisticated as today. Especially if you consider the very small volume you can put in live. Maybe you should think twice before reproducing plays made by this so called "top pro" when you play, they just might not be as profitable as you think...

Phill Hellmuth

All I can say is...............NEVER QUESTION Hellmuth!

switch0723 said:

even if the kid has aces, its still a bad fold in the long run

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Question. How is it bad in the long run to fold Queens if your opponent has Aces?

diamond_06_06 said:

Question. How is it bad in the long run to fold Queens if your opponent has Aces?

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In the long run, your opponent won't always have aces.

As much as i hate all his tirades, Phil is the most decorated Poker Player still in his prime, and if he were so terrible we wouldnt have a thread specifically to rant and rave about him

I wish Phil would one time accept the challenge made by Durrrrr to play HU. Then we would see the real character of the man. But he is a gutless wonder who continues to pick on those that dont have the medals that he has. He is a complete ass and I turn the tube off when he is on.

It's hard to come to terms with, but Mr. Hellmuth's track record does prove that in general he understands how to abuse lesser players. He has the most bracelets, the most cashes, and the most final tables. He was the youngest to ever win the WSOPME... Ya the guy's an ass, but he's really good at poker.

It's important to understand he also has a huge edge just because he is "Phil Hellmuth". He probably gets paid off more, he probably gets called light all-in pre-flop cause people want to take out Phil Hellmuth. Still he has proven to most that at the WSOP against random players he's the best.

im sorry but phil use to be my fav player but lately ...i do not like him any more he is the worst i mean come on dude what the heck man why does he cry so much ...and allways a poor sport when you lose your supose to be nice and say nice hand not him though "i cant beleive it what a bad call im the best out there and you called me im phil cry cry cry" folded pocket queens what a bad move the raise wasnt even that much . i hope he gets a new career because hes gunna go broke playin like that


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you cannot change the cards your delt just the way you play them RANDY PAUSCH

i absolutely hate phil hellmuth. i have been watching the wsop quite often and all the guy does is bitch. he makes poker seem like it is 100% statistics and 0% luck of the draw. he just rants when something doesnt go right and he ends up making fun of th epeople who beat him. i absolutely hate him with a passion.

vanquish said:

In the long run, your opponent won't always have aces.

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^^ What this dude said

phil hellmuth is one of the best in the world in my opinion. i seen him lay down AK on a flop of K rag rag and the guy had aces , sick. however the best poker players make bad folds sometimes because they r willing to fold big hands. u tell phil hes a bad player hell just shake his 11 bracelets and most wsop cashes lol.

Didnt he fold a,k on a ace rag rag flop? of which it was pretty obvious the guy had aces since he basically min 3bet then checked the flop where he hit top set and was trying really hard to act weak. Too much is made about that fold, not that i would ever make that fold, since i woulda shipped it in pre coz i suck.

fwiw when im playing phil hellmuth for the wsop main event bracelent, i think im just gonig to open shove every hand until he 'finds the right spot'

I too saw that program, in my opinion, how could you fold the PQ's. Looked great on TV but seriously, six handed and fold??????