Phil Hellmuth is kind of bad at the pokers

I think it's really odd that poker players that think they are smart can say that Phil is a bad poker player or ever was. He has basiclly crushed the biggest tournament series in poker history (wsop & all prelim events). I can't stand the guy, but he is really good at poker no question.

Recent history of event wins for Phil. Take note he doesn't play in as many events as others anymore. He still plays a lot of volume, but his results can't be argued.

TournamentPlaceWinnings2008 WSOPE, Event 2, H.O.R.S.E. 12th£6,1882008 WSOP, Event 54, Main Event No-Limit Hold'em 45th$154,4002008 WSOP, Event 51, H.O.R.S.E. 3rd$93,1682008 WSOP, Event 47, 7-Card Stud Hi-Lo 8-or-Better 33rd$2,8952008 WSOP, Event 32, No-Limit Hold'em 71st$6,6042008 WSOP, Event 28, Pot-Limit Omaha w/Rebuys 8th$100,292WPT Season 6, L.A. Poker Classic 6th$229,8202007 WSOP, Event 52, No-Limit Hold'em w/re-buys 95th$4,8402007 WSOP, Event 45, No-Limit Hold'em/Six Handed 31st$13,3442007 WSOP, Event 34, Limit Hold'em 25th$7,7619
2007 WSOP, Event 28, No-Limit Hold'em 6th$76,4642007 WSOP, Event 15, No-Limit Hold'em 1st$637,254WPT Season 5, WPT World Championship 18th$123,76


I know watching him play on TV it seems he's lost a lot in those high stakes cash games. Here's a little secret thos games are not "real" poker. Yes they are playing for real money, yes they keep the money, but professional poker players don't sit around and play the best players every night. Some of the big time players play in the big game, but there is always a catalist (big money player that isn't a pro player). They are not usually playing each other. The best skill Phil has is exploting players that are not as good as him (one of the most important skills IMO). He's made just under $10 million in tournaments and I'm sure many times that in side games. If you think anyone that can make that much money at poker and still thinks he isn't any good your crazy.

When he takes insurance he looks like a fool, but think about it this way. He pays somewhere between 5-10% of the pot he is favored to win to a insurance giver. Most times he just looses that 5%, but on the times he gets that bad beat he still wins the pot size - now these are HUGE pots. It does 2 things for him. He's sure he will win at least 90% of the current pot. Not too bad to MAKE sure you will win. The other thing it does is protect him against loosing large pots and having it affect his game. How often have you lost a big pot on a miracle river and then blow off your stk. TOO OFTEN FOR ME!!!!

Plus most of the time when he's acting up it's for the camera. The other times he does it he's trying to get into the heads of the other players. Believe it or not there are players that start playing so tight and scared when there Phil starts doing his thing that he can start stealing blinds all day long cause their nervous to be critized by Phil. He can manipulate people into doing things they wouldn't normally do.

There is no arguing that the guy with the most WSOP cashes, the most WSOP final tables, $9+million in tournament earnings, and the most in endorsment deals name is Phil Hellmuth and he is a great player!

If he's not that good at poker I would like to be just as good as him, even if he is an A-HOLE!

shamwow said:

Lol, I love Phil Hellmuth. Check out this vid YouTube - Phil Hellmuth Blows Up On Poker After Dark Part 1 of 3

He blows up, which I find hilarious for strange reasons.

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dude he is always blowing up...he has real anger management issues rofl. I was watching him play in the WSOP on T.V. the other day and he calls other players idiots when they beat him in hands. It really funny, but still.....he can be a real asshole.

laugh at his antics all you want but the reality is he has the most Wsop braclets, the most cash's and the most final table's.

Every hand I have seen Phil Hellmuth on TV recently he has played like a true donkey.

hmm...

wow Phil Hellmuth...so many ppl compare his bad play with their own shall we say...

GOOD PLAY??? ummm...

love that comparison...like comparing apples to hmm...lets say...

CHEESE!!!

gotta luv it...

If he had pushed and an Ace had hit the flop. you would all be bitching saying he should have folded and what a bad shove it was.

If he'd flat called and an Ace had hit the river and he had to fold you'd have said what a great laydown it was.

If Ivey or Brunson had done that you would be claiming what a great laydown it was.

I think the bloke couldnt win whatever he did. Some people just dont like him because of his attitude. Fair enough.. But if someone lays down QQ because they think they may be dominated pre flop and to call would put them out the game, it doesnt make them automatically a terrible player.

I've seen Negeanu, Ivey, Brunson and countless others make far worse decisions than that one.. No one claims they are terrible players.

fcumred said:

If he had pushed and an Ace had hit the flop. you would all be bitching saying he should have folded and what a bad shove it was.

If Ivey or Brunson had done that you would be claiming what a great laydown it was.

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um no shoving qq when shortstack is never a bad play, especailly when you have your oppoenent crushed

Ivey or Brunson wouldnt make the fold so that point is just moot

pkrook said:

wow Phil Hellmuth...so many ppl compare his bad play with their own shall we say...

GOOD PLAY??? ummm...

love that comparison...like comparing apples to hmm...lets say...

CHEESE!!!

gotta luv it...

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WTF are you talking about?

Mannnnn.. He gives the underdogs wayyyyyyyy too much credit.. i would've atleast called and if there was no K or A i'd raise it quite a bit and see what my opponent does. Mannnnn!! Now i wanna go play vs Phil!! I feel like I got what it takes hahaha

The directors cut of this episode is awsome, Hellmuths explanation is something like this

'People out there will say its a bad fold, but i dont play their way, i play phil hellmuth school of poker' - something like that and it is lolable.

He still thinks it was an awsome laydown yet when mike matusow folds tptk to leave himself as shortstack, when gavin has bottom two, hellmuth thinks mikes fold was a bad fold, now that doesnt make sense, hellmuth folds the best hand when statistically he is only beaten by 2 hands and its awsome, mike fold the worst handwhen beaten by something like 10 hands and its a bad fold.

zachvac said:

You said best player though, do you believe he is better than:

Brunson, Negreanu, Ivey, Antonius, Gold (yes that one WAS a joke)?

And that's not even getting into the top internet players. He's not a bad tournament player, and note that most tournaments he gets deep in is against a lot of fish. But him at a table with other top pros and he gets eaten alive imo. Sure he's probably better than me, and better than the majority of players out there. But to say he's the best in the world is stretching it a bit imo.

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You're kidding right? Probably? I am positive that he is.

troyer16 said:

You're kidding right? Probably? I am positive that he is.

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Because he won 11 tournaments?
So, is shaundeeb better than Hellmuth then?

vanquish said:

Because he won 11 tournaments?
So, is shaundeeb better than Hellmuth then?

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how about the poster and hellmuth compare bankrolls.

my favorite part of the whole video....matasow " have you been stealing drugs out of my pouch" harmon "be nice mikey"

troyer16 said:

how about the poster and hellmuth compare bankrolls.

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That is a bit of a silly point. If Bill Gates played poker his bankroll would be huge. Yet that wouldn't make him a better player would it.

troyer16 said:

how about the poster and hellmuth compare bankrolls.

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lol at u thinking phil is uber rich

troyer16 said:

how about the poster and hellmuth compare bankrolls.

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So Guy Laliberte is better than Hellmuth?

Worst fold ever...... I'm a donk and even I know that.......

hilojackgame said:

hellmuth is a whiner he needs to shut his mouth 99% of the time

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Phil is the bracelet-king look how the king looks over his land.
BOW TO THE KING !!!!!!!!!

The site poker-edge.com has profiles of several famous players including Hellmuth who is classified as a "maniac" meaning loose aggressive. It gives the following description/ advise for Phil:


Weaknesses: As a loose player, you are often behind when you enter pots. You will end up in dominated situations against better players, and unless you have excellent judgement they will take your money. Your maniacal behavior is ironically predictable. Good players will wait for strong hands and let you bet into them. When you lose, you lose big. In fact, even when you are winning big, there's a good chance you might lose it all before the night is over.

Best Advice: Tighten up your starting hand requirements. Work on self control. Pay attention to your table image - if people always think you are bluffing, only bet strong hands.

I'd say its good advise. It sounds much like the advise Phil gives in his own book.

Maybe he should read it?

nuts422 said:

The site poker-edge.com has profiles of several famous players including Hellmuth who is classified as a "maniac" meaning loose aggressive. It gives the following description/ advise for Phil:


Weaknesses: As a loose player, you are often behind when you enter pots. You will end up in dominated situations against better players, and unless you have excellent judgement they will take your money. Your maniacal behavior is ironically predictable. Good players will wait for strong hands and let you bet into them. When you lose, you lose big. In fact, even when you are winning big, there's a good chance you might lose it all before the night is over.

Best Advice: Tighten up your starting hand requirements. Work on self control. Pay attention to your table image - if people always think you are bluffing, only bet strong hands.

I'd say its good advise. It sounds much like the advise Phil gives in his own book.

Maybe he should read it?

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WTF, it says Hellmuth is a "maniac"? He's like the biggest nit ever.

WTF?

What do u mean u dont think thats a bad fold? he only has 10k left. lmfao. Thats a no brainer. Why the hell u play poker if u dont got the stones to stick it in with qq on the low... Lmfao. That should go in the stupid hallof fame. Iam no poker pro but all u who think iam wrong please tell me.. even of was short stack the raise was only a little over a k... wtf why not call then insta push if u get a small board.. Sorry thats retarded and if u dont got stones in that position then u shouldnt play.. And with all his money whats he laying taht down for for only ten k


Gimme a break.....Thats something i believe was set for the tv time and to make him look like a genius.. I didnt see a rabbit hunt so to me he looks like a clown

Phil Hellmuth is also kind of bad at the drivings?

i can't stand ph the way he plays the way he does everything in poker and by the way negreanu is much better!

i think this is hilarious. just the way phil talks down to him after the hand.

YouTube - Phil Hellmuth vs Tom "Durrr" Dwan