Rigged: The AA test

Please people. I know I'm asking a lot, but can we at least try to keep the debate in this thread about the statistics? Does anyone even look at the the tables I've prepared and that many of us have contributed to?

I know I asked for it by putting the word RIGGED in the title, but I had hoped our discussions on the subject would be a cut or two above the other 10,000 or so threads out there on the subject.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can improve this thread? Is there anything I should add to the table? Any numbers that need explaining? Etc.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been more discussion about the Full Tilt nubers that are so out of whack for the sample size. I would have thought that the RIGGED contingent would be jumping all over this.

More later.

How I use PT to filter out the times that I got AA since the last time I gave you the stats?

odinscott said:

How I use Poker Tracker to filter out the times that I got AA since the last time I gave you the stats?

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Your last contribution was April 11th. If you're using PT2 go to
Ring Game Player Statistics. Click on the Preferences tab. In the upper left hand corner you'll see 4 options for Session Dates. Select the 3rd option Since A Date. Enter 04/11/2008. Click on the General Info tab. You will be asked if you want to save your changes. You do. Oh, while your in preferences make sure you are filtered for one and only one poker site, and that you are not filtered for any specific limit or game.

If you're using PT3, um.... ask ChuckTs.

I have the beta one on here now. I am not sure where the other guy gets that its obvious (abvious) but the filter doesnt work like it used too... =\

Edit: I figured how to get AA up, but how do I know how many hands were played in that time? I can see that aces came up 10 times, but not how many hands since that day. Lemme keep playing with it...

I'm too lazy to read thru this whole thing..........but..........yesterday I witnessed a royal flush beating 4 of a kind. IN PERSON REAL CARDS. I'm not too much of a math mind and would like to know the odds of this.
Flop K clubs 10 clubs 7 hearts
turn 10 hearts
River J Clubs

Pocket 10's lost too A Q clubs this has got to be almost like winning the Powerball as far a odds go.
AGAIN THIS WAS LIVE AND IN PERSON WITH REAL CARDS!!

mikeormel said:

I'm too lazy to read thru this whole thing..........but..........yesterday I witnessed a royal flush beating 4 of a kind. IN PERSON REAL CARDS. I'm not too much of a math mind and would like to know the odds of this.
Flop K clubs 10 clubs 7 hearts
turn 10 hearts
River J Clubs

Pocket 10's lost too A Q clubs this has got to be almost like winning the Powerball as far a odds go.
AGAIN THIS WAS LIVE AND IN PERSON WITH REAL CARDS!!

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If you were playing on a badbeat table, you all would of got paid. LOL

odinscott said:

I have the beta one on here now. I am not sure where the other guy gets that its obvious (abvious) but the filter doesnt work like it used too... =\

Edit: I figured how to get AA up, but how do I know how many hands were played in that time? I can see that aces came up 10 times, but not how many hands since that day. Lemme keep playing with it...

Click to expand...

Hmm. I'll look into it.

Ok. If anything, filtering for sessions or hands that have occurred Since a Date is even easier in PT3 than in PT2.
Under the main Cash Games tab select the Filters button at the upper right.
Under the General tab you will see in the upper right an option for Session Dates. The default is All Dates, but if you click on the black arrow a drop down menu appears with 3 additional options, Specific Dates, Since a Date, and Between Dates. of course you want Since a Date just like in PT2. Again enter 4/11/08 and while your there, filter for the specific site you want to add the stats from. If you only play at one site then this is unecessary. Then go to the Hands tab and your done, except for the posting part that is.

Oh! Don't forget to remove your filters when your done.

Supposely the chance of gettin delt AA from the dealer is 0.48% chance. Now i went to a casino n managed to get to the final table n AA popped up 5times!!! So i dont realy jip online sites anymore. I used to think they were rigged untill i saw AA flyin around the final table. I never got it tho so i was bit unhappy hahahaha.

i would just stick to real money tournies. i dont think they can rake like that in a tourney can they?

Poker software, just like any other computer game, can be set at various levels of difficulty or changed to suit various preset parameters, such as Freezeout or Rebuy, etc. You may get used to a certain way the cards fall at a particular site, then the next time you Login there is a software update and the game style has altered. It's all part of the fun.

The most common "fix" in internetpoker is "the largeststackfix", used in freerolls. All pokersite use this to end freerolls faster. Freerolls just cost money 4 pokersites and should be ended as quickly as possible. The "kings" of this fix r Microgaming/Prima. Playing freerolls at one of theire sites is a joke. Of course pokersites "help out" otherwise as well. They do that so that every1 win from time to time, happygoluckypoker is the word. If u play fixed limit, u can count the time some1 win 3 in a row, by being delt good cards. I would say u NEVER see it. And that is because if some1 win 3 in a row, people get susp. and leave and pokersite dont like that. So max 2 in a row is built into the software. So the "fixes" r there to see to it that every1 win a little. The thing in poker is NOT TO LOOSE. We can all play "the monster hands".

ogawumbo said:

The most common "fix" in internetpoker is "the largeststackfix", used in freerolls. All pokersite use this to end freerolls faster. Freerolls just cost money 4 pokersites and should be ended as quickly as possible. The "kings" of this fix r Microgaming/Prima. Playing freerolls at one of theire sites is a joke. Of course pokersites "help out" otherwise as well. They do that so that every1 win from time to time, happygoluckypoker is the word. If u play fixed limit, u can count the time some1 win 3 in a row, by being delt good cards. I would say u NEVER see it. And that is because if some1 win 3 in a row, people get susp. and leave and pokersite dont like that. So max 2 in a row is built into the software. So the "fixes" r there to see to it that every1 win a little. The thing in poker is NOT TO LOOSE. We can all play "the monster hands".

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Wow you must be an industry insider! I for one I am so glad you have risked your job to let us all know this!

Being dealt aces is great, but how often does one actually win with the rockets is the number I'm more interested in.

wonderful post

Nice to see that this thread is still generating some interest, but I'd like to see some more stat contributions.

Thanks

FD

depends

willie beaman said:

Being dealt aces is great, but how often does one actually win with the rockets is the number I'm more interested in.

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It depends on the number of people in the hand. Personally 77% for me. I think 85% is the pre-flop % vs. 1 player. Although I'm sure this also depends on the limit your playing at too. AA might be called down to the river and someone hit a crazy straight, runner runner flush, or even 2 pair on the river. Higher limits if the flop doesn't fit most quit not always, but most of the time. On lower limits people like to chase crazy shiznit.

When looking at your stats it doesn't matter if there AA Or KK-all pairs will have the same percent of showing in your hole cards. I gotten 99 the most and 22 the least but they are all within tolerance.

PT percentages

Here's some numbers for me.
Does this seem pretty standard?

total 65533 hands on FullTilt mostly NL .25/.50 and .50/100

AA 336 times won percentage 92.56%
KK 300 times won percentage 84.67%
QQ 292 times won percentage 78.42%
JJ 309 times won percentage 71.84%

Wow finally a meaningfull sample from Full Tilt. And one that puts it's stats back in the realm of respectability. Thank you much sudic.

I always saw this thread from work, I rarely read the forums at night on my home computer, where my Poker Tracker database is.

My stats for:

PokerStars:
# of hands: 9,978
dealt AA: 46 (expected:45.15)


Full Tilt:
# of hands: 8,982
dealt AA: 42 (expected: 40.64)


PartyPoker:
# of hands: 1,331
dealt AA: 6 (expected: 6.02)


Doyle's Room:
# of hands: 3,024
dealt AA: 18 (expected: 13.68)

Overall I've won with Aces 83% of the time.

looks like this thread is back on track. Thanks for the data Gunslinger. I'll try to update this tonight.

Rigged??? You would be very foolish not to entertain or least be open to the slight possiblity. On the major sites, I believe they would be committing corporate sucide in a more and more competitive market. Smaller sites that are popping up all over now, you are taking a chance if you deposit without research or recomendations. Being based in many different offshore locations you are fool to think, if you do get ripped off you have any recourse to get your money back.

Poker has a long history of scams and cheats and edges. Live or not it is played with money. People will always try to beat the game with edges and cheat you if they get a chance live or not.Do not make the mistake of forgetting POKER history. Ring games or a short handed STG's you join, may be a shark tank with majority of the players colluding with each other to take it down. Its the sites best interest to keep the integrity of game high or they risk losing this virtual ATM to their competiters. Online you are dealing with people who have poker software that gives them your betting patterns ect.... I could go and on.

If you believe its rigged, but you still want to play. Do cry out "Its rigged" when your Aces get cracked, people make one outers, or you may of been outplayed If you are playing small stakes "COME ON" its reeks of such self importance THAT YOU BELIEVE they want your tiny buy in or Bank roll !!! Have the guts to take a tough beat. Evaluate your game or NOT. But dont expect me to have pity for you. I get beat and I deliver beats. My game has improved when I stopped crying about being outdrawn and evaluated my game and learned about my mistakes.If you played to the highest of your ability, you might of been just unlucky. I watch a ring game online for about 20 hands before I join or I look out for similar names in games and take notes. I protect my self at all times and accept the risk that poker has always had that in play. Watch the some great poker movies. Rounders and The cinncnati KID both show the skill of the game and of course its DARK side.

This from small time player who played a little poker in smoky cardrooms in CA playing LO ball and wondering why I keep getting the best draw and then paint after paint or pairs. I was suckered, overmatched,and outnumbered,but didn't stay a sucker I learned from it.

GunslingerZ said:

I always saw this thread from work, I rarely read the forums at night on my home computer, where my Poker Tracker database is.

My stats for:

PokerStars:
# of hands: 9,978
dealt AA: 46 (expected:45.15)


Full Tilt:
# of hands: 8,982
dealt AA: 42 (expected: 40.64)


PartyPoker:
# of hands: 1,331
dealt AA: 6 (expected: 6.02)


Doyle's Room:
# of hands: 3,024
dealt AA: 18 (expected: 13.68)

Overall I've won with Aces 83% of the time.

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Thank you Gunslinger. Sorry for the delay. It takes a little more effort to start stats on a new room. But, glad to have it. Pretty even stats in all rooms. Once again, your stats pushed my problem child, Full Tilt, a little in the right direction.

"The root of all superstition is that men observe when a thing hits, but not when it misses"

-Francis Bacon

MR TOYMAKER said:

Rigged??? You would be very foolish not to entertain or least be open to the slight possiblity.

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I have entertained it, then realised I would have to be a simpleton to think it.