dg1267 said:
OK m8, the problem with posting the HH in its entirety is that we can't make objective comments. It's very easy to look at the results and think...'yeah it's obvious he has AA... blah, blah...'
When your playing poker you have to assign a hand range to a particular villain given his actions. You can't accurately assign a exact hand on a villain unless you have very accurate reads (ie he's a nit who only raises AA utg!). So stats enable us to assign a range of hands on a particular villain given his position and actions. We then have some information that enables us to base our decisions on. So if the stats you have are pretty accurate, then I think our best option would be to raise the utg and isloate him to play position on him. OBV we can't assume he always has AA given his stats.
Another point regarding made hands... I appreciate the stakes your playing... but you cant always play hands post flop based on the fact you hit them or not. Your missing out so much on 'fold equity'. Not only that, we want to get our money in in situations were we maximise our fold equity, and the equity of our hand.
Crystal Blue said:
From my experience it usually means they have like 2nd pair or some kind of draw tbh
switch0723 said:
sindri_93 said:
I thought you wanted to do this sorry mate as you said you give out alot of them lol Sorry if you dont want to do them just say you dont lol I feel like a school teacher lol it sucks
At the end of the day guys no ones forcing you to do this. Anyone on here can look at the topics on show and choose to write something about them. You can even offer to do something of your own choice. You get out of it what you put in to it imo. Your not going to get shot down in flames. You post something> it encourages discussion > we all improve as a result.
Jagsti said:
Fold equity is a subject that might as well be Chinese arithmetic. I really don't understand it at all. I can't wait until whoever has that subject puts it in here. But I will go study up on this on my own. Any pointers would also be great.😀
Deltafrost said:
Just downloaded it.
It seems really good.. sort of a refined version of the AHK scripts.
BTW im considering getting one of these
http://www.techpowerup.com/?41351
in some ways pointless I know.. but they look dead cool!!!
Stealing
All right, here are my thoughts on stealing. If there is anything I left out got wrong etc let me know or start debating it.
Stealing
Stealing is open raising from late position with the intention of taking “Stealing” the blinds uncontested. For our purposes I am only proposing stealing the blinds from the Button, the Cutoff and the Hijack seat. For people who have been playing awhile, blind stealing is a very common and necessary strategy for tournaments. Blind stealing does have its place in cash games as well just not exactly the same as for tournament.
The first thing to realize about stealing blinds in cash games is that the blinds usually represent a minuscule portion of a players chip stack. That is to say when playing 5nl, with the blinds of .02/.05 the big blind is only equal to 1/100th of a full stack. This is in stark contrast to Tournaments where the blinds can represent a much larger percentage of the average players stacks depending on the stage of the tournament.
Then why do it you might ask? For a couple of reasons, the first of which is free money. If the blinds are weak tight players they will often surrender them without a fight even if they know you are stealing. Good players know that the blinds are just the cost of playing and won’t go crazy defending their blinds as they will be OOP (out of Position) the entire hand. Bad players will look at their cards and decide well J2o is too weak so I will fold. That is the first reason. Not very lucrative for sure but some players are so weak tight they will NEVER play back at a blind stealer with out a monster hand so if you find these players steal away.
The second reason why a player is going to want to engage in blind stealing is image manipulation. If the blinds know you are a blind stealer and are a somewhat thinking players they know you can’t always have a hand good enough to call a re-raise (3bet) so they will start 3-betting you light. Admittedly at the micro levels there aren’t a lot of thinking players but we all start somewhere and if you are going to be stealing blinds you need to understand how to counter it. Now we have a situation where the blinds think you are just a brazen thief and will steal with ATC, now is the time where with a little luck you can trap them into playing a big pot OOP.
Now you have been stealing the blinds are playing back at you, now is when you need to tighten back up. If you are lucky enough to pick up a big hand AA-JJ etc, and raise, the blinds could very well think you are just stealing again and will be 3betting you with a much wider range than they would typically have, now you can drop the hammer and 4-bet shove on them or smooth call and see a flop. Now because of you earlier thievery you have created a very favorable situation for yourself, playing a big pot in position.
It is important to note that just because the blinds might be playing back as you that don’t think they don’t have a big hand, there is no rule against the blinds being dealt wired Aces. As always with poker it depends is usually the correct answer will need to be paying attention to the your opponents play.
Above are a couple of reasons to steal, there are also reason/situations that you don’t want to steal. Don’t steal as often when the blinds call a lot if you aren’t a great post flop player. Don’t steal if you can make more money off of your opponents because you can outplay them post flop
I don't play or know much about 6-max so I not sure how much or if any of this applies there.
All right, here are my thoughts on stealing. If there is anything I left out got wrong etc let me know or start debating it.
Stealing
Stealing is open raising from late position with the intention of taking “Stealing” the blinds uncontested. For our purposes I am only proposing stealing the blinds from the Button, the Cutoff and the Hijack seat. For people who have been playing awhile, blind stealing is a very common and necessary strategy for tournaments. Blind stealing does have its place in cash games as well just not exactly the same as for tournament.
The first thing to realize about stealing blinds in cash games is that the blinds usually represent a minuscule portion of a players chip stack. That is to say when playing 5nl, with the blinds of .02/.05 the big blind is only equal to 1/100th of a full stack. This is in stark contrast to Tournaments where the blinds can represent a much larger percentage of the average players stacks depending on the stage of the tournament.
Then why do it you might ask? For a couple of reasons, the first of which is free money. If the blinds are weak tight players they will often surrender them without a fight even if they know you are stealing. Good players know that the blinds are just the cost of playing and won’t go crazy defending their blinds as they will be OOP (out of Position) the entire hand. Bad players will look at their cards and decide well J2o is too weak so I will fold. That is the first reason. Not very lucrative for sure but some players are so weak tight they will NEVER play back at a blind stealer with out a monster hand so if you find these players steal away.
The second reason why a player is going to want to engage in blind stealing is image manipulation. If the blinds know you are a blind stealer and are a somewhat thinking players they know you can’t always have a hand good enough to call a re-raise (3bet) so they will start 3-betting you light. Admittedly at the micro levels there aren’t a lot of thinking players but we all start somewhere and if you are going to be stealing blinds you need to understand how to counter it. Now we have a situation where the blinds think you are just a brazen thief and will steal with ATC, now is the time where with a little luck you can trap them into playing a big pot OOP.
Now you have been stealing the blinds are playing back at you, now is when you need to tighten back up. If you are lucky enough to pick up a big hand AA-JJ etc, and raise, the blinds could very well think you are just stealing again and will be 3betting you with a much wider range than they would typically have, now you can drop the hammer and 4-bet shove on them or smooth call and see a flop. Now because of you earlier thievery you have created a very favorable situation for yourself, playing a big pot in position.
It is important to note that just because the blinds might be playing back as you that don’t think they don’t have a big hand, there is no rule against the blinds being dealt wired Aces. As always with poker it depends is usually the correct answer will need to be paying attention to the your opponents play.
Above are a couple of reasons to steal, there are also reason/situations that you don’t want to steal. Don’t steal as often when the blinds call a lot if you aren’t a great post flop player. Don’t steal if you can make more money off of your opponents because you can outplay them post flop
I don't play or know much about 6-max so I not sure how much or if any of this applies there.
Could anyone explain 3-betting light, i.e. how light is light??
I find myself playing against players who I know to be stealers!! I know that to combat this I must 3 bet light.. what I am unsure of is :-
What hands are ok to play light preflop? or how light is light?
How my opponents stack size will affect my 3 betting light?
What frequency is considered optimal for 3-betting (I cant do it all of the time for fear of giving huge implied oddds to my opponents).
I am trying to 3-bet LIGHT but im not sure where light ends and air begins.
EDIT: BTW I know what 3-bet light means.. the question is about how to apply it!!
I find myself playing against players who I know to be stealers!! I know that to combat this I must 3 bet light.. what I am unsure of is :-
What hands are ok to play light preflop? or how light is light?
How my opponents stack size will affect my 3 betting light?
What frequency is considered optimal for 3-betting (I cant do it all of the time for fear of giving huge implied oddds to my opponents).
I am trying to 3-bet LIGHT but im not sure where light ends and air begins.
EDIT: BTW I know what 3-bet light means.. the question is about how to apply it!!
Thanks steve.
Another question regarding 3-betting.
At 10NL its pretty rare to see a 3-bet preflop. I have noticed that more often than not it represents AK.. I asume because players know it to be a good hand but are unsure of how to play it post flop.
A 3-bet is rarely called preflop in 10NL
So for my question.
If we 3-bet light then we must also 3-bet some of out larger hands too (AA, KK, QQ, AK maybe even JJ very occasionally) Do you think that the resteal value of 3-betting light out weighs the value lost by not getting these hand to play post flop. (At 10NL)
I cant remember the last time, in a cash game, when I actually got a caller to my standard raise when holding AA. But when 3-betting.. often I will be sacrificing additional money in the pot when I have position and a good chance of winning the pot postflop.
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
Another question regarding 3-betting.
At 10NL its pretty rare to see a 3-bet preflop. I have noticed that more often than not it represents AK.. I asume because players know it to be a good hand but are unsure of how to play it post flop.
A 3-bet is rarely called preflop in 10NL
So for my question.
If we 3-bet light then we must also 3-bet some of out larger hands too (AA, KK, QQ, AK maybe even JJ very occasionally) Do you think that the resteal value of 3-betting light out weighs the value lost by not getting these hand to play post flop. (At 10NL)
I cant remember the last time, in a cash game, when I actually got a caller to my standard raise when holding AA. But when 3-betting.. often I will be sacrificing additional money in the pot when I have position and a good chance of winning the pot postflop.
Anyone got any thoughts on this?
On a different tangent.
Has anyone read any good poker books lately?
Im going through HoH cash games. - I find it a good basic book that outlines a solid style of poker (does everyone else agree that Harringtons style of poker is a solid stratagy)
What I do find a negative is the examples.. I doubt there is a better way of explaining things like this but they are so long and wordy that I find myself reading for 20 minutes only to realise I have forgotten what I read!!.. I guess the key here is just keep re-reading it!!
The other thing is .. and this is a critasism of most poker books.. they dont really take you onto topics such as 3-betting, 4-betting, playing agaist ranges etc etc.
So has anyone read anything that they thought WOW that was interesting.. havnt seen that in print before.
Has anyone read any good poker books lately?
Im going through HoH cash games. - I find it a good basic book that outlines a solid style of poker (does everyone else agree that Harringtons style of poker is a solid stratagy)
What I do find a negative is the examples.. I doubt there is a better way of explaining things like this but they are so long and wordy that I find myself reading for 20 minutes only to realise I have forgotten what I read!!.. I guess the key here is just keep re-reading it!!
The other thing is .. and this is a critasism of most poker books.. they dont really take you onto topics such as 3-betting, 4-betting, playing agaist ranges etc etc.
So has anyone read anything that they thought WOW that was interesting.. havnt seen that in print before.
Stu_Ungar said:
Professional No limit hold'em is great for this. Specifically they teach in that book to plan your hand through, REM, Range (yours and your opponents), Equity, and then Maximazation. They also cover planing your hand around pot commitment and Stack to Pot Ratio. It is a gold mine that I have not been able to get everything out of YET....
Steveg1976 said:
You know I spent the last 10 minutes typing out my reply to that explaining that I just seem to fold out lesser hands when 3-betting and thus felt that 3-betting was less profitable than raising the flop.
Whilst typing that I realised that the reason I get no action with 3-bets is because I only do it with premium hands.. so I guess I have to loosen my 3-bet range.
I have been looking at the problem upside down. Rather than seeing the 3-bet as an extra way to steal and to block steals.. I have been looking at it as something that looses me value with premium hands.
I must look into this more
Steveg1976 said:
Thanks for the reconmendation ill get that.
Professional No-Limit Hold 'em: Volume I: 1: Amazon.co.uk: Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta, Ed Miller: Books
thats the one right?
WVHillbilly said:
My thoughts exactly. I've started in HoC like over 2 months ago and haven't really touched it again.
Like stu says the examples are pretty long winded and I agree it being not so relevant to micro stakes.
I have PNL on my book shelve. Maybe I should get started in that
Stu_Ungar said:
It really depends.
In general I've found 3-bets by otherwise reasonable players at $10NL usually mean AA/KK. A few will 3-bet QQ/JJ/AK. Note the qualification "reasonable" as there are always those that try to outmacho anyone who steps on their toes preflop.
Last night, my first attempt at 8 tables, I raised AK from the button, got 3-bet by the SB. I was tempted 4 bet, and I would have if I was fairly sure he was a good enough player to think that I might be raising light (I remember doing this with Dorkus once in a CC tourney) but here I just flat. Ace high flop, we get our stacks in, I'm afraid of AA but he had A4 suited. I hadn't noticed anything in his stats to indicate a maniac, and I hadn't been stealing mercilessly, so don't know what led to this.
Another table I somewhat suckered a 60BB player into getting in all in preflop when I had KK, though I thought when he shoved over my small 5-bet (he opened with a minraise) that he had AA as well, but he only had AQo.
So, it depends.
The danger in 3-betting light against a suspected stealer at cheaper levels is that he may not know how to let go, and you end up seeing a flop, both with less than premium hands and a big pot. Or you catch him that one time he actually has a hand.
The one stack I lost last night was 3-betting a loose-aggressive player with AK from the BB. Ace high flop, but he had raised/flatted my 3-bet with 99 and hit a set.
