Integrity Check - How can an online poker room make you feel secure these days?

Gutshot Gus · Feb 10, 2024

Gutshot Gus said:
I take privacy in my house as one of the last things that social media and government has no business being in.

Who wants to see a fat and ugly old man sitting around in his skivvies scratchin'?

Toruk Makto · Feb 10, 2024

The site should always be under review, so that there is no sabotage by malicious players.

Gdefender · Feb 11, 2024

I don't think that the operators of the poker sites can do much to reassure the players... Nowadays, fraudulent programs, hacking, etc. topics are starting to come to light... However, I have noticed for more than 10 years, which has unfortunately become commonplace, that completely unlucky sites take most of the pots on the tables, and the question about robot programs has been raised for a long time....Actually, in my heart, I would never play with an "online program", but the lack of time and the comfortable playing environment at home attract the majority of people to online games ..As for the cheats, I don't think they could calm me down with anything, that's why I only play at a hobby level...

Dmitriy_rus7 · Feb 11, 2024

I think they already do a lot to make people feel safe playing poker online. if all this were doubtful, tens of thousands of people would stop playing online, but since people continue, it means not everything is so bad

bapfel · Feb 11, 2024

Sometimes I feel unsecure when on a site like GG Poker you play often a 3 or 6 player spin or gold and you have two or more players from the same country on one table, especially from China or Russia.. I think it could be a "crime band" working together.
Myself I try not to collect too big bankrolls on a page, so cash out every few months and do not deposit big amounts.

Reload · Feb 11, 2024

It's really difficult when you go search some new room, and leave places like PokerStars, acr, etc, and have sure that they play fair.
For me, the main thing is that when you win, you get easily your money, without any obstacles or difficult steps just to withdraw it.
Nowadays is sure that is so much more easy to rip off your money, so be careful.

antonis32123 · Feb 11, 2024

The poker rooms don't really want to eliminate bots and colludors and scammers/cheaters . If they ever decide to do so , they would be able to eliminate most cheaters . Excuses for advances AI solvers or assistance are not serious . There are ways to fight and minimise the total effect of these advanced AI scamming tools , the poker rooms lack the determination to do so .

Natta777 · Feb 12, 2024

I love poker too much and I try to ignore all the talk about bots and cheating. I always hope that the poker room security service does its job efficiently and detects fraud. They also conduct checks on players regularly. As for the cameras, I believe that this should happen at the request of the player, but not in any way forced.

fundiver199 · Feb 12, 2024

antonis32123 said:
The poker rooms don't really want to eliminate bots and colludors and scammers/cheaters .

Why would they not want to do that? Nearly all rooms have taken measures to "level the playing field" in the hope to attract and retain more net depositing players, since at the end of the day, they are the only reason, why rooms (or winning players) make money. PokerStars for instance has limited cash game players to 4 regular tables and also introduced something, they call a "dymanic waiting list". Which mean, that in order to go on a waiting list for a specific table, a player must accept a vacant seat on a similar table chosen by PokerStars.

These steps have clearly limited multitabling in cash games, and in themselfes reduced rake generation. But PokerStars have done it anyway, because they think, the reduced volume from regulars is compensated by more volume from net depositors. And if this is their way of thinking, then why on earth would they not want to eliminate any kind of cheating including the use of bots? Such a statement makes no sense at all. But of course just because sites would like to eliminate cheating, does not mean, they are achieving this goal 100%.

But with that being said I play on PokerStars almost every day. Mostly 5-10$ SnGs and 3,3-11$ MTTs. And my honest opinion is, that cheating in these games are extremely limited. I dont think, the regs are using bots, because they tend to have slightly different stats, and I also think, PokerStars have ways to detect the use of bots, which makes it at least difficult to get away with. Of course I cant know for sure, since the regs are not chatting. But I certainly dont sit every day and worry about getting cheated.

Sebbour · Feb 12, 2024

CRStals said:
There has been a lot of news around bots and cheating in online poker again. Does this make you question the integrity of the sites you that you choose to play? What can poker sites do to make you feel secure in playing there?

Since I'm playing mostly freerolls and micro buy ins I feel pretty much secure. I deposited only once in my life (and that was minimum so that I can withdraw the money from client) so I'm really relaxed with it (if I'd play for serious money I would be in same state as I'm now).

So, to answer the question, poker sites where I play cannot do much more to feel me more secure because I feel secured already.

antonis32123 · Feb 12, 2024

fundiver199 said:
Why would they not want to do that? Nearly all rooms have taken measures to "level the playing field" in the hope to attract and retain more net depositing players, since at the end of the day, they are the only reason, why rooms (or winning players) make money. .................................................................................................... But I certainly dont sit every day and worry about getting cheated.

i play very small stakes , many times less than a dollar . i don't believe rng behaves in a different way towards me , worse than you or anyone else that [plays more games and more expensive . so bad beats , bad rng results are universal . my problem is also many others'
when i play higher stakes , like $11 or $109 , cr**y bad beat results are worse

i will not talk about many , actually countless profiles in many poker rooms that make strange decisions . many of them might be bots . they disappear overnight . i have a special tag colour for suspected poker room bots , i see that most of these ''players'' cannot be seen again , strangely they disappear , even in microstakes .

if you have played online a lot , you know what i am talking about . and if you play a lot you must have faced more scammers or suspected bots than me , you must have noticed stange fixed rng results . if you defend a poker room , i wonder why you might be doing it .

if i see these crazy rng results or the system bots or player bots , if i see that poker room does nothing to change it , then i will not deposit on that poker room , i will not increase my gaming volume , i will not play higher stakes . other way would be meaningless .

the bad beats are killing me , my game sessions , my time , my $$$$$ bankroll . i cannot tolerate it . and i cannot tolerate ''players'' who try to defend a poker room . so many scams out there . meaningless to fight about whether there are bots or not . whether it is rigged or not . personally i am not stupid . i know what my eyes see . i know some things about odds . I see that the rng results on the long run do not respect odds logic , i see specific underdog hands winning most of the times or all times if there are enough players in the pot or when pot odds are good enough . then crazy calls get rewarded , most of the times . With good pot odds you might decide to take a risk with a marginal hand , but if you do this with 100bbs or more or in crazy spots and you win and if this win happens most of the times or almost every time , not just 20% or 30% or whatever of the times , then sth is clearly wrong .

also if bad beats happen early in a tourney or in small stakes and unimportant games is not as harmless as when this happens late in a tourney or in higher stakes or in crucial spots . unfortunately the bad beats happen most of the times in my case late in a tourney or in my most expensive buy ins . this is at least weird if not sth worse . this gives food to speech about rigged theories or scam rng

online poker is a scam . i am sorry to admit it . i know winners will defend the poker room , fish must remain in the poker ecosystem , in the tank . i know some people get paid by a poker room , directly or indirectly . why should i pay attention to their comments ??

fundiver199 · Feb 12, 2024

antonis32123 said:
i play very small stakes , many times less than a dollar . i don't believe rng behaves in a different way towards me , worse than you or anyone else that [plays more games and more expensive . so bad beats , bad rng results are universal . my problem is also many others'
when i play higher stakes , like $11 or $109 , cr**y bad beat results are worse

i will not talk about many , actually countless profiles in many poker rooms that make strange decisions . many of them might be bots . they disappear overnight . i have a special tag colour for suspected poker room bots , i see that most of these ''players'' cannot be seen again , strangely they disappear , even in microstakes .

if you have played online a lot , you know what i am talking about . and if you play a lot you must have faced more scammers or suspected bots than me , you must have noticed stange fixed rng results . if you defend a poker room , i wonder why you might be doing it .

if i see these crazy rng results or the system bots or player bots , if i see that poker room does nothing to change it , then i will not deposit on that poker room , i will not increase my gaming volume , i will not play higher stakes . other way would be meaningless .

the bad beats are killing me , my game sessions , my time , my $$$$$ bankroll . i cannot tolerate it . and i cannot tolerate ''players'' who try to defend a poker room . so many scams out there . meaningless to fight about whether there are bots or not . whether it is rigged or not . personally i am not stupid . i know what my eyes see . i know some things about odds . I see that the rng results on the long run do not respect odds logic , i see specific underdog hands winning most of the times or all times if there are enough players in the pot or when pot odds are good enough . then crazy calls get rewarded , most of the times . With good pot odds you might decide to take a risk with a marginal hand , but if you do this with 100bbs or more or in crazy spots and you win and if this win happens most of the times or almost every time , not just 20% or 30% or whatever of the times , then sth is clearly wrong .

also if bad beats happen early in a tourney or in small stakes and unimportant games is not as harmless as when this happens late in a tourney or in higher stakes or in crucial spots . unfortunately the bad beats happen most of the times in my case late in a tourney or in my most expensive buy ins . this is at least weird if not sth worse . this gives food to speech about rigged theories or scam rng

online poker is a scam . i am sorry to admit it . i know winners will defend the poker room , fish must remain in the poker ecosystem , in the tank . i know some people get paid by a poker room , directly or indirectly . why should i pay attention to their comments ??

Just because you have not had success in online poker, does not mean, its all one giant scam. As discussed earlier in this thread, online poker is not a "get rich quick and easy" scheme. But while the majority per definition has to lose in a zero sum game with rake, there are plenty on long term winners. I have won $9,577 in tournaments on Pokerstars according to sharkscope, and this does not include any rakeback (which I dont get) or cash game winnings.

SharkScope - Online Poker Statistics

Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks. SharkScope is the most complete database of poker tournament results available and covers virtually all online poker sites.

www.sharkscope.com

I dont even want to calculate my hourly winrate, but at least its higher than the one, you get from playing freerolls or watching movies. Or check out the graphs of some of the SnG regs from the leaderboard. This guy is up $2.410 for the year, which is a pretty decent income in South East Asia, where he live.

SharkScope - Online Poker Statistics

Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks. SharkScope is the most complete database of poker tournament results available and covers virtually all online poker sites.

www.sharkscope.com

He has achieved this by simply playing a lot: 7.247 games, which is almost 200 games per day. And I bet you, he dont have time to worry about bad beats or the RNG. He know, that it all levels out in the long run. And this is the mentality, you also need to adobt, if you want to espace the "freeroll trap" and become a winning player.

antonis32123 · Feb 12, 2024

fundiver199 said:
Just because you have not had success in online poker, does not mean, its all one giant scam. As discussed earlier in this thread, online poker is not a "get rich quick and easy" scheme. But while the majority per definition has to lose in a zero sum game with rake, there are plenty on long term winners. I have won $9,577 in tournaments on Pokerstars according to Sharkscope, and this does not include any rakeback (which I dont get) or cash game winnings.

SharkScope - Online Poker Statistics

Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks. SharkScope is the most complete database of poker tournament results available and covers virtually all online poker sites.

www.sharkscope.com

I dont even want to calculate my hourly winrate, but at least its higher than the one, you get from playing freerolls or watching movies. Or check out the graphs of some of the SnG regs from the leaderboard. This guy is up $2.410 for the year, which is a pretty decent income in South East Asia, where he live.

SharkScope - Online Poker Statistics

Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks. SharkScope is the most complete database of poker tournament results available and covers virtually all online poker sites.

www.sharkscope.com

He has achieved this by simply playing a lot: 7.247 games, which is almost 200 games per day. And I bet you, he dont have time to worry about bad beats or the RNG. He know, that it all levels out in the long run. And this is the mentality, you also need to adobt, if you want to espace the "freeroll trap" and become a winning player.

The answer to your comments about stakes is in the first paragraph of my previous post .

The sun is shining , the sky is blue . I am not 10 , 15 or 20 years old . I am not naive . If I say black and you say white , clearly we cannot agree .

If you haven't noticed innumerable bots , countless fixed rigged RNG results , innumerable cases of players manipulating rng with specific betting decisions ( specific number of chips or BBs for ex ) , then the only thing I can say to you is "" good luck "" ...........

Station_Master · Feb 12, 2024

antonis32123 said:
The answer to your comments about stakes is in the first paragraph of my previous post .

The sun is shining , the sky is blue . I am not 10 , 15 or 20 years old . I am not naive . If I say black and you say white , clearly we cannot agree .

If you haven't noticed innumerable bots , countless fixed rigged RNG results , innumerable cases of players manipulating rng with specific betting decisions ( specific number of chips or BBs for ex ) , then the only thing I can say to you is "" good luck "" ...........

Honestly I have not noticed innumerable bots at low and microstakes. A bot would be programmed to play good poker, whereas most of my opponents play badly. Sure some of the regs are ok but they have their leaks too.

As for using specific bet sizes to manipulate the RNG I think this is in your head!

Bad beats are part of the game and will happen a reasonable amount as per the odds. Obviously though these are the hands you remember. Over 10,000 hands you will get cooled many times, this is just how the games works.

fundiver199 · Feb 12, 2024

Station_Master said:
Bad beats are part of the game and will happen a reasonable amount as per the odds. Obviously though these are the hands you remember.

Exactly. When the best hand hold up, our expectations are just met, so we quickly forget about it. But when it dont hold up, there is a disconnect between our expectations and the actual outcome, and this tend to create an emotional reaction. The truth is, if our AA hold 5 times in a row against another hand, then we ran above the statistical mean, so we got lucky. But we tend to not perceive it that way.

mclay · Feb 12, 2024

This is a very serious problem for online poker, and if large poker rooms are still trying to fight this, then for small ones it is even beneficial, because bots give them more rake.

ObbleeXY · Feb 12, 2024

I'd like to play only vs validated human users. Call it the "blood-red tick".
At least then I can play against non-validated humans as if they are bots.
You can trick/beat bots when you know they're a bot....but it isn't easy to tell.
we used to be able to determine this by encouraging chat. Previously, bots never engaged in chat. Now if bots are integrated wiuth CHAT GPT, then using this method (of chatting) to identify bots will be lost.

In the end, I'm playing fewer games online and depositing less cash across sites as the scourge of the bot continues to grow. We have zero visibility of what sites are actually doing to prevent this. From their point of view, if the presence of bots isn't actively driving down player niumbers, they probably won't be investing much time, effort or money into eradicating the problem.
I fear that this has already gone too far, and once regular players wake up to this fact, there will be a mass exodus from the current poker sites.

It's high time that the sites started telling us about what they're doing.

Cheers,
JT

machinm19 · Feb 12, 2024

I would feel more secure if I buried my head in the sand and pretended super users do not exist. There is a reason PokerStars is based in Costa Rica and 888 in Gibraltar and it’s not the weather 😉 once super users came into existence only a blind and dumb fool would believe they just vanished and stopped doing it. That being said wherever money is then cheats and scammers will follow, I just see cheaters as a standard part of the game especially online but people cheat live too.

antonis32123 · Feb 12, 2024

Station_Master said:
Honestly I have not noticed innumerable bots at low and microstakes. A bot would be programmed to play good poker, whereas most of my opponents play badly. Sure some of the regs are ok but they have their leaks too.

As for using specific bet sizes to manipulate the RNG I think this is in your head!

Bad beats are part of the game and will happen a reasonable amount as per the odds. Obviously though these are the hands you remember. Over 10,000 hands you will get cooled many times, this is just how the games works.

Suns of Beaches said:
Zero chance someone who writes something like this and uses grammar and . , like this has the mental ability to win longterm @ poker. Bad beats on 11 and 109 dollar buy-ins are not worse, that is only in ur imagination. Its the exact same game/hands being dealt. The only difference for u is that u are completely dead money in the long run playing these buy-ins.

If its all a scam why do u still play after all these years? Takes a very special person to continue playing a game where u feel u are getting cheated at.

I would talk with friends and familly about it and maybe check places near u to get the help u desperately need.

fundiver199 · Feb 12, 2024

machinm19 said:
once super users came into existence only a blind and dumb fool would believe they just vanished and stopped doing it.

You make it sound like, "superusers" is some sort of special species, that suddenly appeared out of nowhere. But they are just cheaters, like there have been cheaters in live poker at all times. 17 years ago, in the early days on online poker, some employees at Absolute Poker / Ultimate Bet found a security leak and took advantage of it. The company went out of business a few years later. Now in 2024 there has been a case at GG Poker, where one or more users not related to GG Poker had found another security leak and took advantage of it. Its disappointing, that GG Poker did not have better security, but presumably they have fixed the problem now.

And just because we have had these two known cases in almost 25 years of online poker, does not mean, that everyone playing online poker have been cheated by superusers. Just as everyone, who have played on live steams, have not been cheated, just because Mike Postle did it on the Stones stream, where security was really lousy. I 2022 there was a lot of noise about Garrett Adelstein thinking, he had been cheated on the Hustler live stream. But most likely his opponent Robbi just misread her hand and thought, she had bottom pair rather than J high.

ficticius · Feb 12, 2024

Carrying out manual tests and random questions that an artificial intelligence does not know how to perform or answer every half hour

Bummy · Feb 12, 2024

In my opinion, there should be identification by phone number or other confirming method. At the very least, there should also be some kind of bot tracking system/or complaint system for suspicions that a given member is a bot.

machinm19 · Feb 12, 2024

Suns of Beaches said:
The reason why pokerstars and 888 are located where they are located are taxes and not some other conspiracy stuff 😆

U seem to like to repeat urself over and over with ur superuser posts. Portaying urself as the guy who knows it all while others are "dumb and blind". Its actually pretty comical to everyone who ever played against "Hungartaker" in the cc games on party.View attachment 353582

So let me ask u this: Why should anyone care about someones opinion about online poker if said person can barely hold a mouse? 😉

Suns of Beaches said:

The reason why pokerstars and 888 are located where they are located are taxes and not some other conspiracy stuff 😆

U seem to like to repeat urself over and over with ur superuser posts. Portaying urself as the guy who knows it all while others are "dumb and blind". Its actually pretty comical to everyone who ever played against "Hungartaker" in the cc games on party.View attachment 353582

So let me ask u this: Why should anyone care about someones opinion about online poker if said person can barely hold a mouse? 😉

Click to expand...

Are you talking about the CC freerolls that I have won on party a few times? How many times did you win? The reason I repeat about super users is because they never went away. All sites have them. When I hear the word conspiracy I just picture some dumb moron with a mask on hiding from an imaginary disease . Those sites are based in dodgy places so they conveniently do not have to comply with gambling laws but since you’re the treasurer of 888 and say it’s taxes you must be right 🤫

machinm19 · Feb 12, 2024

fundiver199 said:
You make it sound like, "superusers" is some sort of special species, that suddenly appeared out of nowhere. But they are just cheaters, like there have been cheaters in live poker at all times. 17 years ago, in the early days on online poker, some employees at Absolute Poker / Ultimate Bet found a security leak and took advantage of it. The company went out of business a few years later. Now in 2024 there has been a case at GG Poker, where one or more users not related to GG Poker had found another security leak and took advantage of it. Its disappointing, that GG Poker did not have better security, but presumably they have fixed the problem now.

And just because we have had these two known cases in almost 25 years of online poker, does not mean, that everyone playing online poker have been cheated by superusers. Just as everyone, who have played on live steams, have not been cheated, just because Mike Postle did it on the Stones stream, where security was really lousy. I 2022 there was a lot of noise about Garrett Adelstein thinking, he had been cheated on the Hustler live stream. But most likely his opponent Robbi just misread her hand and thought, she had bottom pair rather than J high.

Exactly my point. Only 2 cases in 20 odd years when the super user technology is proven and written in most sites terms and conditions. It stinks. I also agree their is cheating live too just like their is cheating in crypto or anywhere where money flows.

Station_Master · Feb 12, 2024

888 is based in Gibraltar and is a publically listed company on th UK stock exchange. Why is that dodgy?

Inevitably Gibraltar has a more favourable tax regime for this type of company and hence it is based there. They will comply with the rules in Gibraltar that are inevitably more relaxed than many other countries. This is just business sense and doesnt make the site any more 'dodgy'.

Integrity Check - How can an online poker room make you feel secure these days?

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