ACR Poker Withholding $92k Balance & Forcing $15k+ in Rake to Withdraw
I actually think, its fairly clear, what happened. ACR have a poker rake requirement before withdrawing, which is 10% of money deposited or won from a sportsbet. And apparently the latter is total cashes from sportsbetting rather than net profit. So if you deposit $500, place sportsbets for all the money and win $400, now you will need to generate $500+400 * 0,1 = $90 in poker rake, before you can withdraw your remaining $400.Sunz of Beaches said:
The problem is, that this ItalianIce guy did not read the T&C, even though he surely had to check a box, that he read and understood them, when he signed up. So this is an unpleasant surprice to him, since he only signed up to place sportsbets and probably dont even know how to play poker. Or at least have no intention of putting in the kind of volume or play the kind of stakes needed to generate $15k in rake.
This is true, except that they have a reputation to protect, if they want to have players in the future. And based on my personal experience being regulated does not mean, a site is better at letting people withdraw their money. All my withdrawals on ACR Poker have been processed within hours, but when I recently tried to withdraw a very small amount of $130 from 888 Poker, it took 3 weeks, and it was a bureaucratic nightmare with basically non-excisting customer service.hardongear said:
So in my experience, and also from reports from many other players here and in other poker forums, getting money out of 888 Poker is far more difficult than getting money out of ACR. If it had dragged out further, I could have escalated the case to the swedish gambling authority, since 888 Poker is licensed in Sweden. But frankly I would rather deal with a site like ACR, that just pay people rather than need to get authorities involved to get $130 back. And I am sure, authorities would also rather spend time on something else.
So I have to agree with Sunz of Beaches, that ACR is generally a trustworthy site, where its fine to have money sitting. But of course it should not be more, than you need for the games, you are planning to play. It would be stupid to deposit $30k or even leave $30k on the site to play $10 tournaments or 25NL cash games. And if you want to play the most expensive tournaments like the Venom, then for sure you want to play some other games first to get familiar with the site and also verify, that you have a way to withdraw money.
ACR Poker is not a sportsbetting site. Its literally in their name, and they spell it out so clearly in their T&C, that it should be pretty impossible for anyone to not understand it, if they actually read the T&C. The whole point of these T&C is, that they are not interested in doing business with someone, who are betting only on sports. So they are not looking to make it "fair" for that kind of player, they are looking to keep them away.firerain said:
And lets be real now. Its very difficult to imagine, that a random recreational player would think, it might be fun to deposit $30k out of his savings and place sports bets for $62k on his favourite football teams, and then saw a site with Poker in its name as the most obviously place to do that. So he is almost certainly someone, who is betting on sports professionally and trying to find edges against the sites moving his money around from site to site using crypto.
17.1 POKER-FIRST PLATFORM MANDATE & CASHOUT RAKE REQUIREMENT
17.1.1 PRIMARY BUSINESS MANDATE: ACR Poker provides the Sportsbook exclusively as an auxiliary recreational amenity for active poker players.
17.1.2 MANDATORY 10% POKER RAKE REQUIREMENT: All deposits and sportsbook returns are subject to generating a minimum 10% poker rake (or paid tournament fees) relative to cumulative deposits prior to withdrawal approval.
17.1.3 NON-EQUIVALENCE: Sportsbook handle and wagering volume do not generate poker rake and do not count toward fulfilling this cashout requirement.
Or he could grind the most expensive Spin & Gos. Thats probably the fastest way to generate rake, and you get a lot of it back from the reward program and weekly SnG leaderboard.puzzlefish said:
Like I said I've had no trouble with ACR either for the little amount I deposited and near $750 I end up withdrawing. That doesn't change the fact the site is unregulated so there's zero accountability and they can make it as hard or as easy as they want too get large sums of money on and off the site. Too each their own I'm more carefully with my money then most, who I trust with my money then most and certainly not your avg dumbass poker player when it comes to his money. Too each their own.fundiver199 said:
Cheers!!!
That is true, but this debate about "unregulated" vs. "regulated" sites is often a lot more simplified than reality. Usually the term "unregulated" or "offshore" is used about sites, that operate illegally in specifically the USA. But most sites operate without a license in parts of the world. GG Poker for instance has a license in a few places mainly in Europa.hardongear said:
But the vast majority of people playing on GG Poker live in countries, where GG Poker operate just as illegally, as ACR do in the USA. And all these players from China, Russia, Japan and so on and so forth can also not go to an authority in their own country, if they have a problem with GG Poker. Here in Sweden GG Poker operated illegally until june 2026, even though there was a licensing regime in place since 2019.
Most countries have still not made online poker legal, so either there are no laws about it (grey market), or its outright illegal. And if you live in such a country, you have no other choise than playing on an "unregulated site". As far as I know, online poker is not illegal in countries like Brasil, Argentina or Mexico, but I strongly dought, there is much player protection from local authorities.
I think it's pretty simple for anyone smart with their money.........yes that would be the minority of the human race and poker players(also me). You don't play on unregulated sites and if you do you don't deposit large sums of money and you should likely expect to get a hard time withdrawing larger sums of money when you do win simply because they can make it hard as they want with no accountability. And when I want my money I don't want to have a hard time getting it other then having clearing the deposit bonus which I understand why sites they have them. If I'm going to fight and have a hard time getting my money I may as well just go play at my local casino put up drunks, morons and rude jackasses that's just as fun as having to fight and have a hard time getting paid and the games are way softer with zero concerns of getting paid or getting a hard time being paid.fundiver199 said:
Thankfully I live and Canada(not Ontario) so have many options of where I can play or not play. If I wanted to play poker and deposit a large sum of money say 25k+ I'd trust only 1 site and 1 site only.......Pokerstars. They've always been the least shady of every site and I've had problems yet with withdraws up too $7500. In fact I've NEVER even had ever use Pokerstars support for anything not once over my many years of playing there. Which is good cause I hear their support now completely sucks.....way back when before the site was sold I heard it use be top notch.
Cheers!!!
ACR have been around for 25 years. Most pros have an account there and play big events like the Venom. And they generally dont face problems withdrawing even large sums, when they win. If they did, we would for sure have heard about it. So I think, you are painting a very bleak picture, which has little to do with reality. In this case the issue was clearly the 10% poker rake requirement (17.1.2), which the player had failed to inform himself about before depositing and placing sports bets.hardongear said:
But this is a completely transparent requirement. They even took the time to calculate, exactly hos much it would be for him, and informed him about it. By contrast GG Poker has a similar "play through requirement", but its unspecified. So in theory GG Poker can deny any withdrawal completely at their discretion citing this part of their T&C. And the player wont even know, how much more they need to play, before they will potentially be allowed to withdraw.
Yes for you specifically there might be better options than ACR. When you can play on sites like PokerStars and GG Poker, there is not much reason to play cash games on ACR. Volume is low, and the tables are full of players from Russia and other countries in Eastern Europe. I mainly play on ACR for their SnG leaderboard. If they end that promotion, which have been running for years, I would likely not play much there.hardongear said:
I might also trust some other sites, but PokerStars is definetely the most trustworthy site, where I would worry the least about having a large amount of money sitting.hardongear said:
I couldn't careless what most pro players do people give them way more credit then they deserve when it comes to being smarter then they actually are. Yes a lot them are great and really know how to think poker at the highest level.......otherwise many of them away from the table and when not playing poker seemingly have the IQ of an egg plant about most things.fundiver199 said:
Agree completely on the OP's situation. He needs to be smarter and is mostly if not completely responsible his own situation here.
If I didn't have better options I still would NEVER deposit a larger amount of money on an unregulated site. But then I'm in the minority of people who are smart with their money and disciplined enough not too compromise.
Cheers!!!
@hardongear
I think we got ur point and its definitely not a bad idea to be careful in general but again:
Ur argument of "never deposit a large amount on unregulated sites" does only really count for people who either dont have their account verified, do not plan on playing with that money, try to deposit dirty money or do some other shady stuff.
There are obv many people who move around big amounts on those sites with zero issues. So called midstakes or high stakes regulars, tournament players who want to play a large series. If it would be really that dangerous to deposit large sums on ACR why are there no frequent and regular reports about it from those players mentioned? 2+2 and twitter would be full of it but they are not.
I think we got ur point and its definitely not a bad idea to be careful in general but again:
Ur argument of "never deposit a large amount on unregulated sites" does only really count for people who either dont have their account verified, do not plan on playing with that money, try to deposit dirty money or do some other shady stuff.
There are obv many people who move around big amounts on those sites with zero issues. So called midstakes or high stakes regulars, tournament players who want to play a large series. If it would be really that dangerous to deposit large sums on ACR why are there no frequent and regular reports about it from those players mentioned? 2+2 and twitter would be full of it but they are not.
You didn't and neither did ACR's team. It was badly written. It's written better under 6.1.2fundiver199 said:
"6.1.2 MANDATORY 10% POKER RAKE REQUIREMENT: To qualify for a withdrawal of any funds (including initial deposit balances, sportsbook winnings, casino payouts, or racebook returns), all account holders—regardless of primary gaming vertical—must generate accumulated poker rake (or paid tournament fees) equal to at least ten percent (10%) of their total cumulative deposit value prior to withdrawal authorization."
What 17.1.2 "All deposits and sportsbook returns are subject to generating a minimum 10% poker rake (or paid tournament fees) relative to cumulative deposits prior to withdrawal approval." is actually saying is that you can't withdraw deposits or sportsbook returns until you rake 10% of your deposit. Not that you must rake 10% of your sportsbook winnings.
It's easier to read when you break it into two parts:
"All deposits and sportsbook returns are subject to generating a minimum 10% poker rake"
"relative to cumulative deposits prior to withdrawal approval."
The ACR team screwed up when they told him he needed to rake ~17k.
It does indeed seem like, customer support misunderstood the terms, and that the 10% rake requirement is only on deposits and not winnings of any kind. The CEO of ACR has clarified the matter by posting the text below on X. However this misunderstanding from support does not change the core of the issue, which is, that this player failed to read the T&C before making a very large deposit of $30k. When he tried to withdraw, he had likely generated $0 in poker rake, so the issue was not, if the rake requirement was $3k or $15k.
And since its now hopefully clear to everyone, what the terms are, and also why, maybe we can end this thread? In my opinion this is a very low quality thread, which should not have been posted. OP does not know this player, or what happened. And its not important to anyone here, since this is not a sportsbetting forum, its a poker forum. OP himself mainly play freerolls on 888 Poker, so he likely does not even have an account on ACR, and if he does, he never deposit. So this was likely only posted for the sake of posting and maintaining his platinum status, so he can continue to play freerolls.
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I've been following the discussion around ACR's sportsbook and withdrawals, and I want to clear up several things directly. First, ACR does not have a liquidity problem. We have a long history of paying our players, and nothing about this situation changes that. ACR is, first and foremost, a poker company. Sportsbook, Casino and our other products are secondary services we offer to our poker customers.
For a long time, ACR has required players to generate poker rake equal to 10% of their deposits before withdrawing. That requirement exists in part because we're a poker-first business, and it also helps prevent our platform from being used simply as a vehicle for moving money in and immediately back out. After experiencing significant coordinated professional sportsbook activity, including organized betting syndicates using ACR primarily as a standalone sportsbook, we extended that requirement across our auxiliary products.
I also need to acknowledge where we got this wrong in the case currently being discussed. Some of our Customer Service representatives misunderstood how the requirement should be calculated and gave the player an incorrect figure based on his sportsbook winnings. That was wrong. The requirement is based on 10% of the player's deposits — not 10% of his winnings. I apologize to the player for the incorrect information and the confusion our communication caused.
That's on us, and we're addressing it internally so our teams communicate this policy clearly and consistently going forward. What has never been communicated to this player is that ACR will not pay him. We will. The same published requirement applies here: the player must generate poker rake equal to 10% of the applicable deposit amount. Once that requirement and our normal account requirements are satisfied, his withdrawal can be processed. We understand that some people may disagree with that policy. That's fair.
But disagreement with a withdrawal requirement is very different from ACR being unable or unwilling to pay its players. We're also reviewing the wording across our Terms & Conditions, help materials and Customer Service procedures so that there is no ambiguity about what is required, how it is calculated or when it applies. We should have communicated this particular case better from the beginning, and I apologize for that. But to be absolutely clear: this is not a liquidity issue, and ACR is not refusing to pay this player.
Phil Nagy
CEO, ACR Poker
And since its now hopefully clear to everyone, what the terms are, and also why, maybe we can end this thread? In my opinion this is a very low quality thread, which should not have been posted. OP does not know this player, or what happened. And its not important to anyone here, since this is not a sportsbetting forum, its a poker forum. OP himself mainly play freerolls on 888 Poker, so he likely does not even have an account on ACR, and if he does, he never deposit. So this was likely only posted for the sake of posting and maintaining his platinum status, so he can continue to play freerolls.
....................................................................................................................................
I've been following the discussion around ACR's sportsbook and withdrawals, and I want to clear up several things directly. First, ACR does not have a liquidity problem. We have a long history of paying our players, and nothing about this situation changes that. ACR is, first and foremost, a poker company. Sportsbook, Casino and our other products are secondary services we offer to our poker customers.
For a long time, ACR has required players to generate poker rake equal to 10% of their deposits before withdrawing. That requirement exists in part because we're a poker-first business, and it also helps prevent our platform from being used simply as a vehicle for moving money in and immediately back out. After experiencing significant coordinated professional sportsbook activity, including organized betting syndicates using ACR primarily as a standalone sportsbook, we extended that requirement across our auxiliary products.
I also need to acknowledge where we got this wrong in the case currently being discussed. Some of our Customer Service representatives misunderstood how the requirement should be calculated and gave the player an incorrect figure based on his sportsbook winnings. That was wrong. The requirement is based on 10% of the player's deposits — not 10% of his winnings. I apologize to the player for the incorrect information and the confusion our communication caused.
That's on us, and we're addressing it internally so our teams communicate this policy clearly and consistently going forward. What has never been communicated to this player is that ACR will not pay him. We will. The same published requirement applies here: the player must generate poker rake equal to 10% of the applicable deposit amount. Once that requirement and our normal account requirements are satisfied, his withdrawal can be processed. We understand that some people may disagree with that policy. That's fair.
But disagreement with a withdrawal requirement is very different from ACR being unable or unwilling to pay its players. We're also reviewing the wording across our Terms & Conditions, help materials and Customer Service procedures so that there is no ambiguity about what is required, how it is calculated or when it applies. We should have communicated this particular case better from the beginning, and I apologize for that. But to be absolutely clear: this is not a liquidity issue, and ACR is not refusing to pay this player.
Phil Nagy
CEO, ACR Poker
I would agree if someone is putting a large sum of money on any site, then you absolutely should read and understand the withdrawal requirements for any online site. However, ACR Poker (WPN) has section 6.1 in the same T&C also details the withdrawal requirements:fundiver199 said:
Terms & Conditions
Discover the Terms & Conditions for using ACR Poker's client software. Access the online poker games and play with real money or play money.
www.acrpoker.eu
6.1 PRIMARY PRODUCT MANDATE & MANDATORY POKER RAKE REQUIREMENT
6.1.1 PRIMARY BUSINESS MANDATE: The Winning Poker Network is primarily a peer-to-peer online poker cardroom. Auxiliary products including Sportsbook, Casino, and Racebook are provided strictly as recreational value-add amenities for active poker players.
6.1.2 MANDATORY 10% POKER RAKE REQUIREMENT: To qualify for a withdrawal of any funds (including initial deposit balances, sportsbook winnings, casino payouts, or racebook returns), all account holders—regardless of primary gaming vertical—must generate accumulated poker rake (or paid tournament fees) equal to at least ten percent (10%) of their total cumulative deposit value prior to withdrawal authorization.
6.1.3 NON-EQUIVALENCE OF AUXILIARY WAGERING: Wagering activity in the Sportsbook, Casino, or Racebook—regardless of handle, volume, or hold—does NOT count toward, reduce, or substitute for the mandatory 10% Poker Rake Requirement. Auxiliary wagers do not generate poker rake and will not clear an account for payout processing.
Section 6.1.2 states that you need to generate 10% poker rake of the deposit to allow the end user to withdraw the funds. It is similar to what Phil Nagy mentioned in the 'X' space discussion a couple of weeks ago.
I would be confused if I reviewed sections 6.1 and 17.1 in the T&Cs.
Absolutely. I am guessing, they added 17.1 later and failed to notice, it is different from 6.1. This is definitely something, they need to clean up, so there is no ambiguity. By the way according to postings on X they paid the guy his full balance without playing any poker, presumably to avoid more bad publicity. So he got, what he wanted, when he went public with his story.firerain said: