Phil Ivey doesn't receive his WSOP earnings but the US Marshal's office does

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It is sad to see, if the premise for it is true that he cheated on a baccarat game at the Bogata. I tend to agree with his response that it was Bogata's choice to use the card deck they chose and if by that choice anyone gains an advantage, it is on Bogata and not Phil Ivey!


Or any other player at the table, for that matter! It would be no different than being at a Craps table and noticing that one of the dice felt unequally weighted and through that gaining an advantage at the table!

casinos should have the responsibility of insuring that the odds are fair to all players!

That is my humble opinion on the issue.
 
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If they had the rules before game started they lose phil wins. But we all know those that have money can change rules when ever they want.
 
So that indicates there is no meaning for Ivey to play again in the WSOP until he settles the dispute he has with the Borgata , doesn't it ?? Sad , I hope he finds a way to reach a mutually beneficially agreement and this story has a good end for Ivey .
 
I wish Ivey would just pay up so we don't have to read about this anymore. He cheated, he won, he got sued, he lost. Now if he could just PAY UP, we wouldn't have to talk about this anymore. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 
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mtl mile end said:
I wish Ivey would just pay up so we don't have to read about this anymore. He cheated, he won, he got sued, he lost. Now if he could just PAY UP, we wouldn't have to talk about this anymore. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Cheated is not the right word. He didnt control, change, manipulate the cards in any way. An edge not of his doing. Not of his control. The house has an edge. why cant we sue casinos for this edge?

Casino didn't do its job. They used casino bought cards. Casino employee delt. No rules were broken. Flip the situation you would say tough luck Phil. Casinos get over all the time. Ironic isn't it.

Phil keeps his money or casinos give back theirs.:reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy:
 
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Ivey absolutely in no way cheated. The casino agreed to use a certain deck that could be edge sorted.

If you have a contract between two people and every letter of that contract is followed, then its your fault if you overlooked something that you agreed to.

Ivey got cheated by the system and is being treated like a criminal when he did NOTHING wrong except trust that a casino would make good on its word.
 
Sometimes a lot of money attracts not only beneficial things with themselves but also many problems. Unfortunately for Phill, this happened in his case too.
 
Well he has to pay them back some how, so they will take his earnings. He is a great player he will pay it off in a little bit of time.
 
bigpappa325 said:
Cheated is not the right word. He didnt control, change, manipulate the cards in any way. An edge not of his doing. Not of his control. The house has an edge. why cant we sue casinos for this edge?

Casino didn't do its job. They used casino bought cards. Casino employee delt. No rules were broken. Flip the situation you would say tough luck Phil. Casinos get over all the time. Ironic isn't it.

Phil keeps his money or casinos give back theirs.:reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy:
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ChickenArise said:
Ivey absolutely in no way cheated. The casino agreed to use a certain deck that could be edge sorted.

If you have a contract between two people and every letter of that contract is followed, then its your fault if you overlooked something that you agreed to.

Ivey got cheated by the system and is being treated like a criminal when he did NOTHING wrong except trust that a casino would make good on its word.
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He talked the dealer into turning all the big cards 180 degrees, claiming superstition. His sharp eyed partner then could identify all the big cards. He used this edge to win millions of dollars. That's cheating as far as I, and a judge, are concerned.

Like I said, I really don't want to talk/argue/discuss this anymore.
 
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mtl mile end said:
He talked the dealer into turning all the big cards 180 degrees, claiming superstition. His sharp eyed partner then could identify all the big cards. He used this edge to win millions of dollars. That's cheating as far as I, and a judge, are concerned.

Like I said, I really don't want to talk/argue/discuss this anymore.
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so by your definition of cheating, card counting at blackjack is also cheating?
 
antonis32123 said:
So that indicates there is no meaning for Ivey to play again in the WSOP until he settles the dispute he has with the Borgata , doesn't it ?? Sad , I hope he finds a way to reach a mutually beneficially agreement and this story has a good end for Ivey .
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He missed that boat along time ago.

:top:
ChickenArise said:
so by your definition of cheating, card counting at blackjack is also cheating?
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Not at all, card counting doesn't use a flaw in the deck. like Tim said, "He cheated, he won, he got sued, he lost" The courts verdict is the final word, if he disagreed with that court ruling he had the option to appeal it.

:bandit:
 
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Crazy. It sucks getting garnished wages. Better than being in Jail. Cheaters never truly win. Should always play poker and other games straight up. Then if you lose go get a real job. Lol
 
The courts have already decided the issue: Phil Ivey cheated. 😱

My belief is that in order to avoid getting garnished, Phil Ivey won't be playing much in the USA from now on. 🙄
 
The Casino provided the cards, so if they were " faulty" or had a defect that could be exploitable then good for the person who can use that edge. The Casino agreed to Ivey's request to turn the cards around. In all those long sessions he also lost money, he didn't win at every hand. It's not like they offer to give the money he lost back. In poker, the players who are good at reading live tells also have an edge over the other players, yet that would never be considered cheating. Nobody would ever think to tell Daniel Negreanu not to take part in a tournament for recreational poker players ( roughly any tournament with a buy in of less than 1000 USD), but he does have an edge over recreational players.
I don't think anybody wins from this battle. Ivey, his reputation is a bit tarnished, but financially he sold everything in the States, lives in Mexico and can play anywhere else except the US. Either way living in the US is not amazing for professional poker players, the taxes are high. A lot of pros are based in South America or Europe. And Borgata still won't get their money.
 
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I don't like to hear when every human has that kind of situation, especially Phil :/
 
bigpappa325 said:
Cheated is not the right word. He didnt control, change, manipulate the cards in any way.
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There are so many ways of cheating that don't involve manipulating the cards.

Counting in blackjack,
collusion in poker
 
Real_degen_nairo said:
There are so many ways of cheating that don't involve manipulating the cards.

Counting in blackjack,
collusion in poker
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Dont be a dork counting cards is equal to card sorting.

Collusion is just plain old cheating.. period:reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy::reddy:
 
It's sad, that such a talented and iconical player could't cope with own passion.
Good luck for him.
 
Ivey definitely didn’t cheat. The casino had a bad deck and he took advantage of that. If he lost millions, could he sue and recoup the losses because of the bad deck? I think not. Its sad to see this and I’m wondering how much of his absence from recent WSOP’s has been because of this. If he wins, his money goes to the house.
 
Phil wasn't even the mastermind, and it wasn't his money. His partner was the one running the scam. Basically they were running an advantage play and got caught eventually. Phil was only there as the window dressing since he is a known table games fish. Now he basically can't gamble in the US (or he gets his winnings taken). Coupled with the Full Tilt fiasco I've lost any bit of respect for Phil the person... Still a great poker player, just a degenerate financially.
 
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So sad what the courts and casinos have done to Ivey in this whole situation, they offered the game ...

Sadly this will probably be the end of him playing in any WSOP events in the future 🙁
 
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