A-A pre-flop FOLD

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vox1er

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partypoker, $2.20 + $0 - 275/550 (65 ante) - 8 players (Early stage)
Dog_Patrol (UTG): 63,130 (115 bb)
evoxer (UTG+1): 54,580 (99 bb)
Inmate-24 (MP): 52,889 (96 bb)
itekkers (MP+1): 73,379 (133 bb)
Chillachin (CO): 47,865 (87 bb)
The0rigin (BB): 41,995 (76 bb)

Pre-Flop (1,345) Hero (evoxer) is UTG+1 with A♥ A♠
(UTG) raises to 1,320, evoxer (UTG+1) 3-bets to 2,475, 1 fold, (MP+1) calls 2,475, 1 fold, (BU) 4-bets to 39,564 (all-in), (SB) calls 26,913 (all-in), 2 players fold, evoxer (UTG+1) folds, 1 fold

Flop: (61,716) 5♠ 2♠ 5♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (61,716) K♣ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (61,716) 6♣(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 61,716

Showdown:
supemandan13 (BU) shows K♥5♣ (a full house, Fives full of Kings)

lydl57 (SB) shows J♦J♣ (two pair, Jacks and Fives)

supemandan13 (BU) wins 61,716

Would you fold AA against 2 players on pre-flop (all-in)?
 
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vox1er said:
Would you fold AA against 2 players on pre-flop (all-in)?
Click to expand...
No... I said no. Did I mention the answer is no? Nope, nope nope! 🙂
 
If you have AA preflop the do you flod!!?? I'm not really seeing any time you fold that hand preflop unless you're short stack sitting on the bubble trying to cash but even then I would find it extremely difficult to fold. So I guess the answer is no, not folding.
 
You’re becoming results oriented by folding. You need to understand that you have the nuts. Would you fold to an all-in shove if you flopped the nut straight? This was a terrible fold! Poker is calculated on long term success not individual hand results. Sometimes in poker it’s just your time to die!!! Folding only makes you exploitable. The only time AA should be folded preflop is when you’re at/around/above chip average in a satellite around the bubble.
 
Fold AA pre flop only in very specific situations and this situation was not one of them
 
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Preflop? no..Never. You literally hold the best hand
 
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vox1er said:
partypoker, $2.20 + $0 - 275/550 (65 ante) - 8 players (Early stage)
Dog_Patrol (UTG): 63,130 (115 bb)
evoxer (UTG+1): 54,580 (99 bb)
Inmate-24 (MP): 52,889 (96 bb)
itekkers (MP+1): 73,379 (133 bb)
Chillachin (CO): 47,865 (87 bb)
The0rigin (BB): 41,995 (76 bb)

Pre-Flop (1,345) Hero (evoxer) is UTG+1 with A¢¾ A¢¼
(UTG) raises to 1,320, evoxer (UTG+1) 3-bets to 2,475, 1 fold, (MP+1) calls 2,475, 1 fold, (BU) 4-bets to 39,564 (all-in), (SB) calls 26,913 (all-in), 2 players fold, evoxer (UTG+1) folds, 1 fold

Flop: (61,716) 5¢¼ 2¢¼ 5¢¾ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (61,716) K¢À (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (61,716) 6¢À(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 61,716

Showdown:
supemandan13 (BU) shows K¢¾5¢À (a full house, Fives full of Kings)

lydl57 (SB) shows J♦J¢À (two pair, Jacks and Fives)

supemandan13 (BU) wins 61,716


Would you fold AA against 2 players on pre-flop (all-in)?
Click to expand...

No, this is an inherently bad play.....even though he would have lost if he had not folded.
 
No you should not be folding aces here. You've folded because you don't want to suck out of the tournament early on but you have the strongest preflop hand you should call and cross your fingers that you win the nice pot. As above your only ever folding aces if you are in a satellite and have locked up a seat and don't need to take the risk.
 
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I dont fold, pot has 74110 chips you have to put 37089 chips to call, so you need a hand that win at least 33% against others to call be profit. I think that AA against two players has at least 50% to win (i dont calculated), if MP+1 call after you, you need a hand that win 25% fo times and AA has at least 40% (i dont calculated to). So its a profit call. Maybe you lose sometimes but most times you win.
 
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woow...that's a bit crazy cause the whole reason for raising is to narrow the field and get someone with a semi reasonable hand heads up

since they tossed it in that's the action you are looking for, too fold suggests lack of confidence
in the end it was the right call but woow just wow
 
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I'd probably fold unless I really had the other players stacked. All you've got is a pair of aces. That's nothing. All the people that say they'd never fold are probably the same ones that complain when their aces get cracked in these situations. 🙂

The real play start post flop anyway, so the aforementioned "fingers crossed" is really all you've got if you go in with these other players. The success rate drops whenever you're not heads up...
 
No, AA is still the best starting hand so as long as I'm not playing tournaments that exceed my BRM I'm fine with the occasional bad beats.

Anyways, congrats on your call.
 
Unless it's a satty or a big money bubble waiting to burst, I don't see any positive outcomes for folding AA pre.
 
It would be the sad moment for me in that situation, but the answer is: "Absolutely no!". I can't imagine in what situation I would fold AA.
 
bellicoso said:
I'd probably fold unless I really had the other players stacked. All you've got is a pair of aces. That's nothing. All the people that say they'd never fold are probably the same ones that complain when their aces get cracked in these situations. 🙂

The real play start post flop anyway, so the aforementioned "fingers crossed" is really all you've got if you go in with these other players. The success rate drops whenever you're not heads up...
Click to expand...

As you can see from the attached picture against the probable ranges of button and sb we are a massive favourite it's an easy call if your folding this your a massive nit.
 

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NL tournament math is not solved

vox1er said:
partypoker, $2.20 + $0 - 275/550 (65 ante) - 8 players (Early stage)
Dog_Patrol (UTG): 63,130 (115 bb)
evoxer (UTG+1): 54,580 (99 bb)
Inmate-24 (MP): 52,889 (96 bb)
itekkers (MP+1): 73,379 (133 bb)
Chillachin (CO): 47,865 (87 bb)
The0rigin (BB): 41,995 (76 bb)

Pre-Flop (1,345) Hero (evoxer) is UTG+1 with A♥ A♠
(UTG) raises to 1,320, evoxer (UTG+1) 3-bets to 2,475, 1 fold, (MP+1) calls 2,475, 1 fold, (BU) 4-bets to 39,564 (all-in), (SB) calls 26,913 (all-in), 2 players fold, evoxer (UTG+1) folds, 1 fold

Flop: (61,716) 5♠ 2♠ 5♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (61,716) K♣ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (61,716) 6♣(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 61,716

Showdown:
supemandan13 (BU) shows K♥5♣ (a full house, Fives full of Kings)

lydl57 (SB) shows J♦J♣ (two pair, Jacks and Fives)

supemandan13 (BU) wins 61,716

Would you fold AA against 2 players on pre-flop (all-in)?
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting.


The math is not solved. Using cash game equities is a strong guide but imperfect. You do not realize tournament chip equity early in a tournament. If there was ever a time to make a results oriented play in a tournament it would be early.

Staying alive in tournaments is important. Many many times the early chip leaders do not win.
It is easier to follow a strategy of the math dictates this so I do this. You can deviate from excepted norms in tournaments and not do too much harm to your ROI

Do not however get into the habit of folding AA because you are afraid of the suck out. Only fold it if you believe your skill advantage is greater than the immediate equity of any particular hand in tournaments only!

:wavey:
 
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If you fold here, then which hand will you ever play ???

There are not many situations in which you are such a big favorite. You are avoiding a good bet for a chance to make weaker ones...

On the other hand i can understand you, because ( just like in your example ) the really big pots seem to always be won by the dumbest play made in online poker 🙂
 
Hello

I will agree with your fold of AA even though I would never fold.

But you played smart as there was 2 players all in before you and thus your chances of winning was reduced as compared to a heads up hand.

With heads up I am sure you would not have folded.

So yes a good fold (not because you didnt win) but considering the all ins before you.

Thanks
 
It Is extremely hard to give up AA, but as you described the hand it seems like... Held more luck..😀
 
vox1er said:
partypoker, $2.20 + $0 - 275/550 (65 ante) - 8 players (Early stage)
Dog_Patrol (UTG): 63,130 (115 bb)
evoxer (UTG+1): 54,580 (99 bb)
Inmate-24 (MP): 52,889 (96 bb)
itekkers (MP+1): 73,379 (133 bb)
Chillachin (CO): 47,865 (87 bb)
The0rigin (BB): 41,995 (76 bb)

Pre-Flop (1,345) Hero (evoxer) is UTG+1 with A♥ A♠
(UTG) raises to 1,320, evoxer (UTG+1) 3-bets to 2,475, 1 fold, (MP+1) calls 2,475, 1 fold, (BU) 4-bets to 39,564 (all-in), (SB) calls 26,913 (all-in), 2 players fold, evoxer (UTG+1) folds, 1 fold


Flop: (61,716) 5♠ 2♠ 5♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (61,716) K♣ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (61,716) 6♣(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 61,716

Showdown:
supemandan13 (BU) shows K♥5♣ (a full house, Fives full of Kings)

lydl57 (SB) shows J♦J♣ (two pair, Jacks and Fives)

supemandan13 (BU) wins 61,716

Would you fold AA against 2 players on pre-flop (all-in)?
Click to expand...



Never, not ever folding AA or KK
 
vox1er said:
partypoker, $2.20 + $0 - 275/550 (65 ante) - 8 players (Early stage)
Dog_Patrol (UTG): 63,130 (115 bb)
evoxer (UTG+1): 54,580 (99 bb)
Inmate-24 (MP): 52,889 (96 bb)
itekkers (MP+1): 73,379 (133 bb)
Chillachin (CO): 47,865 (87 bb)
The0rigin (BB): 41,995 (76 bb)

Pre-Flop (1,345) Hero (evoxer) is UTG+1 with A♥ A♠
(UTG) raises to 1,320, evoxer (UTG+1) 3-bets to 2,475, 1 fold, (MP+1) calls 2,475, 1 fold, (BU) 4-bets to 39,564 (all-in), (SB) calls 26,913 (all-in), 2 players fold, evoxer (UTG+1) folds, 1 fold


Flop: (61,716) 5♠ 2♠ 5♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (61,716) K♣ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (61,716) 6♣(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 61,716

Showdown:
supemandan13 (BU) shows K♥5♣ (a full house, Fives full of Kings)

lydl57 (SB) shows J♦J♣ (two pair, Jacks and Fives)

supemandan13 (BU) wins 61,716

Would you fold AA against 2 players on pre-flop (all-in)?
Click to expand...



Never, not ever folding AA or KK
 
The bottom line is you have to trust your gut. Just know folding AA because youre scared is the wrong reason to fold.
 
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