Lemme give you an example. when someone, who is a reasonably tight player, playing around 18/13/1.8 raises from UTG. that doesnt necessarily mean that he has aces or kings. He might have 44 for all i know. As im pretty sure that kinf of hand is in his range for 6max UTG opens.
He also could have aces ,sure. If i 3bet from MP or SB or wherever, i am basically polarizing my range to something ace heavy or king heavy or TT+ type of hand.( especially since my 3bet percentage is like 4% or so).
If i make the 3bet with 67 suited, i am actually planning to repp any Ace or King- high flops i see. going to be barreling any two toned JJ3 or 35T flop i see. If they flat and i dont pick up on turn, im giving up. If they fold, im printing money. If i bink a good draw or two pairs on the flop, i might even be checking for some pot control or barreling according to what i think they might have or how they react to my bet.
So basically when im making plays with suited connectors or even low one gappers, im already predetermined not to go any further than the flop unless i hit it hard. Or unless i think i can rep it well.
So who are we going to be flatting suited connectors against in your opinion ,if not the nits? The loose players? when you hit medium pairs and you dont know if villain has hit it as well?
He also could have aces ,sure. If i 3bet from MP or SB or wherever, i am basically polarizing my range to something ace heavy or king heavy or TT+ type of hand.( especially since my 3bet percentage is like 4% or so).
If i make the 3bet with 67 suited, i am actually planning to repp any Ace or King- high flops i see. going to be barreling any two toned JJ3 or 35T flop i see. If they flat and i dont pick up on turn, im giving up. If they fold, im printing money. If i bink a good draw or two pairs on the flop, i might even be checking for some pot control or barreling according to what i think they might have or how they react to my bet.
So basically when im making plays with suited connectors or even low one gappers, im already predetermined not to go any further than the flop unless i hit it hard. Or unless i think i can rep it well.
So who are we going to be flatting suited connectors against in your opinion ,if not the nits? The loose players? when you hit medium pairs and you dont know if villain has hit it as well?
duggs said:
Because hand strength preflop and hand strength on the flop are two totally different things. a raise and a call pre are insignificant amounts in comparison to the money we can win when we do hit. right?
Like if i start with 5$ at 5NL and i raise to 15.cents and someone calls. Pot is like 37 cents. (only 15 is ours) and we have another 4.85 cents behind to work with and see how we are looking on the flop to decide whether its worth investing more.
Not a numbers pro here but if feels like its not horrible.
And duggs, i thought you were pro widening ranges and aggro plays in certain spots. Don't get what you mean here. Like do you always get your money in when you feel your hand is ahead pre?
Everytime we setmine , we go to the flop knowing that our hand is probably behind so we dont continue unless we hit. Same goes for SC right? We know we are behind but are hoping that flop gets us ahead.?
Everytime we setmine , we go to the flop knowing that our hand is probably behind so we dont continue unless we hit. Same goes for SC right? We know we are behind but are hoping that flop gets us ahead.?
for sure, but look at the implied odds of those hands tho, set mining works because when we flop equity we flop ****loads. thing is with 63s its one of the worst hands possible. like its actually like what 95th percentile bad? it should be folded pre when unopened, thousands of better hands to flat with, to start with all pairs.
check out baudi great golden archives post about the comparison of suited connectors and small pocket pairs.
cliffs SC flop a little equity a lot, pairs flop a lot of equity a little. which one do we want v a tight range.
cliffs SC flop a little equity a lot, pairs flop a lot of equity a little. which one do we want v a tight range.
duggs said:
I hear you. We want the lot of equity a little. Alrighty then. Will implement. And of course the 63 hand was a one timer. its not like i flat 36 all the time. I might flat it like once every 50 times i get it or something like that. depends on how im running really. Running good kind of widens up my ranges somewhat untill i lose a medium sized pot ,and then i get right back to normal.😛
villain 27/20/2.8
line check?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com
BB ($2.65)
Hero (UTG) ($5.27)
MP ($5.96)
CO ($5.73)
Button ($8.95)
SB ($2.02)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2
, 2
Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, CO calls $0.15, 1 fold, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.50) 4
, Q
, 3
(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $0.35, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35
Turn: ($1.20) 7
(2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks
River: ($1.20) 3
(2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks
Total pot: $1.20 | Rake: $0.06
Results below:
line check?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com
BB ($2.65)
Hero (UTG) ($5.27)
MP ($5.96)
CO ($5.73)
Button ($8.95)
SB ($2.02)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2
Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, CO calls $0.15, 1 fold, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.50) 4
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $0.35, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35
Turn: ($1.20) 7
Hero checks, CO checks
River: ($1.20) 3
Hero checks, CO checks
Total pot: $1.20 | Rake: $0.06
Results below:
Hero had 2
, 2
(two pair, threes and twos).
CO had 10
, 9
(one pair, threes).
Outcome: Hero won $1.14
CO had 10
Outcome: Hero won $1.14
Thanks Duggs. Ok take alook at this.
Hardest hand of the month IMO. Villains stats: 20/16/10 over 89 hands. ( looks competent enough)
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php
CO ($13.97)
Button ($3.03)
SB ($17.33)
BB ($3.74)
UTG ($3.43)
Hero (MP) ($5.34)
Preflop: Hero is MP with A
, K
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.17, CO calls $0.17, Button calls $0.17, 2 folds
Flop: ($0.58) K
, 6
, 5
(3 players)
Hero bets $0.44, CO raises to $1.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.66 (his raise here means one of the following things IMO. He has a set/ a FD(non nutted as i hold the ace blocker so less likely and 2 pairs. Mostly looks like set of sixes or set of fives and a little of 78) Dont love my call here but i have to peel just because of the FD.
Turn: ($2.78) A
(2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks This "looks" like a good card for me but if im against a set, im dead, so i decide to check call. Interestingly he checks behind so now im pretty sure he's on a FD but still doesnt make sense since i have the nut ace.
River: ($2.78) 4
(2 players)
Hero bets $1.72, CO raises to $6.69, Hero folds ( on the river here, i dont wanna see any jams, or checks behind from worse two pair so i decide to go for value at this point since i suppose sets are not checking turn behind. when he jams, i just dont think im ahead. He obviously has something better than me. Only thing i regret is not check calling river, but i feel as though im ahead and feel like im betting for value.) thoughts on this laydown?
Total pot: $6.22 | Rake: $0.31
Results below:
Hardest hand of the month IMO. Villains stats: 20/16/10 over 89 hands. ( looks competent enough)
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php
CO ($13.97)
Button ($3.03)
SB ($17.33)
BB ($3.74)
UTG ($3.43)
Hero (MP) ($5.34)
Preflop: Hero is MP with A
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.17, CO calls $0.17, Button calls $0.17, 2 folds
Flop: ($0.58) K
Hero bets $0.44, CO raises to $1.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.66 (his raise here means one of the following things IMO. He has a set/ a FD(non nutted as i hold the ace blocker so less likely and 2 pairs. Mostly looks like set of sixes or set of fives and a little of 78) Dont love my call here but i have to peel just because of the FD.
Turn: ($2.78) A
Hero checks, CO checks This "looks" like a good card for me but if im against a set, im dead, so i decide to check call. Interestingly he checks behind so now im pretty sure he's on a FD but still doesnt make sense since i have the nut ace.
River: ($2.78) 4
Hero bets $1.72, CO raises to $6.69, Hero folds ( on the river here, i dont wanna see any jams, or checks behind from worse two pair so i decide to go for value at this point since i suppose sets are not checking turn behind. when he jams, i just dont think im ahead. He obviously has something better than me. Only thing i regret is not check calling river, but i feel as though im ahead and feel like im betting for value.) thoughts on this laydown?
Total pot: $6.22 | Rake: $0.31
Results below:
CO didn't show
Outcome: CO won $5.91
Outcome: CO won $5.91
duggs said:
really? I mean ,i do too but just snap fold? Isn't that a bit exploitable ? Don't we want to be peeling at least one street?
"As played check fold river?" Dont we have enough equity to call up to a 50% bet? We have top two.
Blobweird123 said:
what do you put villain on if your in this hand? How can he be going over the top on the river when he cannot have the nuts since im holding the A of hearts?
Preety bad play from villain if you ask me due to that fact alone.
vinylspiros said:
No one ever said he was good lol. Since we hold the nut blocker obv he is jamming a little thin, but doubt he does it with much worse than Jxhh. Like I don't think even bad players are doing this 78 for the straight. There's a non zero chance he has Kx, checks back turn because of scare card, then bluffs river, but its super small. So yeah IMO he's weighted verrry heavily toward like TJ+ hearts.
duggs said:
None. I hear you duggs. Thats why i folded . Could be that folding flop might be ideal cause the majority of the time he has a set, its just that the FD made me peel and then the Ace on the turn overcomplicaed things making my hand look even stronger when in reality im still behind his flop 3bet range.
thnks though for opinion. Just think im going to be folding these type of flop reraises in the near future( obviously depending on who im up against), in order to avoid these spots OOP.