*****Vinyl's GonnaCrushDAmicros 6max thread******

  • Thread starter Thread starter vinylspiros
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Blobweird123 said:
If you don't understand the when and why, then of course you shouldn't start doing it! Same with anything else in poker man.
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No No, I do understand the when and the why. I just dont do it . I just dont like making those kind of plays when i can just fold and pick a better spot. Sure his 3bet % is pretty high ,so does that mean that i should be going bananas with less than premiums to see if maybe i can get a fold ? that or get called down by AJ or something.


I dont know man. Not my thing yet. And also if he flats our 4bet , we are going to be in some really ugly spots( and probably semi commited looking for any kind of contact) ,postflop, if we dont hit or whatever so i dont know if its really worth it putting ourselves in such situations.
 
vinylspiros said:
No No, I do understand the when and the why. I just dont do it . I just dont like making those kind of plays when i can just fold and pick a better spot. Sure his 3bet % is pretty high ,so does that mean that i should be going bananas with less than premiums to see if maybe i can get a fold ? that or get called down by AJ or something.


I dont know man. Not my thing yet. And also if he flats our 4bet , we are going to be in some really ugly spots ,postflop, if we dont hit or whatever so i dont know if its really worth it putting ourselves in such situations.
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You have to take more into account than just his 3b%. And ultimately it's good to have a bunch of hands on villain. So if that were the case, I'd first look and be like ok, he's 3b'ing a ton. Do I have enough notes to know his range pretty well? Hmm ok yes, he has some light 3bets occasionally. How often does he fold to 4bets? Hmm ok, how often does he flat IP and fold to cbets? So in other words, prob best not to get mixed up in it yet. But I think we wanna compound multiple stats in these situations to know for sure if it makes sense or not. And to do this we obv need a lot of hands on villain.
 
Blobweird123 said:
You have to take more into account than just his 3b%. And ultimately it's good to have a bunch of hands on villain. So if that were the case, I'd first look and be like ok, he's 3b'ing a ton. Do I have enough notes to know his range pretty well? Hmm ok yes, he has some light 3bets occasionally. How often does he fold to 4bets? Hmm ok, how often does he flat IP and fold to cbets? So in other words, prob best not to get mixed up in it yet. But I think we wanna compound multiple stats in these situations to know for sure if it makes sense or not. And to do this we obv need a lot of hands on villain.
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yep yep, exactly. I hear ya man. It's just like i have like no idea what villain would ever flat a 4bet with so like if i 4bet light and he flatted, i would be like screwed.


And even in the example where i have like 1000 hands on villain and his 3bet % is like 8, i still wouldnt know how to interpret that into exact ranges so i'd be playing the guessing game.


And then again, stats can be misleading. Sometimes when someone really tight 3bets me and i flat and we get to showdown, they sometimes show up with bizzare garbage and im like whattttttttt?????????? , this guy has a 3bet of like 2% over 500 hands and he suddenly decides to 3bet me from MPwith like 68 suited?


Dont know exactly how reliable HUDS are tbh. I sometimes feel like i might be playing better with it switched off.

Thnks though blob. I get what your saying.
 
are there any programs that just calculate everything for you and adjust so you don't have any leaks and make perfect bet's folds for situations? seems all this thread is about is just statistical stuff and line's, well aren't there programs that can do that like magic hold em that help calculate odds, position, and leaving all you have to do is adjust to your opponent
 
vinylspiros said:
Dont know exactly how reliable HUDS are tbh. I sometimes feel like i might be playing better with it switched off.
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You wan't the simple answer to why that is? It's because without the stats there, you're not gonna try to get fancy. As you shouldn't! You're gonna play straight-forward ABC poker which is basically all you should be doing now. Even with a HUD off, I can still find spots on REG SPEED tables where I can 3b light etc. But for the most part, we should just play straight up. Got a real hand, bet for value. Don't have a real hand. Check/fold. Does this mean we shouldn't cbet the dry boards we always do? And barrel that A on the turn like we do? Ofc not. That's part of our ABC game. But don't get fancy is all.

Edit: And please, totally ignore that 4bet bluffing and utilizing any form of it really. It's just not worth it till you really understand more. *Nothing against John A's vid.
 
bernotas22 said:
are there any programs that just calculate everything for you and adjust so you don't have any leaks and make perfect bet's folds for situations? seems all this thread is about is just statistical stuff and line's, well aren't there programs that can do that like magic hold em that help calculate odds, position, and leaving all you have to do is adjust to your opponent
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Sigh, is this real? Of course all this thread is about is statistical stuff and lines. Because isn't that what poker is? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 
Of course all this thread is about is statistical stuff and lines. Because isn't that what poker is?

never mind go get some ice and relax, your head probably hurts from hitting it into the wall repeatedly
 
bernotas22 said:
Of course all this thread is about is statistical stuff and lines. Because isn't that what poker is?

never mind go get some ice and relax, your head probably hurts from hitting it into the wall repeatedly
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Aren't there other threads you can troll?
 
I honestly didnt do so much reading and writing even when i was back in college.

Talk about commitment.
 
I will shut up and go back to my corner now, maybe I can grow wiser by witnessing on thy thread what lines and strategies you peeps draw up and adapting it onto my game
 
Re a HUD, i'm in a bind about it. I don't use one, and as I've only been playing properly for a year or so - learning, studying, reading, analysing, discussing etc - and playing ABC poker, i'm not sure i want one.

That said, i've been getting closer and closer to buying PT4, so prob will one day. I'm really happy with my casual after work hours / reg results online at 10NL and 25NL (rush and normal speed), roll at $220 and i have been withdrawing $100 every 3 to 5 weeks or whatever, tracking all play on excel. (Including shots at 1/2 live and occasional MTTs).

So what i'm saying is should i bother? Or just carry on note taking/colour coding? (Thanks for another derail by me in your thread Vin 😉
 
bernotas22 said:
are there any programs that just calculate everything for you and adjust so you don't have any leaks and make perfect bet's folds for situations? seems all this thread is about is just statistical stuff and line's, well aren't there programs that can do that like magic hold em that help calculate odds, position, and leaving all you have to do is adjust to your opponent
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But - in certain situations - you want to able to beat the game without using s/w right? Unless you never ever ever play live i guess...
 
BTW - lolz - when i 3-bet you Vinyl from the BB last night on FT Rush, i had JJ. You called and (thank goodness) folded to my c-bet on that Q high flop. Hope you didn't fold better! Actually yes I do!
 
long_bong said:
I mean it all depends on dynamics and your opponent but I myself never open oop from the b v b and get involved with a pissing match, Ill 5 bet my hand oop and fold rather than flat villains 4 bet oop with 33 type hands and be lost throughout the hand.

:icon_sunn Overall just try to avoid blind vs blind situations all togeather IMO at lower limits, all we do is loose more than win in these positions. Just go bring up holdem manager and see for yourself, money won vs money lost in the blinds. You will be amazed. And if you gradually pass up on those spots and just fold and see a new hand, in the long run overall your win rate will increase because we are just avoiding those difficult spots all togeather.:icon_sunn
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typo lol ^^^ blame the weed lmfao I ment to say

''I mean it all depends on dynamics and your opponent but I myself never open oop from the b v b and get involved with a pissing match, Ill 5 bet my hand oop and fold rather than flat villains 4 bet oop with 33 type hands and be lost throughout the hand"

4 bet my hand rather than flat villains 3 bet lmao sorry guys 😛 bahhhh
 
duggs said:
if you are 5betting 33 bvb 100bb eff it should be a shove, 5bet/folding equity away is atrocious but i don't really see why 33 is a good 3bet candidate to begging with bvb

bvb spots are where we should have a huge edge v the player pool, remember blind play needs to be evaluated compared to losing 1bb or 1/2bb. so if by defending a hand bvb we lose .3bb thats a fist pump gain.
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yea sorry I miss typed that lol 😛 ^^^😛
 
long_bong said:
typo lol ^^^ blame the weed lmfao I ment to say

''I mean it all depends on dynamics and your opponent but I myself never open oop from the b v b and get involved with a pissing match, Ill 5 bet my hand oop and fold rather than flat villains 4 bet oop with 33 type hands and be lost throughout the hand"

4 bet my hand rather than flat villains 3 bet lmao sorry guys 😛 bahhhh
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makes more sense now lol but for the record we had position with 33. Which is why I don't mind flatting. But ultimately it's prob folding>flatting>4bet. I at least wanna 4bet bluff something that can flop well. And 33 only flops well to a 2-outer really where as A4 we can flop straights/straight draws, flushes/flush draws etc.
 
bernotas22 said:
are there any programs that just calculate everything for you and adjust so you don't have any leaks and make perfect bet's folds for situations? seems all this thread is about is just statistical stuff and line's, well aren't there programs that can do that like magic hold em that help calculate odds, position, and leaving all you have to do is adjust to your opponent
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no no no no. you realize poker is a game of maths, saying it about statistical stuff and lines is akin sprinting is about speed.
 
I thought math had lines and statistics in it and hey even speed but alrighty mr. duggie
 
😎
Blobweird123 said:
makes more sense now lol but for the record we had position with 33. Which is why I don't mind flatting. But ultimately it's prob folding>flatting>4bet. I at least wanna 4bet bluff something that can flop well. And 33 only flops well to a 2-outer really where as A4 we can flop straights/straight draws, flushes/flush draws etc.
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😎
 
Just going back to the Ah Th hand against the btn 3 bet, I think its worth congratulating Vin on winning that hand. Blob is right that for the vast majority of your play you want to be playing ABC but there should always be room for creativity and unusual lines to confuse opponents as long as it is only done occasionally. That is the caveat, if you try that again on the same opponent he will think this guy did this before it's just a stunt and raise you.
The fact that he folded to a chk raise on the flop showed he probably was 3 betting light in that case. I can see the point that he is likely to be strong 3 betting an UTG raise so a fold is usually warranted unless there are high 3bet stats from the villain. Which wasn't posted on this hand.
I would press the case that a 4 bet from UTG would looks equally as strong as Vins chck raise but only if the stats are there to do it.
 
Figaroo2 said:
Just going back to the Ah Th hand against the btn 3 bet, I think its worth congratulating Vin on winning that hand. Blob is right that for the vast majority of your play you want to be playing ABC but there should always be room for creativity and unusual lines to confuse opponents as long as it is only done occasionally. That is the caveat, if you try that again on the same opponent he will think this guy did this before it's just a stunt and raise you.
The fact that he folded to a chk raise on the flop showed he probably was 3 betting light in that case. I can see the point that he is likely to be strong 3 betting an UTG raise so a fold is usually warranted unless there are high 3bet stats from the villain. Which wasn't posted on this hand.
I would press the case that a 4 bet from UTG would looks equally as strong as Vins chck raise but only if the stats are there to do it.
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How does that prove he was 3betting light? JJ, although not the greatest 3bet BTN vs UTG, is folding here. AK is folding here. We can't just assume because he folds a dry flop that he had to be light. Sure we need to mix it up a bit. But calling a hand easily dominated OOP isn't the kind of mixing it up we should be doing imo.
 
Blobweird123 said:
How does that prove he was 3betting light? JJ, although not the greatest 3bet BTN vs UTG, is folding here. AK is folding here. We can't just assume because he folds a dry flop that he had to be light. Sure we need to mix it up a bit. But calling a hand easily dominated OOP isn't the kind of mixing it up we should be doing imo.
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This +1000 attack weak or capped ranges not uncapped ranges with a small spr
 
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