*****Vinyl's GonnaCrushDAmicros 6max thread******

  • Thread starter Thread starter vinylspiros
  • Start date Start date
I didn't say it proved he was three betting light I said
"showed he probably was 3 betting light in that case."
Vinyl I agree with the others... calling a 3 bet OOP with an easily dominated hand is -EV (but at least you had the nous to make a play and take it down, WD just don't do it again it makes blob angry...)
 
Would it be a bad play if we got shoved on tho? Results are irrelevant
 
Figaroo2 said:
I didn't say it proved he was three betting light I said
"showed he probably was 3 betting light in that case."
Vinyl I agree with the others... calling a 3 bet OOP with an easily dominated hand is -EV (but at least you had the nous to make a play and take it down, WD just don't do it again it makes blob angry...)

Wow so you say this here, you send me a pm basically saying im a dick for giving advice. Whats your deal man?
 
Oh come on guys. No need to argue. Maybe you can just agree to disagree.

we are all here for the same reason. Exchange of opinions and to learn. No need for the drama.

Blob just stated his opinion figaro. Im sure he didnt intend to offend you or anything.
Hes not angry hes just straightforward. all good man.
 
heres a hand i just played to lighten up the atmosphere. abit spewy or line alright? villain is a super passive whale running 55/0/0.8


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

CO ($9.22)
Button ($8.30)
SB ($10.16)
BB ($10)
UTG ($7.31)
Hero (MP) ($13.34)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q
heart.gif
, K
club.gif

UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.45, 3 folds, BB calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.05) 5
spade.gif
, 10
heart.gif
, 2
club.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.65) J
spade.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.04, BB calls $2.04

River: ($6.73) K
spade.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6.79, BB calls $6.71 (All-In)

Total pot: $20.15 | Rake: $1

Results below:
BB had 6
diamond.gif
, 6
club.gif
(one pair, sixes).
Hero had Q
heart.gif
, K
club.gif
(one pair, Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $19.15
 
High stakes. High tension. Hi Blob. Hi Figaro. Figaroo. Kigaroo. Kangaroo. Use the loo.

I really wish I had an explanation for the above. I am neither drunk nor high (stakes).
 
Last edited:
Scourrge said:
High stakes. High tension. Hi Blob. Hi Figaro. Figaroo. Kigaroo. Kangaroo. Use the loo.

I really wish I had an explanation for the above. I am neither drunk nor high (stakes).



LOL.:icon_sunn
 
***IMO***

KQo: seems contradicting in a way. We bet river big because we don't think he folds anything right? So why do we bet the turn as a semi-bluff? Flop seems fine since we fold out any non-paired equity he might have against us. But turn seems pointless if he doesn't fold much.

***IMO***
 
i think i'd prefer to go with half pot bet on flop , half pot on turn and half pot on river. turn we pick up a lot more outs and therefore equity , but not a lot of point bloating the pot too big with K high . even though we hit TP on river some of his range will still have us beaten with flushs that got their or two pairs.
 
Blobweird123 said:
***IMO***

KQo: seems contradicting in a way. We bet river big because we don't think he folds anything right? So why do we bet the turn as a semi-bluff? Flop seems fine since we fold out any non-paired equity he might have against us. But turn seems pointless if he doesn't fold much.

***IMO***


^^^lol@ IMO

well the way the hand played out i figured ,lemme fire this turn while i still have initiative in the hand. river card was the next best thing i could see so i figured to go for the gold.


river is swewy after re-looking at it but while in hand i thought ,what the heck.



Im following more agggressive lines and they are kind of working out for me for me. Trying not to go too overboard but IMO, the tight solid tag style that i used to crush 2NL isnt really working out for me at 10NL so im trying to see if i can change my game just a tiny bit(up the aggression) , that maybe i could see better results.


roll at 304. was at 220 at some point this morning so im rather pleased.


going to keep grinding this hellhole that they call 10NL and see if i can make anything of it.

thanks blob. And be nice.😛
 
Keith_MM said:
i think i'd prefer to go with half pot bet on flop , half pot on turn and half pot on river. turn we pick up a lot more outs and therefore equity , but not a lot of point bloating the pot too big with K high . even though we hit TP on river some of his range will still have us beaten with flushs that got their or two pairs.


I hear ya keith. good point about not overinflating the pot but i dont think i ever bet half pot. It just looks so weak and most of the time we get floated with all their draws (underpairs for 1 street).


Not really too crazy with the line i took cause its really high variance if i dont hit but. But now and then i follow it.
 
half pot will work just as well as 75% pot as a cbet . If he's going to fold he'll fold regardless , and if he continues and you don't improve you aren't risking as much. He's not paying attention to bet sizing and how it affects your range so against this guy you can be totally unbalanced.
 
Keith_MM said:
half pot will work just as well as 75% pot as a cbet . If he's going to fold he'll fold regardless , and if he continues and you don't improve you aren't risking as much. He's not paying attention to bet sizing and how it affects your range so against this guy you can be totally unbalanced.

+1. I use 1/2 pot a ton for cbet bluffs/semi bluffs
 
I sort of move between 60% and 70% when c-bet / semi bluffing and betting for value as it's hard for villains to distinguish wtf etc. This would be exploitable i'm guessing at higher stakes, but not so much with micros.
 
this guy was a 55/0 thoough , he's not taking notice of bet sizes or putting hero on a range , let alone adjusting hero's range according to bet size, he's just looking at the board and his cards and hitting call with any pair or fold.
 
vinylspiros said:
Oh come on guys. No need to argue. Maybe you can just agree to disagree.

we are all here for the same reason. Exchange of opinions and to learn. No need for the drama.

Blob just stated his opinion figaro. Im sure he didnt intend to offend you or anything.
Hes not angry hes just straightforward. all good man.

Blob is Blunt AF filled with purple kushhhhh 😛 >>> 😱 😎 😱
 
Scourrge said:
High stakes. High tension. Hi Blob. Hi Figaro. Figaroo. Kigaroo. Kangaroo. Use the loo.

I really wish I had an explanation for the above. I am neither drunk nor high (stakes).
LMFAO!!! DEAD!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


Blobweird123 said:
And Scourrge, you're a crackhead...
😱
vinylspiros said:
^^^lol@ IMO

well the way the hand played out i figured ,lemme fire this turn while i still have initiative in the hand. river card was the next best thing i could see so i figured to go for the gold.


river is swewy after re-looking at it but while in hand i thought ,what the heck.



Im following more agggressive lines and they are kind of working out for me for me. Trying not to go too overboard but IMO, the tight solid tag style that i used to crush 2NL isnt really working out for me at 10NL so im trying to see if i can change my game just a tiny bit(up the aggression) , that maybe i could see better results.


roll at 304. was at 220 at some point this morning so im rather pleased.


going to keep grinding this hellhole that they call 10NL and see if i can make anything of it.

thanks blob. And be nice.😛


GOGOGO >>> looking good thread is sounding more positive 😎

ANd a bit entertaining also :biggrin: 😛 :biggrin: just logged in all blazed and had a good laugh. Keep up the good grind V >😎
 
OK, here goes.

Been taking way more aggro lines lately. Trying to see if i can get beter results.

Went on a 8 buy in upswing yesterday due to plays like this.

I know i will be taking alot of heat because i kind of overplayed most of these hands. But would like some opinions as to why not.? It seems to me that when we apply huge pressure on people they often tend to make mistakes.


Are they ok in your guys opinion? Or was i just lucky?


Villains stats : 28/13/0.7

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

MP ($36.50)
CO ($9.34)
Button ($14.89)
SB ($4.63)
Hero (BB) ($11.87)
UTG ($11.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K
club.gif
, Q
heart.gif

2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, Button calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.50, CO calls $1.20, 1 fold, SB calls $1.20

Flop: ($4.80) 3
heart.gif
, Q
diamond.gif
, 2
club.gif
(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.69, CO raises to $7.84 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $4.15

Turn: ($20.48) A
club.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($20.48) K
diamond.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $20.48 | Rake: $1.02

Results below:
Hero had K
club.gif
, Q
heart.gif
(two pair, Kings and Queens).
CO had 8
spade.gif
, 8
club.gif
(one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero won $19.46


Villains stats: 21/14/1.6

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Hero (BB) ($10.61)
UTG ($10.56)
MP ($25.53)
CO ($9.73)
Button ($12.19)
SB ($6.47)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10
heart.gif
, A
club.gif

1 fold, MP raises to $0.30, 1 fold, Button calls $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.25, MP calls $0.95, Button calls $0.95

Flop: ($3.80) 10
diamond.gif
, 7
spade.gif
, 2
diamond.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $2.92, 1 fold, Button calls $2.92

Turn: ($9.64) 4
heart.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $6.44 (All-In), Button calls $6.44

River: ($22.52) J
heart.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $22.52 | Rake: $1.12

Results below:
Button had 3
diamond.gif
, A
diamond.gif
(high card, Ace).
Hero had 10
heart.gif
, A
club.gif
(one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero won $21.40



Villains stats: UNKNOW/probably a fish


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

SB ($14.06)
BB ($18.13)
Hero (UTG) ($10.15)
MP ($20.89)
CO ($4)
Button ($5.01)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J
club.gif
, K
spade.gif

Hero raises to $0.35, MP calls $0.35, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.85) 10
diamond.gif
, 6
diamond.gif
, Q
club.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $0.65, MP calls $0.65

Turn: ($2.15) 9
heart.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $2.17, MP calls $2.17

River: ($6.49) 10
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $6.55, MP calls $6.55

Total pot: $19.59 | Rake: $0.97

Results below:
Hero had J
club.gif
, K
spade.gif
(straight, King high).
MP had Q
spade.gif
, 8
spade.gif
(two pair, Queens and tens).
Outcome: Hero won $18.62


27/12/3.7 45% steal

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (4 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Button ($10)
SB ($10)
Hero (BB) ($10.15)
UTG ($3.60)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4
club.gif
, 10
club.gif

2 folds, SB raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90, SB calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.80) 4
spade.gif
, 8
diamond.gif
, 8
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.80, SB raises to $2.40, Hero calls $1.60

Turn: ($6.60) 7
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $6.70 (All-In), Hero calls $6.70

River: ($20) 4
heart.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $20 | Rake: $1

Results below:
SB had A
diamond.gif
, K
diamond.gif
(two pair, eights and fours).
Hero had 4
club.gif
, 10
club.gif
(full house, fours over eights).
Outcome: Hero won $19
 
Just quickly ....What is the name of the non believer with 88 I want to sit at his tables. I would expect to lose getting it all in on the flop most of the time with just tpgk. The worst I'd expect to see is AQ to be honest.
Two of the other hands show the value of getting the money in on the turn when they stil have drawing chances as there would have been little value once they have missed the river.
KJ hand is a prime example of why not to call raises with garbage like Q8.
On another day you could easily have lost three of these hands to better holdings..4T v AK very lucky.
 
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KQo - don't like - i think its two strong a hand to turn into a bluff. once You 3bet and get called you are shifting their ranges towards a range that hasd you dominated a lot . I.e AQ AK etc. Just call and see a flop then play a small pot with it against their wider ranges. Flop bet is far too big and exemplifies the dominated hand argument. Betting as much as you did you are pot committed and to get shoved over you are going to see AQ or QQ here a lot

ATo - pre probably fine , could have gone a bit larger though 1.40-1.50
flop bet is far too big 1/2 pot would be better , JJ QQ TT are never folding here. Turn bet probably too big as well.

KJo - fold pre - as played flop onwards looks fine

T4s - just fold pre - if you're going to start getting into BvB battles with junk at least have something thats likely to flop well


as a general thought , are you looking at their fold to 3bet stats , fold to resteal would also be helpful. fold to cbet in a 3bet pot is also a handy stat to use in these situations. If you have a guy that calls 3bets a lot and folds to your cbet a lot its a licence to print money. If they don't fold to cbets in the 3bet pots you are going to be in sticky situations a lot when you 3bet and cbet trash .
 
Figaroo2 said:
Just quickly ....What is the name of the non believer with 88 I want to sit at his tables. I would expect to lose getting it all in on the flop most of the time with just tpgk. The worst I'd expect to see is AQ to be honest.
Two of the other hands show the value of getting the money in on the turn when they stil have drawing chances as there would have been little value once they have missed the river.
KJ hand is a prime example of why not to call raises with garbage like Q8.
On another day you could easily have lost three of these hands to better holdings..4T v AK very lucky.


I see what you mean figaro. Usually with hands like this (except the 4T), i would have followed other lines. Would have definitely gone for some pot control maybe or not have 3bet them pre).


I am trying to follow a certain playing style that is made up of some "controlled aggression".

Meaning if we Cbet 50% ,im pretty sure that alot of people read this as weakness.

where as if we Cbet 75% or even 100%, then most of the time they will snap fold any hand that they might have floated. this is my personal opinion and i dont have concrete data to back it up.

Im speaking more from my own perspective so i would imagine that others do the same thing.



Like i would be more willing to call/float a 50% cbet than a 80% cbet if you get my point.

If we meet resistance with no outs or no hand,we then let it go but if we have outs or a hand, i think its easier to get stack in by the river if not the turn.




another thing i wanted to ask. when we, here in the thread, analyze hands, we talk about solid lines and we make our assumptions based on our hand and villains range and we try to narrow it down street by street and try to see how we could get maximum value or lose the least.


But does anyone ever think abouth the fact that in order for our analysis to work, it would be required for villain to be playing with the exact playing style that we are and following the same rules that we are.



If villain doesnt give a rats ass about position or is unaware that UTG opens have to be tighter than Button opens, then doesnt all of our analysis go down the drain only because it cannot be applied because our assumptions are based on rules that are not being followed be a big chunk of the opposition?

Like if we always put someone who is raising UTG on a strong hand just because thats the right thing to do, who is to guarantee that he even knows this.


Where im going with this is that by assigning ranges based on assumptions that certain hands are played in certain spots in a certain way, doesnt that sometimes not allow us to get the maximum value or doesnt it even allow villains to be able to easier read our hand or (unknowingly) manipulate us, because we follow some rules that either they know we know or they dont know in the first place.

I would really like to become a bit more laggy and through this to make it difficult for villains to put me on a range.



what im talking about here are UTG opens with 45 suited etc. It doesnt mean we have to go crazy if we miss but if we do hit, isnt it more likely that we will get paid off "assuming" we play the hand in the right way and know how to extract proper value from it? or not lose more than we will be able to make back next time we do actually hit our hand.


anyone have any thoughts on this?
 
Last edited:
vinylspiros said:
I see what you mean figaro. Usually with hands like this (except the 4T), i would have followed other lines. Would have definitely gone for some pot control maybe or not have 3bet them pre).

There is an element of results orientated thinking going on here. You are taking the fact that you won these hands as validation that it was the right way to play them .Look at Figaroo's last comment though .....
On another day you could easily have lost three of these hands to better holdings..4T v AK very lucky.
you are looking at your hand vs his hand on this flop. WHen you make the 3bet bluff though you are representing your entire 3bet range vs their opening ranges and flatting ranges and seeing how that fares across all flop textures.You should also be considering how your 3bet range fares against their 3bet calling ranges, 4 betting ranges and how your actual hand fares against those ranges. You don't seem to be considering how their continuation ranges are affected by the flop and seem to be in a "i'm going to make it expensive for them and get my chips in whatever " frame of mind regardless of how much actual equity and fold equity you may have against them.
I am trying to follow a certain playing style that is made up of some "controlled aggression".

Meaning if we Cbet 50% ,im pretty sure that alot of people read this as weakness.

where as if we Cbet 75% or even 100%, then most of the time they will snap fold any hand that they might have floated. this is my personal opinion and i dont have concrete data to back it up.

Im speaking more from my own perspective so i would imagine that others do the same thing.
This is so completely backwards . say you have a fish and he opens 40% of pots but only cbets AA so his cbet % is ~1% over a large sample. Do you see him as being weak when he fires his cbet?

How about a different fish who raises every single hand he is dealt and cbets every single flop. so he is running 100/100 with a cbet of 100%. Do you think that he is incredibly strong ....or so full of sh*t that you are willing to stack off with a weaker hand than normal. Most people will be rubbing their hands with glee to get a 100/100 and cbetting 100% on heir table as its a cash machine spewing out money.


Like i would be more willing to call/float a 50% cbet than a 80% cbet if you get my point.
if you hit the flop 33% of the time , the 50% guy is cbet bluffing 17% of the time and the 80% guy is cbet bluffing 47% of the time. I'd rather float the guy bluffing a lot than the guy that more than likely has hit the flop.
If we meet resistance with no outs or no hand,we then let it go but if we have outs or a hand, i think its easier to get stack in by the river if not the turn.
of course because they have a hand they are will ing to stack off with ....they will be folding their junk of=r not barreling at the micros anyway.
another thing i wanted to ask. when we, here in the thread, analyze hands, we talk about solid lines and we make our assumptions based on our hand and villains range and we try to narrow it down street by street and try to see how we could get maximum value or lose the least.

But does anyone ever think abouth the fact that in order for our analysis to work, it would be required for villain to be playing with the exact playing style that we are and following the same rules that we are.

If villain doesnt give a rats ass about position or is unaware that UTG opens have to be tighter than Button opens, then doesnt all of our analysis go down the drain only because it cannot be applied because our assumptions are based on rules that are not being followed be a big chunk of the opposition?

Like if we always put someone who is raising UTG on a strong hand just because thats the right thing to do, who is to guarantee that he even knows this.


Where im going with this is that by assigning ranges based on assumptions that certain hands are played in certain spots in a certain way, doesnt that sometimes not allow us to get the maximum value or doesnt it even allow villains to be able to easier read our hand or (unknowingly) manipulate us, because we follow some rules that either they know we know or they dont know in the first place.

I would really like to become a bit more laggy and through this to make it difficult for villains to put me on a range.



what im talking about here are UTG opens with 45 suited etc. It doesnt mean we have to go crazy if we miss but if we do hit, isnt it more likely that we will get paid off "assuming" we play the hand in the right way and know how to extract proper value from it? or not lose more than we will be able to make back next time we do actually hit our hand.


anyone have any thoughts on this?

you are thinking about this wrongly too. You shouldn't attribute your ranges to villain and vary them by position. You should be looking at villains overall stats and modifying them by your reads to get a likely range for him to play, and then modifying that range according to how positionally aware he is. That is why the more stats and reads you give in a hand , the better the advice is going to be as you will see how people are modifying the ranges they are assigning to people based upon the info available. i.e if you have a read that he chases his flush draws and there are two suited cards on the flop and turn bricks for his flush you can bet bigger and extract more value from him chasing his flush. when he misses his flush on the river that opportunity for extra value from his hand has disappeared.
 
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