*****Vinyl's GonnaCrushDAmicros 6max thread******

[redwards92]

( here im thinking: How many flushes does he have on this turn? Probably not as many as he would like, so i decide to go with it.

I just don't get your reasoning here?

You figure he doesn't have as many flushes as he would like so you decide to go with it ? That just doesn't seem like very logical reasoning to me for shipping that turn.

We don't block any flush combos so he has Adxd and probably tons of other suited broadways(fish love suited QJ KJ KQ etc..) and on top of that some straights get there as well which are unlikely given the action but fish gonna fish.

Obviously it is hard to get away from a set of 8s vs a fish but I think you should probably be thinking beyond "he doesn't have as many flushes as he'd like" before you make your decision here.

Good to see all the great results man keep it up and gl:beer:

edit*
also I find it hard to believe he would have like JJ+ because he probably gets it in on the flop.

 

[vinylspiros]

im prob just ripping 99 pre v a shorty tbh.

88 pre looks good
flop looks good
turn check???? why he has heaps of over pairs with a diamond, he also has smaller sets etc and some flushes/straights etc that we have good equity against.

turn jam is a bit optimistic but i think the turn checks is the action i hate the most

Ok . Here's the way i look at things. whenever we show extreme strength on the flop and get called and then kinda shut down on the turn while pot is already inflated, more than 80% of players,IMO, will barrel turn big ( therefor make mistakes because they read our check as weakness and figure we were bluffing on the flop and they will happily turn their entire range into a bluff. )


Hear me out. Im not saying all the time, but ALOT of the time. If i follow the classic raise flop, barrel turn, they will pick up on the fact that i have a set and i will not get paid. It s just a way i use to confuse them to make mistakes. Not saying i do it all the time,but the times i do do it, it really works.

Here, take alook at this example.


Just played this versus unknown. I show strength on flop and then slow down on turn and kinda act like i dont have much. Look at villain donating to the cause.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

BB ($4.10)
UTG ($10)
Hero (MP) ($10)
CO ($3.15)
Button ($14.53)
SB ($12.23)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A

, 5

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, CO calls $0.35, Button calls $0.35, 1 fold, BB calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.45) 7

, 2

, 9

(4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.11, 1 fold, Button calls $1.11, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.67) 10

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2.56, Hero calls $2.56

River: ($8.79) 6

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.60, Button raises to $9.59, Hero calls $3.38 (All-In)

Total pot: $20.75 | Rake: $1.03

Results below:

Spoiler

Button had 6

, 8

(straight, ten high).
Hero had A

, 5

(flush, Ace high).
Outcome: Hero won $19.72

Do you see the logic? or is it just me being in my own world?

 

[vinylspiros]

And im not saying that turn check is the best play ever,i do understand why we should be barreling turn. I just find that if we take the classic barrel barrel line, its not easy getting payed by worse, esp when our hand is nutted'ish.

 

[Blobweird123]

Vin stop donking dry flops like with JJ on T34r. If your intention is to donk, then just 3b pre so we have initiative.

22 seems ok. As duggs said, I'm betting the river for some Qh hearts to call.

99 im just 4b shoving against his stack unless he's a nit with 3bets.

88 fine up to turn. Why are we checking? Firing turn but prolly as a bet/fold Board is really connected and when he calls flop raise what do we beat now really? We block 78 2pr so really he has a ton of draws and the just got there. And a couple overpairs I guess but they prob just shove flop here.

 

[vinylspiros]

I just don't get your reasoning here?

You figure he doesn't have as many flushes as he would like so you decide to go with it ? That just doesn't seem like very logical reasoning to me for shipping that turn.

We don't block any flush combos so he has Adxd and probably tons of other suited broadways(fish love suited QJ KJ KQ etc..) and on top of that some straights get there as well which are unlikely given the action but fish gonna fish.

Obviously it is hard to get away from a set of 8s vs a fish but I think you should probably be thinking beyond "he doesn't have as many flushes as he'd like" before you make your decision here.

Good to see all the great results man keep it up and gl:beer:

edit*
also I find it hard to believe he would have like JJ+ because he probably gets it in on the flop.

He is a UTG raiser and although he is kinda loose looking, im putting him on some kind of premium pair or high cards just because of the UTG raise.

When i spike top set on the flop, im already mentally commited to the pot.If my top set fell onto a flush draw that made it on the turn, such is life, but i cant really get away from the hand, especially since there are alot of hands that he might be overplaying here because of the line that i took.

And worst case scenario, even if he does have it , i can always improve on river. Just cant get away from hands like this.

 

[Blobweird123]

Vin totallly different with A5 there since we now have the nuts obv

 

[vinylspiros]

Vin totallly different with A5 there since we now have the nuts obv

yea your right. but in reality it is exactly the same thing, only that in the 88 hand we didnt have the nuts, BUT NEITHER DID VILLAIN. But he still overplayed his straight.

In the A5 hand we did. both hands villains had straights that they overplayed on flushy boards, all because we check turn.

thats my point when we check the turn they tend to overplay things a good percentage of the time.

 

[Blobweird123]

yea your right. but in reality it is exactly the same thing, only that in the 88 hand we didnt have the nuts, BUT NEITHER DID VILLAIN. But he still overplayed his straight.

In the A5 hand we did. both hands villains had straights that they overplayed on flushy boards, all because we check turn.

thats my point when we check the turn they tend to overplay things a good percentage of the time.

"But neither did villain" results orientedddddddd

They didnt gii with straights because you checked. They gii with straights because "oooo I has straight, im never folding"

 

[vinylspiros]

"But neither did villain" results orientedddddddd

They didnt gii with straights because you checked. They gii with straights because "oooo I has straight, im never folding"

LOL, ok man. I get your point and your right. I sometimes slowplay good hands to try to be deceptive. Sometimes it backfires sometimes it doesn't.

Thanks for advice though. I totally get where your coming from.

 

[vinylspiros]

On a roll, adding to the roll😛😛😛😛

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

MP ($10.09)
Hero (CO) ($11.98)
Button ($15.76)
SB ($10.34)
BB ($10.51)
UTG ($6.21)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

, A

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, Button calls $0.30, SB raises to $1.30, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, Button calls $1(im flatting here because if i raise again, alarm bells a be ringing and i really need button to come along)

Flop: ($4) 5

, 8

, 8

(3 players)
SB bets $1.30, Hero raises to $2.60, Button calls $2.60, SB raises to $9.04 (All-In), Hero raises to $10.68 (All-In), 1 fold ( im wondering what button had)
Turn: ($24.68) 9

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($24.68) 7

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $24.68 | Rake: $1.23

Results below:

Spoiler

SB had J

, J

(two pair, Jacks and eights).
Hero had A

, A

(two pair, Aces and eights).
Outcome: Hero won $23.45

 

[vinylspiros]

Sick things going on in this world. I guess my line is ok taking into consideration the way the hand played out.

everyones an unknown.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Button ($10.38)
Hero (SB) ($10.10)
BB ($10.41)
UTG ($3.65)
MP ($9.90)
CO ($26.67)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

, J

UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Button raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.05, BB calls $0.95, UTG calls $0.95, Button calls $0.65 ( just thought he was making a move on the limper from the button and stuff but things got wierd fast with all the callers.)

Flop: ($4.20) 5

, Q

, J

(4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Button checks

Turn: ($4.20) 2

(4 players)
Hero bets $1, BB calls $1, 2 folds

River: ($6.20) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3.10, Hero calls $3.10

Total pot: $12.40 | Rake: $0.62

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero had A

, J

(two pair, Aces and Jacks).
BB had 9

, 8

(high card, Ace). Im gonna go light a candle at church to thank god for being there for me.😛
Outcome: Hero won $11.78

 

[vinylspiros]

Ummm, standard? again everyones unknown.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

Button ($10)
SB ($4)
BB ($17.14)
UTG ($11.98)
MP ($9.63)
Hero (CO) ($10)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, K

UTG raises to $0.30, MP raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, 1 fold, SB calls $0.55, 1 fold, UTG raises to $3, MP raises to $9.63 (All-In), 2 folds, UTG calls $6.63

Flop: ($20.56) 2

, 8

, 10

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($20.56) 6

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($20.56) A

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $20.56 | Rake: $1.02

Results below:

Spoiler

UTG had Q

, Q

(one pair, Queens).
MP had A

, A

(three of a kind, Aces).
Outcome: MP won $19.54

 

[BluffMeAllIn]

haha you seem to be hitting the lovely fish lots vin, looking good.

Hows your edge status looking, hit silver to start getting some rakeback yet? I'm sure that will start adding up as a bonus too with volume 😀

 

[duggs]

Both of your opponents had hands we were going to stack regardless, find me 10 examples where someone bet the turn huge and called off with either a weak draw or a pure air all after that line imo

 

[vinylspiros]

haha you seem to be hitting the lovely fish lots vin, looking good.

Hows your edge status looking, hit silver to start getting some rakeback yet? I'm sure that will start adding up as a bonus too with volume 😀

I got silver when i was at 2NL a few weeks ago.

I got like 72 and am going to get gold at 75. think i might be getting it today. The rakeback is pretty awesome yea. Already got like 7$ heading my way for feb 28. Not too bad.😛😛😛

You playing on FTP as well?

 

[vinylspiros]

Both of your opponents had hands we were going to stack regardless, find me 10 examples where someone bet the turn huge and called off with either a weak draw or a pure air all after that line imo

Oh lord. This is gonna be a tough one. Ok ,ill take alook and try to find some examples to back up my mumbo jumbo.

Maybe i can use like a filter where i bet flop and checked turn?

Will look into it a bit later when im done grinding and see what i can dig out. Hope i can back it up with some evidence.

 

[BluffMeAllIn]

I got silver when i was at 2NL a few weeks ago.

I got like 72 and am going to get gold at 75. think i might be getting it today. The rakeback is pretty awesome yea. Already got like 7$ heading my way for feb 28. Not too bad.😛😛😛

You playing on FTP as well?

playing some stt's for a while that bumped me up to silver as well, and with mtops been playing lots of tournies and such. got like 4$ rakeback friday past and any rakeback is +EV lol.

Thinking about pushing a major stt grind over there because just been running so bad on stars since a recent uber downswing after moving strictly up a level and can't seem to get a + session since. It's also a decent change of scenary to switch it up from time to time I find even though my grind plans was always stars it could change.

 

[vinylspiros]

playing some stt's for a while that bumped me up to silver as well, and with mtops been playing lots of tournies and such. got like 4$ rakeback friday past and any rakeback is +EV lol.

Thinking about pushing a major stt grind over there because just been running so bad on stars since a recent uber downswing after moving strictly up a level and can't seem to get a + session since. It's also a decent change of scenary to switch it up from time to time I find even though my grind plans was always stars it could change.

Hey man, i was burning some serious paper on stars. the second i moved to fulltilt, i have been crushing literally. Don't know if its the site or the fact that its a new environment, but im going to say something i never thought id say.

I like fulltilt more than stars. It's soft. graphics are kinda cool and competition isn't too good like they are on stars. But its subjective really. Each to his own ways.


Good luck in whatever you decide to do though. You play any cash?

 

[Rhinelander]

Hey Vinyl... just wanted to say that I totally dig your thread. Been following it since you came back and worked up your way starting with $4. GL!! Very inspiring... Also liked your replies to the hands I posted in January. I am currently taking a break because I have to commit my attention to work till the mid of March. Will be back at the tables after that... Finding it very valuable to step back for a while and just digest this forum...

 

[vinylspiros]

Hey Vinyl... just wanted to say that I totally dig your thread. Been following it since you came back and worked up your way starting with $4. GL!! Very inspiring... Also liked your replies to the hands I posted in January. I am currently taking a break because I have to commit my attention to work till the mid of March. Will be back at the tables after that... Finding it very valuable to step back for a while and just digest this forum...

Hey man, thanks alot. Yea, thread and grind have been going well this month . Been trying to play as solid as possible and see what all those guys saying that the micros are easy were all talking about.

Apparently they are. And I've been playing for quite a while now and havent really seen any consistent progress similar to this.

thnks for following along. Hope we can all pick up a thing or two through analyzing stuff. 😀

 

[vinylspiros]

Day 2 of 10NL looking good. Working my way through this faster than i thought. Hope i dont get jinxed or smthng but i feel like im playing pretty solid. Lets see how it goes.

Kinda feels like im crushing but sample is small(i guess). At least its moving in the right direction though.

 

[BluffMeAllIn]

Hey man, i was burning some serious paper on stars. the second i moved to fulltilt, i have been crushing literally. Don't know if its the site or the fact that its a new environment, but im going to say something i never thought id say.

I like fulltilt more than stars. It's soft. graphics are kinda cool and competition isn't too good like they are on stars. But its subjective really. Each to his own ways.


Good luck in whatever you decide to do though. You play any cash?

Yeah certainly hit tougher competition on stars, but perhaps that is why your now killing it so well on FTP your just above their level at those limits.

I played cash a bit last year, was grinding 2nl, then 5nl some but went on a downswing jump limites chasing loses and busto (my life story playing cash, its what prompted me to look at grinding other areas, and lead to stt's).

I was playing some cash here and there on tilt, bit of 2nl rush doing ok but lost like 7bi one night in some bad beats and trying to bluff knowing I shouldn't, so dropped it again. After that went on a tear in the stt's and popped a 90$ br up to like 400 in about 3 days, dabled in a little 25nl rush and was doing ok, but crashed loosing like 4bi one night so went strictly back to stt's and rebuilt my roll back to the 400ish that it was again, and mainly stt's and mtt's since. Did play a little 10nl rush last night though and was up 2bi after a short 1 table sample while running stt's.

Getting back to working on grinding my way back up on stars again now though, finally had a + session last night for pretty much the 1st time since a big downswing last wednesday night, so hopefully can rebuild the losses and get back on the movin on up track 😀

 

[vinylspiros]

Yeah certainly hit tougher competition on stars, but perhaps that is why your now killing it so well on FTP your just above their level at those limits.

I played cash a bit last year, was grinding 2nl, then 5nl some but went on a downswing jump limites chasing loses and busto (my life story playing cash, its what prompted me to look at grinding other areas, and lead to stt's).

I was playing some cash here and there on tilt, bit of 2nl rush doing ok but lost like 7bi one night in some bad beats and trying to bluff knowing I shouldn't, so dropped it again. After that went on a tear in the stt's and popped a 90$ br up to like 400 in about 3 days, dabled in a little 25nl rush and was doing ok, but crashed loosing like 4bi one night so went strictly back to stt's and rebuilt my roll back to the 400ish that it was again, and mainly stt's and mtt's since. Did play a little 10nl rush last night though and was up 2bi after a short 1 table sample while running stt's.

Getting back to working on grinding my way back up on stars again now though, finally had a + session last night for pretty much the 1st time since a big downswing last wednesday night, so hopefully can rebuild the losses and get back on the movin on up track 😀

I hear you man. thanks for sharing. yea, been there done that. Up down, up down, win some in cash, lose it in tourneys or vice versa.

So at the end of the day i guess, everyone should just play the game they feel they have an edge at. So if you see that STT's is your thing, keep it rolling.

Im going to stick to playing strictly cash games for as long as i can and see if after 2 years of playing online i can finally turn nothing into something.

Only thing that is for sure is, the more effort and behind the scenes analysis we put into our game, the better we become.

I probably spend more time on this forum reading hands analysis than i actually do playing and have seen some major improvements. I guess you cant win unless you sit down and read your ass off .

Lately i have really tried to embrace the info people share and see what exactly they are trying to say and then use it in my game. Its really helped me out.


Good luck man. thanks for posting.

 

[vinylspiros]

line check? there is no other way this hand can be played is there? It really seems like i lost the minimum .



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

SB ($15.73)
BB ($6.11)
Hero (UTG) ($13.70)
MP ($10.09)
CO ($4)
Button ($5.03)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, A

Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Button calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) J

, J

, 4

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.57, Button calls $0.57

Turn: ($1.89) K

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($1.89) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $0.94, Hero calls $0.94

Total pot: $3.77 | Rake: $0.18

Results below:

Spoiler

Button had J

, 10

(three of a kind, Jacks).
Hero had A

, A

(two pair, Aces and Jacks).
Outcome: Button won $3.59

 

[vinylspiros]

check out sizing this guy call on the turn. LOL FD alert versus station=max value

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

Button ($11.50)
SB ($15.66)
BB ($5.89)
UTG ($10)
MP ($18.91)
Hero (CO) ($10.15)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4

, 4

1 fold, MP raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, 2 folds, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.65) 4

, 8

, 9

(3 players)
BB bets $0.20, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.67, 1 fold, MP calls $1.27

Turn: ($4.19) 7

(2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $4.23, MP calls $4.23

River: ($12.65) 8

(2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $4.05 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $12.65 | Rake: $0.63

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show 4

, 4

(full house, fours over eights).
Outcome: Hero won $12.02