Is Card Counting in Blackjack Fair Play or Cheating?

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Some players argue that card counting is simply a smart strategy, not cheating. Others believe it’s unfair and goes against the spirit of the casino rules.
The truth is, it’s not illegal — but casinos can ban players who use it.
What do you think? Is card counting a legitimate skill or a form of cheating?
 
Brigistul said:
What do you think? Is card counting a legitimate skill or a form of cheating?
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No matter how I look at it or think about it, I can't convince myself that it's a form of cheating.

If you can count the cards in your head, not using any kind of device to influence the shuffling or the dealing of the cards, nor changing the denomination of the chips somehow, then you have a skill that you should be free to use.

In poker, if someone reads you right, calls your bluff on the river with A high, having thought about your range and how the hand has been played, should he be considered a cheater?

But, and for good reason, casinos don't like skillful people. They would like to see everyone leaving broke.
 
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najisami said:
No matter how I look at it or think about it, I can't convince myself that it's a form of cheating.

If you can count the cards in your head, not using any kind of device to influence the shuffling or the dealing of the cards, nor changing the denomination of the chips somehow, then you have a skill that you should be free to use.

In poker, if someone reads you right, calls your bluff on the river with A high, having thought about your range and how the hand has been played, should he be considered a cheater?

But, and for good reason, casinos don't like skillful people. They would like to see everyone leaving broke.
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Another correct answer from you! As long as you use your mind and not electronic devices is as correct and appreciated as possible! It can not be said that you cheat but on the contrary: you are a good player and not only that.
 
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For me banning players who are skilled enough they are able to count cards in memory is a ridiculous casinos abuse.
It is like banning poker players because they calculate pot-odds or probability. But in poker they play against other players, no casino - the poker room will have their rake either way, so the do not care.
 
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Mario7 said:
For me banning players who are skilled enough they are able to count cards in memory is a ridiculous casinos abuse.
It is like banning poker players because they calculate pot-odds or probability. But in poker they play against other players, no casino - the poker room will have their rake either way, so the do not care.
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As long as you use your mind and not electronic devices is as correct and appreciated as possible! It can not be said that you cheat but on the contrary: you are a good player and not only that.
 
In my opinion card counting at blackjack is fair if you only use your head and no external devices. Why shouldn't it be fair under those circumstances?
 
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Sunz of Beaches said:
In my opinion card counting at blackjack is fair if you only use your head and no external devices. Why shouldn't it be fair under those circumstances?
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As long as you use your mind and not electronic devices is as correct and appreciated as possible! It can not be said that you cheat but on the contrary: you are a good player and not only that.
 
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Counting cards is not illegal, nor is it unethical. The way the MIT Blackjack team did it raises some ethical issues…there was one player who counted cards, then passed on the info, signaling to another player who would bet big based on the count…the use of a second person means that this is not just a smart player using their brain to win…this is collusion . They would not allow collusion in poker, and it should not be allowed in blackjack.
 
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I think its fair, but I also think its difficult.

Most casinos use a 6 deck shoe and they are very quick to notice when you adjust your bet sizing.

When they see you adjust your sizing they often just shuffle.

If you are successful, with card counting they may say that your play is no longer welcome.
 
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TeUnit said:
I think its fair, but I also think its difficult.

Most casinos use a 6 deck shoe and they are very quick to notice when you adjust your bet sizing.

When they see you adjust your sizing they often just shuffle.

If you are successful, with card counting they may say that your play is no longer welcome.
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That’s where the MIT team escaped detection…they had a person playing low regular bets who was counting cards…they did this at several tables, and they would signal to the designated big bet player when the count was in their favour.
 
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Counting cards is not an easy task it will take some time to learn for most people so i would say it's more of a skill. Not sure if it's fair play but it is differently not cheating.
 
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Brigistul said:
As long as you use your mind and not electronic devices is as correct and appreciated as possible! It can not be said that you cheat but on the contrary: you are a good player and not only that.
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Yes I completly agree with you 100% on that. Its probably not easy to count in this manner anyway so more a sign of a good player than a cheater.
 
riff_raff312 said:
Counting cards is not an easy task it will take some time to learn for most people so i would say it's more of a skill. Not sure if it's fair play but it is differently not cheating.
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Back in 1980, two friends and I practiced for several hours a day on the weekends for two months before our trip to Las Vegas. For a short time, card counting, once you get the hang of it, is not too hard. Counting for several hours required incredible concentration. In actual use in Las Vegas, I would get a headache from a long period of card counting, and I found I had to concentrate so much, I could not talk to other players at the table...that takes away one of the fun aspects of casino gambling...the social part. It was also not worth while when betting $5, increasing to $20 when the count was in your favour. This is meant for big money betting. Today, I would not even try to count at the $15 tables...I'm a sociable guy who enjoys talking to the other players at the table who may come from all over the world, and have some really interesting stories.
 
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^That's a really interesting story regarding card counting. really enjoyed to read and thank you very much for sharing it!!!
 
To me it's very disappointing that governments allow casinos to treat their customers any way they desire , according to their interests , ban people gor nothing . How can they be sure they sb is card counting.... Because he wins more than normal ?? Can sb go to the court of law for this or not ? I guess not . I also hass to believe they card counting was cheating , but now I know what card counting is , it does seem cheating st all , it's just good memory , skills , mathematical calculations
 
I see it more as using a skill than cheating, as long as there’s no device involved. The interesting part is how much concentration it takes to do it for hours.
 
Brigistul said:
Some players argue that card counting is simply a smart strategy, not cheating. Others believe it’s unfair and goes against the spirit of the casino rules.
The truth is, it’s not illegal — but casinos can ban players who use it.
What do you think? Is card counting a legitimate skill or a form of cheating?
Click to expand...
Card counting isnt illegal it's classed as advantage play and casinos can refuse your custome or ban you for using these tactics.

I watch Steve Bridges on YouTube who documents card counting and advantage play to have a small winning edge over casinos it's rather fun.
 
It is a skill as as far as I can tell. It is not illegal, therefore it is not cheating.
 
theStarfish said:
It is a skill as as far as I can tell. It is not illegal, therefore it is not cheating.
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Yes agree its a skill but casinos can and will still ban you for it so it's probably not really worth it in the end but to each their own.
 
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Brigistul said:
Some players argue that card counting is simply a smart strategy, not cheating. Others believe it’s unfair and goes against the spirit of the casino rules.
The truth is, it’s not illegal — but casinos can ban players who use it.
What do you think? Is card counting a legitimate skill or a form of cheating?
Click to expand...
Everything that gives the casino an edge is normal to them, but if a player sees an opportunity in having an edge it is always cheating according to the casino's
 
Card counting is a legitimate skill, not cheating, as long as no devices or cheating methods are used.
Casinos can still ban players for using it.
 
Roller said:
Card counting is a legitimate skill, not cheating, as long as no devices or cheating methods are used.
Casinos can still ban players for using it.
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It does not seem normal to me that this possibility should be forbidden to players because this is part of the players' strategy and I do not consider it cheating! By cheating there must be physical tools!
 
In most Canadian Casinos the house has found a way to make card counting meaningless, they don't use the traditional shoe of 6 decks, instead they use a continuous shoe- that is the played cards are returned to the shoe every couple of hands so in effect there are infinite cards and counting is meaningless. I would think that playing BJ on line would be the same thing not 6 decks but infinite decks.
 
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