Beyond NLHE -January Chat Thread

[nevadanick]

Looks like some hands i've had lately on stud tables when the all-inner
barely has the 1st BB left on the table after a bring-in. ...

What a shameful waste ...

 

[Marginal]

Blowing off steam... caught a boat to the kingdom.

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players

MP: $1.68
CO: $4.12
BTN: $0.10
Hero (SB): $5.02
BB: $2.00
UTG: $9.81

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with T<font color='red'>♦</font> A<font color='red'>♦</font> 8<font color='red'>♦</font> J<font color='black'>♠</font>
UTG calls $0.02, MP calls $0.02, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.06, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.04, MP calls $0.04, BTN calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.26) Q<font color='red'>♦</font> A<font color='black'>♠</font> A<font color='red'>♥</font> (4 players)
Hero bets $0.08, UTG folds, MP folds, BTN calls $0.04 all in

Turn: ($0.34) J<font color='red'>♦</font> (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($0.34) K<font color='red'>♦</font> (2 players - 1 is all in)

-edit-
Oh, and yeah... I posted this knowing fully that some of you soulless poker guardians will not be able to stop yourselves from tearing it up... fold pre blah blah freaking blah... so have fun.

I just want to know what you accomplish by making that raise preflop.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

I just want to know what you accomplish by making that raise preflop.

You do not. You just want to point out my bad play raising that garbage OOP. That's fine. It's the one game people like here more than poker.

This time I accomplish an extra 8 cents in the pot I get to win.

Most times I accomplish an extra 4 cents I get to lose.

I had just accomplished several hours of holdem play and was having a little fun at 2 cent plo.

I won't tell you what you have just accomplished.

 

[nevadanick]

[X] You do not. You just want to point out my bad play raising that garbage OOP. That's fine. [X] :rofl: It's the one game people like here more than poker.

:hahaha: This time I accomplish an extra 8 cents in the pot I get to win.

Most times I accomplish an extra 4 cents I get to lose.

[X] I had just accomplished several hours of holdem play and was having a little fun at 2 cent plo.

[X] I won't tell you what you have just accomplished.

Is this the right forum section for Beyond NLHE HA ... :icon_scra

 

[cAPSLOCK]

I don't know. Is it? I figure any hand posted anywhere is fair game. Seems to be an unwritten rule.

 

[dg1267]

Oh man, so far from what I've read, this thread is gonna be interesting.

How many threads on CC can you find all this different info on non-NLHE games and C9 being his typical self? Not many! Well, except for C9 being his typical self.

But, thankfully, C9 knows what he's talking about. And I'd love to jump in some of the Omaha/8 discussions, Razz, and maybe even some of the stud games. Unfortunately, due to having to reformat my computer due to a nasty virus that I'm almost positive NevadaNick gave me, I've lost all my non-NLHE HH's.

I will jump in here a little later with some questions and hopefully even some answers.

 

[slycbnew]

Hmm, I'm sorta hoping this thread will be used to discuss how to improve our skills at games other than NLHE, there's plenty of discussion on NLHE throughout the forum.

It's kinda ambitious on a number of fronts. For example, we're all playing different games w different goals, so this thread doesn't have a coherent unified theme. Some of us are knowledgable on a number of games, and some of us (me for example) are pretty much pursuing a single game at this point (PLO for me at this time). We're also playing different stakes w different goals - we can see even in the NLHE threads that this makes a difference in the kinds of discussions that occur.

This thread doesn't need to follow my intent, it can evolve into any of a number of things. But I'd really hope that if we see an opportunity to improve that we can point it out without giving offense, and that we can receive suggestions without taking offense. The critical comments here are (imo, believe it or not) a little tame compared to the comments that would be posted in other forums (which is one of the reasons I love CC).

For me personally, I'm looking to improve my game so I can move up in stakes (right now I'm very content to stay at 25plo for a few months, but eventually I'd like to play higher) - so when I post a hand, I'm looking forward to having someone tell me I could have played it better - if I know I played it optimally, I'm not posting it other than as a brag/bad beat/example of an interesting idea.

Not everyone will have the same goals, and that's cool - but I'd really like for us to be able to present and discuss strategy ideas, and hands naturally lend themselves to making points about strategy.

/can't we all just get along post

 

[nevadanick]

I don't know. Is it? I figure any hand posted anywhere is fair game. Seems to be an unwritten rule.

Zooooom.......... :vroam:

Right over your head .... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

But I still like your answer ...

Of course it's the right forum thread ... unless there was separate sections for 'beyond nlhe' games ... <slam dunk>

 

[c9h13no3]

Btw, I'm willing to trade coaching in a stud game for coaching in another game.

Games I want to be coached, in order of preference: LO8, PLO8, PLO, 2-7TD, NLHE 6-max.

All cash games obviously. And please have some proof that you're a winner at these games. Graphs are cool.

 

[nevadanick]

Oh man, so far from what I've read, this thread is gonna be interesting.

How many threads on CC can you find all this different info on non-NLHE games and C9 being his typical self? Not many! Well, except for C9 being his typical self.

But, thankfully, C9 knows what he's talking about. And I'd love to jump in some of the Omaha/8 discussions, Razz, and maybe even some of the stud games. Unfortunately, due to having to reformat my computer due to a nasty virus that I'm almost positive NevadaNick gave me, I've lost all my non-NLHE HH's.

I will jump in here a little later with some questions and hopefully even some answers.

Nope ... if I gave it to 'ya, the non-nlhe hh's would all be there and your nlhe hh's would be shipped ... through a black hole ... :rofl:

 

[dg1267]

Nope ... if I gave it to 'ya, the non-nlhe hh's would all be there and your nlhe hh's would be shipped ... through a black hole ... :rofl:

That's what you everyone!

I'm still working on some questions.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

/can't we all just get along post

I am the problem. Sorry.

I will stop being the problem.

 

[slycbnew]

I am the problem. Sorry.

I will stop being the problem.

Dude, you're not a problem, I always enjoy your posts!

 

[dg1267]

I know the basic, good starting hands in Omaha/08. But what are the good calling hands for a raise from a player that you see as a pretty good player?

I know that may sound like a vague question, but I'm dipping my toes before I jump in here. It's actually been a while since I have played O/08.

 

[skoldpadda]

No Stud 8 love?

A couple of examples (from a session yesterday) of how not to play stud hi-low.

If you play the game, tell me the errors. If you can't find them, you should be studying more imo.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($10/$20), Ante $1.50, Bring-In $3 (converter)

Seat 1: $270
Hero: $376.50
Seat 3: $923.50
Seat 4: $221
Seat 5: $979.50
Seat 6: $205.50
Seat 7: $74.50
Seat 8: $766.50

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T♦___folds
Hero: 2♠ 9♥ 4♦___folds
Seat 3: xx xx A♥___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 2♥___brings-in___calls
Seat 5: xx xx A♦___folds
Seat 6: xx xx A♣___completes
Seat 7: xx xx Q♠___folds
Seat 8: xx xx K♣___calls

4th Street - (4.20 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx 2♥ 5♣___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A♣ 6♠___bets___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K♣ 5♠___raises___raises

5th Street - (8.10 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 2♥ 5♣ 9♣___folds
Seat 6: xx xx A♣ 6♠ 8♠___bets___raises
Seat 8: xx xx K♣ 5♠ 7♦___raises___calls

6th Street - (14.10 BB)

Seat 6: xx xx A♣ 6♠ 8♠ K♦___bets___raises
Seat 8: xx xx K♣ 5♠ 7♦ 8♦___raises___calls

River - (20.10 BB)

Seat 6: xx xx A♣ 6♠ 8♠ K♦ xx___bets
Seat 8: xx xx K♣ 5♠ 7♦ 8♦ xx___calls

Total pot: (22.10 BB - $442)

Results (in white):[color:white]

Total pot $442 | Rake $3

Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.
Seat 6: [As 4s Ac 6s 8s Kd 3s] and won ($439) with HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 8,6,4,3,A
Seat 8: [Ks Kh Kc 5s 7d 8d 9s] - HI: three of a kind, Kings


[/color]

7 Card Stud High-Low ($10/$20), Ante $1.50, Bring-In $3 (converter)

Seat 1: $373
Hero: $278
Seat 3: $849
Seat 4: $60
Seat 5: $948
Seat 6: $340.50
Seat 7: $369
Seat 8: $567.50

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx K♥___folds
Hero: A♠ 5♠ 4♠___calls
Seat 3: xx xx A♣___folds
Seat 4: xx xx Q♥___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 6♠___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 9♣___folds
Seat 7: xx xx K♦___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 4♦___brings-in

4th Street - (1.80 SB)

Hero: A♠ 5♠ 4♠ 9♥___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4♦ K♣___bets

5th Street - (1.90 BB)

Hero: A♠ 5♠ 4♠ 9♥ 7♠___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 4♦ K♣ 6♥___checks___calls

6th Street - (3.90 BB)

Hero: A♠ 5♠ 4♠ 9♥ 7♠ 8♣___bets___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 4♦ K♣ 6♥ T♥___checks___raises___calls

River - (9.90 BB)

Hero: A♠ 5♠ 4♠ 9♥ 7♠ 8♣ 2♠___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 4♦ K♣ 6♥ T♥ xx___checks___calls

Total pot: (11.90 BB - $238)

Results (in white):[color:white]

Total pot $238 | Rake $3

Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.

Seat 8: [Tc 4c 4d Kc 6h Th 3c] - HI: two pair, Tens and Fours


[/color]

 

[skoldpadda]

Bonus points: which seat is the fish?

 

[nevadanick]

I know the basic, good starting hands in Omaha/08. But what are the good calling hands for a raise from a player that you see as a pretty good player?

I know that may sound like a vague question, but I'm dipping my toes before I jump in here. It's actually been a while since I have played O/08.

I think it's a little/lot too vague. Would really need some stakes info, 6 or 9 seat v. mtt, position, etc ... the usual you need for nlhe discussions.

What are you thinking about here ... pf ? post flop? turn/river? Then there's also the hi/lo (O8) factor to consider based on your hand. Are you asking only about hands that might develop into a scoop?

I think you're looking for a general answer, but the parameters are way too undefined to even make a guess. Maybe throw out some specifics... ??

 

[nevadanick]

Bonus points: which seat is the fish?

I'll try to come back later for a little more 'in depth', but 8 is spewing (imo) and is also the huge fish. Seems to be trying to use his stack to bluff bet in the wrong game with the wrong cards showing. Has a classic look of him not at all understanding stud8.

 

[slycbnew]

I'll try to come back later for a little more 'in depth', but 8 is spewing (imo) and is also the huge fish. Seems to be trying to use his stack to bluff bet in the wrong game with the wrong cards showing. Has a classic look of him not at all understanding stud8.

Even if this were stud hi, does his play make sense? Given the up cards he's playing against? For stud8, he's playing hands that can't scoop, I get that, but I'm asking sincerely (I'm not a stud player), does it make sense for him to be raising 6th in either hand?

 

[slycbnew]

I know the basic, good starting hands in Omaha/08. But what are the good calling hands for a raise from a player that you see as a pretty good player?

I know that may sound like a vague question, but I'm dipping my toes before I jump in here. It's actually been a while since I have played O/08.

My calling range in PLO8 isn't a heckuva lot different from my starting hand range. At the stakes I've played (haven't played above 10plo8), most open raises from anywhere except btn are AAxx hands, everything else gets limped (occasional crazy person will raise KKxx hands). Haven't seen a reason to make plays at all in PLO8 at those stakes - make a hand or a really good 2way draw, push, get called by worse, get paid off - I'm sure this'd be different in limit O8 and at higher stakes.

Hoping someone who spends more time on O8 can give better ideas here...

 

[nevadanick]

Even if this were stud hi, does his play make sense? Given the up cards he's playing against? For stud8, he's playing hands that can't scoop, I get that, but I'm asking sincerely (I'm not a stud player), does it make sense for him to be raising 6th in either hand?

Doesn't make any sense to me either way... stud8 or studhi.

No, 6th st raises don't make any sense either. Looks like he's happy to be betting draws and can't fold when they don't hit.

He got lucky in hand 1 with the 3K's but we don't know when he drew them since the site shuffles the cards when displaying the showdown. Hard to fold trips when the flush was well hidden though.

Even seat 6's play on 6th st in the first hand is pretty mariginal for raising, imo, except for his likely having the made lo hand already and raising on the flush draw. That might have been a well calculated raise based on the lack of seeing spades hit the board before the river.

A lot of this is pretty 'iffy' though since we have no other info/reads.

 

[Tygran]

I'm late to the party here I guess lol...missed the thread entirely till recently.

some good discussion in here!

I saw a few things I'd like to comment on but it's late and I'm going to do it later when I have more time!


But a couple quick comments about PLO...

1) Position is super, super important... more so than in hold em even.

2) Most micro players are awful and most are too passive, therefore aggression and reliably repping good hands is important... however you have to watch out cause there are plenty who go nuts with poor holdings (that they think are good holdings.. examples would be a bare nut flush draw, 2 pair with no redraws, bottom set, a non-nut full house/straight/flush) and others than just don't fold anything ever (3 high flush on paired board? No way I'm folding that!)

3) At anything I'd say $50 PLO or below and probably even alot of $100 PLO from what I've seen of it... there are quite a few preflop styles that you can win with (some never 3bet, some 3bet quite often for example)... This is really a postflop game.



I saw somebody say something about NL-Omaha... the very thought of a NL omaha game is making me twitch uncontrollably.... that would just be insanity....

 

[dg1267]

I think it's a little/lot too vague. Would really need some stakes info, 6 or 9 seat v. mtt, position, etc ... the usual you need for nlhe discussions.

What are you thinking about here ... pf ? post flop? turn/river? Then there's also the hi/lo (O8) factor to consider based on your hand. Are you asking only about hands that might develop into a scoop?

I think you're looking for a general answer, but the parameters are way too undefined to even make a guess. Maybe throw out some specifics... ??

In NLHE I dread full ring. I only play 6 max there. But in PLO8 I love full ring due to the number of complete idiots there. I rarely play tournaments, so it's gonna be cash games pretty much and those are in the micro stakes.

I'm talking pre-flop. I'm only gonna be playing hands that have an opportunity to scoop (i.e. AA23, AK23, etc and preferably 2 suited).

Once I get into the flop, turn, river I can can easily spot when I need to let go of my hands. But what I'm wanting to know is, should I be calling with stuff like AJ34 3 suited because they still carry decent potential for a scoop? Or should I toss these and wait for better. In my experience, if they start betting, they don't stop and it's usually an AAxx hand or something like that.

And should I get more liberal with my calling the more callers there are behind the raiser? My thinking there is that if I only catch one end I at least stand to make a little more.

 

[slycbnew]

Quick check, won't bother w the HH.

HORSE MTT, 5 players left - this is microstakes and less than 100 players, even first isn't a big payout, so I don't care about laddering.

I'm the ss w M < 3, stud 8, dealt A23r (A up card) in CO, utg (chip leader) showing an A raises. No other A's, 2's, or 3's are up, though two 4's are up, everything else is higher than an 8. Folds to me.

Fold, call, or raise? I don't have a lot of scoop potential, but I've got to play a hand so I'm reluctant to fold, but I'm not happy calling when it represents such a big chunk of my stack.

 

[Marginal]

I probably just raise tbh, you have to get it in eventually and villain probably plays a lot of lesser low hands here. I just cant fold it and if you only have a few bb left, you cant just call. Even if you are chopping, you still pick up some antes which although small help a lot.