Irexes said:
hmm...you are +EV in MTTs right? So why do you play cash, unless you rarely have a time block open to play MTTs coz of work or (and i suspect it is this) to reduce the variance of MTT play? Still, it seems that it would be a much better idea to grind MTTs or like 180man SNGs rather than only gaining FPPs from cash to buy into MTTs. Just interested on the logic behind it when surely you must make more from MTTs (maybe you 20 table cash and make alot from rakeback, idk). Variance can also be reduced by playing lower buy in weaker field MTTs.
Not trying to make a judgment or anything, but if you are breakeven at nl100 and nl200 over 300k hands then i can't see that going anywhere at all, whereas you seem to be quite a good MTT player.
Everton V United was an ok game but enjoyed penno's alot. Evertons fans were immense + bet the atmosphere was sick!!
GL all in warm up + keep running into rex at the 50NL 50BB min tables 😀
I am starting to really like the 50BB min tables tbh hope I can run goot for the rest of the day AA<AJo + KK<AA was not goot earlier.
GL all in warm up + keep running into rex at the 50NL 50BB min tables 😀
I am starting to really like the 50BB min tables tbh hope I can run goot for the rest of the day AA<AJo + KK<AA was not goot earlier.
feitr said:
Fair question.
1) I make 14000fpps a week (at least) which pays for the warm up or million. I've cashed a fair bit (3k worth so far this year) and had a couple of top 100 finishes and fully plan a final table. If it wasn't for the fpps I'd only play it through sats.
2) I've played a lot of hands in the last year so the 300k isn't all of it. Prior to that I made a few thousand at 50nl and 100nl. The breakeven started with 80k at 200nl then the rest at 100nl. I can now beat up 50nl as well as the next guy and probably 100nl.
3) Yes about the time thing and MTTs
but the real answer,
4) most importantly I'm entirely comfortable with breaking even while I learn to play ring. I think there's a ridiculous rush for people to move up the limits and win mirrions when actually to really beat the game takes time and application. The other risk is burnout, there's a lot of people who do great for a while then crash and burn and quit. When I started playing poker of any sort I said I'd be happy to spend money learning how to play for 5 years. Figuring that it would be a skill worth paying for.
Fortunately I got lucky and won early (and it really was luck, I won 8k in an MTT when I thought overcards were a made hand) and went from there to win decent sums in MTTs but I stand by what I said. This is a game of the long-term, and it's really long.
So while learning ring I've read watched and studied a lot and I've slowly put together a game which I'm sure in the next couple of years will see me consistently winning at 200nl (maybe higher). It took me 3 years to develop an MTT game that I was happy with, I'm not worried about it taking a similar time at ring (as I say it's been a year so far).
In those 300k hands which is the last 6 months(ish) I've tried all sorts of things. I've adopted and discarded many many strategies and come back to some two or three times looking for the right balance. I'm getting closer to a game I'm happy with.
If I was doing the same things now and making the same mistakes I was 300k hands ago I'd agree it's a lost cause, but I've learned and changed a ton. Nothing irritates me more than people who post here that they are losing and don't see that in order to change the results they need to change their behaviour.
The graph was more of an "OMG I HAS THE LONGEST BRAKE EVEN" than a compaint, and I'll be surprised if the next 300k isn't a decent 2/3BB 100, but we'll see.
Anyway that's more than you asked but I was thinking about all this anyway 🙂
Yea i agree with that. If a player continues to study his/her game then i don't think one can ever quantify a "true" winrate. You need 100s thousands of hands to do so in the first place, and by the time you have accumulated that number of hands your game (and the game of others playing your stakes) should have evolved to the point that your current game in relation to general quality of your stakes no longer reflects that of 100k hands ago.
I admire your patience...i've been breakeven for 20k hands and that is absolutely killing me and i know for sure that i would quit if i wasn't making a worthwhile hourly over a very long sample. But, then again, i have different motivations for playing poker and intend to quit in a few years once i get deeper into school/career, as i don't really "like" playing poker all that much, but i can't make as much money doing anything esle and i guess it fills a certain competitive hole. I guess my question was more related to how one can have so much patience and continue to play the same type of game over 300k hands being breakeven. I have no doubt you will be very sucessful in the long run tho.
I admire your patience...i've been breakeven for 20k hands and that is absolutely killing me and i know for sure that i would quit if i wasn't making a worthwhile hourly over a very long sample. But, then again, i have different motivations for playing poker and intend to quit in a few years once i get deeper into school/career, as i don't really "like" playing poker all that much, but i can't make as much money doing anything esle and i guess it fills a certain competitive hole. I guess my question was more related to how one can have so much patience and continue to play the same type of game over 300k hands being breakeven. I have no doubt you will be very sucessful in the long run tho.
omg zach lol that guy called with 65s, what a sick easy double, ur the only one lagging tho maybe its ur isp.
uh oh hes sitting out now.... Seat 2: zachvac (19900 in chips) is sitting out
anyway this is the hand
PokerStars Game #27266626111: Tournament #155221229, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (250/500) - 2009/04/19 14:31:36 ET
Table '155221229 249' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: coronet1 (13900 in chips)
Seat 2: zachvac (9650 in chips)
Seat 3: along666 (37956 in chips)
Seat 4: ArzrA (39321 in chips)
Seat 5: EkMal (16036 in chips)
Seat 6: sywolf777 (6798 in chips)
Seat 7: adam eterno (21930 in chips)
Seat 8: il0v£mYmUmMy (17348 in chips)
Seat 9: yucca 48 (7425 in chips)
coronet1: posts the ante 25
zachvac: posts the ante 25
along666: posts the ante 25
ArzrA: posts the ante 25
EkMal: posts the ante 25
sywolf777: posts the ante 25
adam eterno: posts the ante 25
il0v£mYmUmMy: posts the ante 25
yucca 48: posts the ante 25
along666: posts small blind 250
ArzrA: posts big blind 500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
EkMal: folds
sywolf777: folds
adam eterno: folds
il0v£mYmUmMy: folds
yucca 48: folds
coronet1: folds
zachvac: raises 700 to 1200
along666: calls 950
ArzrA: folds
*** FLOP *** [6s Ac 2s]
along666: checks
zachvac has timed out while being disconnected
zachvac: checks
*** TURN *** [6s Ac 2s] [Td]
along666: checks
zachvac: bets 2000
along666: calls 2000
*** RIVER *** [6s Ac 2s Td] [9h]
along666: checks
zachvac said, "WTF"
along666 said, "len ckoo"
zachvac: bets 6425 and is all-in
along666: calls 6425
*** SHOW DOWN ***
zachvac: shows [Ah Ts] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
along666: shows [6d 5d] (a pair of Sixes)
zachvac collected 19975 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 19975 | Rake 0
Board [6s Ac 2s Td 9h]
Seat 1: coronet1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: zachvac (button) showed [Ah Ts] and won (19975) with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 3: along666 (small blind) showed [6d 5d] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 4: ArzrA (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: EkMal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: sywolf777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: adam eterno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: il0v£mYmUmMy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: yucca 48 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
uh oh hes sitting out now.... Seat 2: zachvac (19900 in chips) is sitting out
anyway this is the hand
PokerStars Game #27266626111: Tournament #155221229, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (250/500) - 2009/04/19 14:31:36 ET
Table '155221229 249' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: coronet1 (13900 in chips)
Seat 2: zachvac (9650 in chips)
Seat 3: along666 (37956 in chips)
Seat 4: ArzrA (39321 in chips)
Seat 5: EkMal (16036 in chips)
Seat 6: sywolf777 (6798 in chips)
Seat 7: adam eterno (21930 in chips)
Seat 8: il0v£mYmUmMy (17348 in chips)
Seat 9: yucca 48 (7425 in chips)
coronet1: posts the ante 25
zachvac: posts the ante 25
along666: posts the ante 25
ArzrA: posts the ante 25
EkMal: posts the ante 25
sywolf777: posts the ante 25
adam eterno: posts the ante 25
il0v£mYmUmMy: posts the ante 25
yucca 48: posts the ante 25
along666: posts small blind 250
ArzrA: posts big blind 500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
EkMal: folds
sywolf777: folds
adam eterno: folds
il0v£mYmUmMy: folds
yucca 48: folds
coronet1: folds
zachvac: raises 700 to 1200
along666: calls 950
ArzrA: folds
*** FLOP *** [6s Ac 2s]
along666: checks
zachvac has timed out while being disconnected
zachvac: checks
*** TURN *** [6s Ac 2s] [Td]
along666: checks
zachvac: bets 2000
along666: calls 2000
*** RIVER *** [6s Ac 2s Td] [9h]
along666: checks
zachvac said, "WTF"
along666 said, "len ckoo"
zachvac: bets 6425 and is all-in
along666: calls 6425
*** SHOW DOWN ***
zachvac: shows [Ah Ts] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
along666: shows [6d 5d] (a pair of Sixes)
zachvac collected 19975 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 19975 | Rake 0
Board [6s Ac 2s Td 9h]
Seat 1: coronet1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: zachvac (button) showed [Ah Ts] and won (19975) with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 3: along666 (small blind) showed [6d 5d] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 4: ArzrA (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: EkMal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: sywolf777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: adam eterno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: il0v£mYmUmMy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: yucca 48 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Irexes said:
To play poker? I'm completely the opposite. I see online poker as almost certainly having a good future for the next few years; however, it is difficult to say beyond that point. So i figure i'll take a year and a bit off once school is done (which i'd do regardless to figure out what i want to do next) and play poker, then play it part time when doing med school/post grad work. Then after that i'd probably quit, as i have no doubt by that stage i won't be able to stand playing anymore. Who knows, as it depends alot on how the quality of players/legality of it all pans out. But for me it is way too iffy an area in which to be basing long term plans, although it may be 100% appropriate for a person in a different situation/mindset.
unlucky much?
PokerStars Game #27267124247: Tournament #155221229, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (300/600) - 2009/04/19 14:44:31 ET
Table '155221229 162' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: AURE0608 (8065 in chips)
Seat 2: d3fault (13125 in chips)
Seat 3: belladonna05 (7932 in chips)
Seat 4: GetItQuietly (15915 in chips)
Seat 5: sporic13 (26573 in chips)
Seat 6: Farhad101 (11072 in chips)
Seat 7: triu (23165 in chips)
Seat 8: fairbanka (21775 in chips)
Seat 9: flipso (17415 in chips)
AURE0608: posts the ante 25
d3fault: posts the ante 25
belladonna05: posts the ante 25
GetItQuietly: posts the ante 25
sporic13: posts the ante 25
Farhad101: posts the ante 25
triu: posts the ante 25
fairbanka: posts the ante 25
flipso: posts the ante 25
GetItQuietly: posts small blind 300
sporic13: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to belladonna05 [Kh Kd]
Farhad101: folds
triu: folds
fairbanka: folds
flipso: folds
AURE0608: folds
flipso said, "fkin luckbox"
d3fault: raises 1200 to 1800
belladonna05: raises 6107 to 7907 and is all-in
GetItQuietly: folds
sporic13: folds
d3fault: calls 6107
*** FLOP *** [Qd Ts Ac]
*** TURN *** [Qd Ts Ac] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [Qd Ts Ac 2d] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
d3fault: shows [Qh Ad] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
belladonna05: shows [Kh Kd] (a pair of Kings)
d3fault collected 16939 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 16939 | Rake 0
Board [Qd Ts Ac 2d 5d]
Seat 1: AURE0608 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: d3fault showed [Qh Ad] and won (16939) with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 3: belladonna05 (button) showed [Kh Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
PokerStars Game #27267124247: Tournament #155221229, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (300/600) - 2009/04/19 14:44:31 ET
Table '155221229 162' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: AURE0608 (8065 in chips)
Seat 2: d3fault (13125 in chips)
Seat 3: belladonna05 (7932 in chips)
Seat 4: GetItQuietly (15915 in chips)
Seat 5: sporic13 (26573 in chips)
Seat 6: Farhad101 (11072 in chips)
Seat 7: triu (23165 in chips)
Seat 8: fairbanka (21775 in chips)
Seat 9: flipso (17415 in chips)
AURE0608: posts the ante 25
d3fault: posts the ante 25
belladonna05: posts the ante 25
GetItQuietly: posts the ante 25
sporic13: posts the ante 25
Farhad101: posts the ante 25
triu: posts the ante 25
fairbanka: posts the ante 25
flipso: posts the ante 25
GetItQuietly: posts small blind 300
sporic13: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to belladonna05 [Kh Kd]
Farhad101: folds
triu: folds
fairbanka: folds
flipso: folds
AURE0608: folds
flipso said, "fkin luckbox"
d3fault: raises 1200 to 1800
belladonna05: raises 6107 to 7907 and is all-in
GetItQuietly: folds
sporic13: folds
d3fault: calls 6107
*** FLOP *** [Qd Ts Ac]
*** TURN *** [Qd Ts Ac] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [Qd Ts Ac 2d] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
d3fault: shows [Qh Ad] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
belladonna05: shows [Kh Kd] (a pair of Kings)
d3fault collected 16939 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 16939 | Rake 0
Board [Qd Ts Ac 2d 5d]
Seat 1: AURE0608 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: d3fault showed [Qh Ad] and won (16939) with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 3: belladonna05 (button) showed [Kh Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
Put in high volume today(atleast high volume for me), whent ok.
Been seeing more and more of Slycbnew at the tables, usualy just stay away cause he is pretty decent and there is plenty of fish at 25nl but to day i sat with him and a huge 79/25/5 drooler, unfortunetly the drooler keeped taking my money, he stacked me 85s>AQs he flopped the flush and i floped TPGK+FD and then he proceeded in valubeting me to death with his 74,92,J5 hands 😱.
Gonna blow of this weeks profits on some tourneys to night, wise me luck 😀.
Been seeing more and more of Slycbnew at the tables, usualy just stay away cause he is pretty decent and there is plenty of fish at 25nl but to day i sat with him and a huge 79/25/5 drooler, unfortunetly the drooler keeped taking my money, he stacked me 85s>AQs he flopped the flush and i floped TPGK+FD and then he proceeded in valubeting me to death with his 74,92,J5 hands 😱.
Gonna blow of this weeks profits on some tourneys to night, wise me luck 😀.
Attachments
feitr said:
I totally see where you coming from, but yep my situation is different (also uk so legality not an issue, or tax)
Other difference is I'm 35 and I've pretty much had one career already. In the next couple of years I either run out of promotion opportunities (I'm second tier atm) or change what I do. A "portfolio career" as they call it might be the thing. Probably some consultancy (ie paid to tell people what they already know but present it in a nice report) some other things I've got lined up and some poker. Poker's paid for holidays and things for the last couple of years, in a few years time I'd like it to be paying the mortgage. I've got no intention of doing much 9 to 5 beyond 45 and want my poker skills to be ready to enjoy it.
I reckon I clock as many hands (and certainly hours) as anyone on here, but the thing is I really, really love the game and enjoy playing it every time I open up some tables. I'm lucky that the money is a bonus.
Ugh, I guess no 25NL tonights. Down 3+BI's already after a number of beauties. This is my favorite. Villain is a reg who I own constantly. Had him tilted after I owned him in a ton of 3-bet pots. Plan works, cards hate me.
Edit : He obv. snapped called this.
--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------
Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
UTG: $13.20 (132 bb)
MP: $9.75 (97.5 bb)
CO: $9.50 (95 bb)
BTN: $12.40 (124 bb)
Hero (SB): $14.30 (143 bb)
BB: $6.80 (68 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with A
Q
3 folds, BTN raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.40, BB folds, BTN raises to $3.10, Hero raises to $14.30 and is all-in, BTN calls $9.30 and is all-in
Flop: ($24.90) 6
T
7
(2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($24.90) 8
(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($24.90) T
(2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $24.90 pot ($1.20 rake)
Hero showed A
Q
(a pair of Tens) and lost (-$12.40 net)
BTN showed 8
K
(two pairs, Tens and Eights) and won $23.70 ($11.30 net)
Edit : He obv. snapped called this.
--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------
Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
UTG: $13.20 (132 bb)
MP: $9.75 (97.5 bb)
CO: $9.50 (95 bb)
BTN: $12.40 (124 bb)
Hero (SB): $14.30 (143 bb)
BB: $6.80 (68 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with A
3 folds, BTN raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.40, BB folds, BTN raises to $3.10, Hero raises to $14.30 and is all-in, BTN calls $9.30 and is all-in
Flop: ($24.90) 6
Turn: ($24.90) 8
River: ($24.90) T
Results: $24.90 pot ($1.20 rake)
Hero showed A
BTN showed 8