I think the point the article is making is that in the situation described you DO have fold equity when min raising. And you don't gain enough extra fold equity by shoving, to make it more profitable a move.
Lets say your bidding for things on an auction site. If you know you can bid $20 for an item and win it 63% of the time, an item worth $25, why would you bid $100?
Lets say your bidding for things on an auction site. If you know you can bid $20 for an item and win it 63% of the time, an item worth $25, why would you bid $100?
Try googling shove fold chart.
The best way to deal with limpers is to raise their limps wider than normal ie if they limp MP raise with your HJ range and do it with 2bbs higher than normal. Chronic limpers also fold to a lot of raises pre-flop.
The best way to deal with limpers is to raise their limps wider than normal ie if they limp MP raise with your HJ range and do it with 2bbs higher than normal. Chronic limpers also fold to a lot of raises pre-flop.
Beautiful posts, I loved reading all the messages, and I will continue to follow the topic for the next messages to come. I especially use push/fold and I've seen a lot of content that guides you to do it. What I think about this is that this is the safe path, but it's not the only one, in poker everything depends and the greatest weapon for the game is your brain (it may also be the biggest pitfall).
If you know that the villain is going to give up more than usual for the mini raise, raise them and give up when he reacts. If you think the villain is going to give up too much for your push, do it
If you know that the villain is going to give up more than usual for the mini raise, raise them and give up when he reacts. If you think the villain is going to give up too much for your push, do it
Interesting discussion, I like Moshman thing, checking it rn.
I would like to add to this. Let's say you have 10bb and got Q2 utg+x. When then button pass through in few hands you'll end up with around 6-7bb (because of antes), costing you almost half of a stack for only few hands more. You can:
a) fold and wait for better opportunity
b) try to push
c) min raise and see the flop.
This is a situation I'm talking about.
I would like to add to this. Let's say you have 10bb and got Q2 utg+x. When then button pass through in few hands you'll end up with around 6-7bb (because of antes), costing you almost half of a stack for only few hands more. You can:
a) fold and wait for better opportunity
b) try to push
c) min raise and see the flop.
This is a situation I'm talking about.
That's still enough for a comeback after all. ☺️D0nk3y Hunt3r said:
I've had this guy folding with 0.1 BBs left on river at my table. Next hand, he's all-in due to ante. Wins. Next hand he gets AA with his 0.3BBs and is back to 1 blind and he made the right calls and exceeded my stack of around 8 BBs just after a few hands. 🤣
Of course you need a lot of luck but what I mean to say is:
Better to shove the right hands as to limp/min raise with hands apart from premium, just because you'll lose 2-3 BBs in the next few hands. 🙂
If you limp and hit a Q, no guarantee to win the hands with 2 as kicker. So you might end up loosing more than just 3 BBs.
And just one more note:
I have been carefully observing any tacticts of short stacks in the tournaments, I was playing and saw a few short stacks limping.
I did not count all the attempts, since that'd be too much work but in most cases, the limpers were raised or shoved at. Forcing them to fold or call.
So why not use your fold equity and make the first move yourself. 🙂
I have been carefully observing any tacticts of short stacks in the tournaments, I was playing and saw a few short stacks limping.
I did not count all the attempts, since that'd be too much work but in most cases, the limpers were raised or shoved at. Forcing them to fold or call.
So why not use your fold equity and make the first move yourself. 🙂
Raise for you fold for any shove? And when i said any, is any, because versus a regular players you gonna be spotted 90% of the time playing like that, tell me a board who anyone call your raise and u feel confortable for any flop with Q2. If you raise with that, and get called, any flop for you is horrible (obvious if u hit some monster is another history, but this happen 5%- of the time..) If you raise 2x and BB defends, any flop for you is horrible, bro, Q2 is not a playable hand in this conditions hahaha i try helps, and i think Andyreas try too, but if u are convincent Q2 are a good play to raise and play a flop with 10 bb's, keep doing hahahaD0nk3y Hunt3r said:
I repeat what i said in another topic, see ANY regular player streaming, and see if he play like u said
Of course you have less fold equity below 10 BBs and definitely have none with 4 BBs anymore due to pot odds. But everything in between depends on your opponents. I've shoved within 4-10 quite a few times and would loved a call but just got folds. 😅D0nk3y Hunt3r said:
That's actually worse than a coin flip, if we assume BB can have any two cards:D0nk3y Hunt3r said:
Oh, you prayge for this flop when get called with 10 BB, and think your opponent don't call you with any pair or overs? or worse if the BB calls and hit all this cards rangeD0nk3y Hunt3r said:
using the example you did on board 337 if you shove the flop, you will get called with all flop hits, and BB hands like 54/63/24/65 because YOU give equity to all these hands by raising with 10 bbs. If you just shove pre-flop, you'd pull in some chips, and keep your tournament life, but after YOU give equity to these weak hands, you might fall out of the tournament for giving those hands equity. (assuming that the BB or whoever calls you has a stack that favors more calls)D0nk3y Hunt3r said:
More than that, i don't know what we can do xDAndyreas said:
I have a question, you play regular mtts or only freerolls?D0nk3y Hunt3r said:
We've reached a dead end when discussing limps in regular tournaments. There it makes sense to mini-raise against nit opponents, as stated in the article. But limping there most likely will not lead to anything good. But!!! Freerolls are a different kind of tournament where players play more passively around the bubble and pay jumps, wanting to build their bankroll, and are often afraid to raise limpers, especially if they know they can sometimes trap against strong hands. So let's continue discussing limps purely in terms of their use in freerolls!
IMO, 2bb raise chases out the sb and invite the bb, if you limp the sb get enough odds as he knows that bb checks a lot of hands behind.
What I've seen so far is that bb reacts to our image, if every orbit I try to steal his blinds with a min-raise he will call more often.
With a normal play from my parts he will call around 1/3 of the time.
What I've seen so far is that bb reacts to our image, if every orbit I try to steal his blinds with a min-raise he will call more often.
With a normal play from my parts he will call around 1/3 of the time.
Then tell what you mean by normal play. After all, we are talking about a stack of 10bb. Does he call all-ins 1/3 of the time? Or do you mean raise over 2BB? But raising 3BB, or even 2.5BB with a 10BB stack is probably not very right, then shoving is definitely better...rastapapolos said: